Worse every day


November 23, 2008, 11:10 AM
This whole "BUY NOW 'Cause Obama Gonna Taka Ju Guns Away" stampede - fostered almost entirely by gun dealers, but also by gun lobbyists and the newspapers has gotten Pure Stupid.

It could be expected that prices on the para-military stuff and handguns would get inflated by that "sky is falling" chorus. They always do. But the braindeadery seems to have spread to everything. :rolleyes:

Lately I've seen junker rimfires "started" on the auction sites for prices equal to what you could buy a decent centerfire last summer. I think many of these are private individuals hoping to make a killing on some old P.O.S. they have and/or pawn shop types trying to do the same. Even more ludicrous is that more than a few nitwits are actually bidding prices for used firearms up well above the full retail prices.:rolleyes:

Another thing to be noticed is that many of the large Internet sellers have become aware of Remngton's current rebate offer and, of course, they have raised their prices so the "rebate" is essentially coming to them instead of the buyer.

Personally, I have the feeling that firearms are going to become quite available at quite lower prices by about next summer.


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November 23, 2008, 11:14 AM
Personally, I have the feeling that firearms are going to become quite available at quite lower prices by about next summer.

I agree. Gun prices at the moment are in a bubble and are not even remotely stable in the kind of economy we're in now. It's weird how in a normal market you lower prices to increase demand, but right now higher prices and higher demand are actually increasing the demand. Seriously, people who never wanted certain kinds of guns now only want them because of the possibility that they won't be able to have them in the future. If it wasn't for the nebulous specter of a ban, these same people wouldn't care less. What's more, a rising tide floats all boats and causes people to clamor for guns that were entirely legal under the previous ban.

November 23, 2008, 11:18 AM
My thoughts exactly. I bought a Marlin 60 in excellent condition for $89 as a practice rifle. My plan is to buy and practice cheap now and buy my nice "battle rifle" in a year or two when they start to flood the market again. At a gun show yesterday ARs that normally would sell for $900 were being sold for $1200. And people were buying them.

November 23, 2008, 11:30 AM
Shawnee I have said the same thing myself on several other threads. I think your dead right. There will be a lot of ARs for sale if the new "messiah" doesn't "fix" the economy and do it quick.

I have been preparing for this time for several years now. If I never bought another round of ammunition or another new gun it wouldn't matter. I have enough supplies socked back to last the rest of my life.

November 23, 2008, 11:33 AM
I don't think it's all the gun dealers fault.

About 80% of the blame should go to the consumers/customers willing to pay the price. Also waiting to the last minute or later to buy what they should have bought months ago. The writing has been on the wall for over a year.

Don't put all the blame on the dealers. The suppliers have raised prices to the dealers who sell to the customers who are willing to pay the inflated prices. This promotes a false shortage which raises prices even higher, and the viscous cyle repeats. Just like gas prices. Excessive demand creates higher prices.

I imagine prices will level off, but I doubt the prices will return to pre-Obama levels.

November 23, 2008, 11:42 AM
"I imagine prices will level off, but I doubt the prices will return to pre-Obama levels."

You might be right, Z71 - but I just bought gas for $1.71 per gallon about a week ago.


November 23, 2008, 11:45 AM
I think the majority of dealers have raised prices to cover the increased costs from their suppliers. That's capitalism. There are a few dealers who are seeing just how much they can ring out of panicked buyers. That's also capitalism. Those same dealers may sell a couple of guns at what a month ago would have been ridiculous prices, but in the long term they will suffer the backlash as demand plummets. And, again, that's capitalism.

November 23, 2008, 12:12 PM
I base that statement on the mighty WASR-10 AKM clone.

I bought a WASR about a year ago, on sale for $329.

My favorite dealer had these normaly at $379. On sale to drum up business and clear out a large stock of these he had bought.

My business partner wanted to buy one too. He waited about a month to go buy one. Dealer was out of stock(a year ago). He soon(the dealer) received more WASR-10's. Price had gone up from the distributor. Price was now $449.

Same with the AR rifles and carbines this dealer had. Sold them all, and price to him from the distributer was higher. Of course he has to charge more.

Gasoline? Yes, the price is falling, will it fall to the $1.29-$1.35 it was before the prices went sky high? I hope so! I don't expect it to, but I sincerely hope so.

The same for guns. People are whacko. Yes, dealers and especially auction sellers are gouging big time. Yet people are paying the prices. Knee jerk reaction by consumers to a predictable market spike.

I suppose there is a good possibility that individuals will lose jobs and sell guns they paid too much for cheaply or cheaper than what they gave. But it won't be on any large scale I bet.

An example might be the bad ice storm we had in central OK. a few years back. Thousands and thousands of generators were sold. Many at highly inflated prices. I myself bought a generator, although I got lucky and bought at a reasonable price.

I had hoped to pick up another generator for a song and a dance after the hub-ub died down, and folks realized that the freekish ice storm was a once in a lifetime deal(I hope it's once in a lifetime!).

Didn't seem to happen on any real scale. True some generators hit the market used, but not at all like I expected! Most of the generators sold now residing in peoples garages, unused, but a comfort against the possibility of that happaning again.

I expect the vast majority of the Obama guns will get stuck in the closet, and won't see the light of day for a long long time.

November 23, 2008, 12:20 PM
"I expect the vast majority of the Obama guns will get stuck in the closet, and won't see the light of day for a long long time."

That's sure a possibility !


November 23, 2008, 12:20 PM
"fostered almost entirely by gun dealers"

Most of the folks I have seen in a panic were that way before they got to the gun dealer.

What cracks me up are those that post about the evil dealers jacking up prices. Supply and demand. Market sets the price. Capitalism 101, ringing any bells? This ain't China and I'm betting that if any of these guys were sitting on a 1000 magazines they were selling, they wouldn't be selling them at 1/4 the going price. Folks that wanted these things should not have waited until the market was in a frenzy.

On the upside, would be a hoot if firearm sales became the driving force behind economic recovery.

Austin, Texas

November 23, 2008, 01:02 PM
"What cracks me up are those that post about the evil dealers jacking up prices."

When half of all statements made by the dealers at gun shows are - "Ya better buy 'em now before Obama gets in there" and when I see their tables full of 20-yr-old ammo all marked at 125% of what the overpriced local hardware store sells new ammo for and they're crying to people about the prices from the distributors have skyrocketed, it isn't difficult to see who is laying out most of the B.S.

What cracks me up is people who post as if gun dealers/traders and pawn shops are knights in shining armor. :D:D:D:rolleyes:


November 23, 2008, 02:04 PM
My gun dealer is a "knight in shing armor"! Where else can I call and the guy will pick the prettiest tiger-striped walnut stock K31 and save it for me to come buy, no extra fee?

Where else would throw in a perfectly good/used Bushmaster AR case when I come and buy another brand AR from him?

Who else will accept the FFL transfer when I buy some rusty piece of junk from Auction Arms?

Where will I find a selection of firearms such as he carrys, or who will gladly order me whichever firearm I might want?

My gun dealer thats who!

No. He ain't cheap. He has plenty of markup on his wares! But I ain't cheap either. and gladly drive by the big stores to get to his family ran gunstore. I pay for service, and he provides it.

Can't get that sort of service from Bass Pro!

I don't buy guns from pawn shops, but rarely attend gunshows anymore. Rarely or never trade off a firearm anymore. I just call my friendly not so local family owned gunstore, and resolve my wants and needs with him.

He is a family man like myself who started his own business, and eventually quit his real job to fulfil his own dreams of self employment, or whatever drove him into the business.

I have watched his little store become a little bit bigger store with more shooting stuff all the time.

I also frequent another family owned gunstore/archery shop, that is also not all that local(no gunstores localy I'm afraid!). They ain't cheap either. Yet I buy guns and gear from both of these family ran businesses. Figuring my money will serve a better cause in their pockets than in some large retailers bank accounts, dribbeled out at minimun wage rates to uninspired employees.

Not sure if thats the right attitude or not, and don't care. I like my small family ran stores and will pay a premium to do business there.

James T Thomas
November 23, 2008, 02:37 PM
Three cheers for Shawnee and the straight forward talk.

Didn't we hear about "increased cost from the supp-liers with fuel prices?
Why then has their not been a cry for investigation as to why all the related costs that remain inflated, when the cost of fuel has decreased?
For example: food prices went up "because of the greater cost of delivering them." And airline transpotation costs, and...

I would not define Capitalism as those who have the capital living in abject fear that they may loose some of their cash, and running here and there finding where they might churn it around to keep it afloat. I don't blame them for attempting to keep what they have, but they do harm in what they are doing. The buying up of everything on the existing market, to create an artificial "shortage," and the accompanying increased price and demand reminds me too much of the Texan brothers who conspired to take over the silver market. Capitalism?

There is another topic here on THR about the infiltration by anti gunners, but take a look at some of the defensive posts here and you might come to the realization that there are quite a few anxious "Capitalists" viewing also.

November 23, 2008, 02:39 PM
I guess it's a calculated risk. Personally, I bought my last semi about 6 months ago and I'm going to bet on the prices going down before I buy any more, (easy to do considering I don't have any money to spend right now). I'll be kicking myself 6 months from now though when I get my annual bonus if there's a ban winding it's way through congress and the prices continue to go up and up with no end in sight.

On the other hand, if prices come back down, then I'll have done well by biding my time.

I think it's a pretty safe bet however that things will get worse over the next four years. The dems have overwhelming majorities in both houses and the most liberal president ever in the WH. Even if no ban ever comes, you can bet your bottom dollar that additional regulations, legal actions and executive orders will make things much tougher for shooters than they are now.

November 23, 2008, 02:46 PM
The new administration will be up to their buttocks in the economic recession. They have the worse deficit in world history to contend with, two losing wars (Iraq and Afganistan), massive number of people not only losing their jobs, but their houses.

That's a lot of unhappy people to deal with.

They would also like to get re elected in 2013.

Going after gun owners will be a losing proposition, like it was for Clinton.

To protect yourself against a bad gun vote in 2014, vote in pro gun democrats. I have heard them called "Blue Dogs".

In the mean time, I am glad I have my guns, cause this is looking to be another Clinton primer scare.

November 23, 2008, 03:01 PM
Hi "Z"....

We agree on patronizing local and family-run businesses. I patronize them all the time even though they are invariably more expensive. But I don't patronize liars and crooks (not counting our government) no matter where they live.


November 23, 2008, 03:12 PM
I envy all of you.

You talk about this magical place called a "Gun Store" where you can go in and their are guns for purchase and ammunition to feed them and ohhh are those magazines and accessories?

I have two hardware stores that can order guns if they so chose. One won't order handguns because Quote "They are too much a hassle."

The other one is run by a woman (not putting down women, just this one) who doesn't know a AK47 from a ball peen hammer. I usually just tell her exactly what I want written down in clear English, and pray she doesn't mess it up(as she's done twice before). To top it all off they have just doubled their transfer price. Ungh.

I have now started the process of getting my own FFL just so I can get what I want and maybe order for some select friends.

BTW Gas is still 4.25/Gal here. I hate Alaska sometimes.

Infidel Cowboy
November 23, 2008, 03:45 PM
I've been planning a purchase for some time now. It's my fault that I haven't done it sooner, and prices have gone up. I knew they would if the election happened the way it did, but financially I couldn't move any faster than I am. While it does tick me off that certain things cost more than they used to, I don't usually buy the cheapest version of anything and planned on paying a premium for what some consider to be a premium product. Now, that premium is even higher.

One of the things I love about this country - no matter who is running it - is that you really can't knock anybody's hustle just because you didn't think of it first. If gun shops are charging more, it's because they have buyers. That's capitalism folks. Just because some of us are on the short end of this particular stick doesn't mean we should change the rules. If you're anything like me, you've adjusted your life to accomodate high gas prices. Well, gas is down so now there's more money for that already overpriced AR! :D

November 23, 2008, 04:00 PM
I hope that you libs that sniff the poop and think it smells like roses are correct, but I don't think so. For one thing, I'm a dealer, but not doing much dealing because the distributors can't supply what my customers want. My FFL comes up for renewal in about 5 months and I think there is as much chance for renewal as for me to sprout wings and fly. (I,ve had it for 18 yrs). Someone mentioned an election in 2013. And I wonder why we have problems! Hello? There is supposed to be an election in 2012, but nothing of significance in 2013, unless someone changed the Constitution--which of course is coming. There may be an election in 2012, but it won't be open and the result will be predetermined. After that, there won't be any more. In a year it will be a near impossibilty to legally purchase a firearm, and in 2 years it won't be legal to pocess one. The firearms, ammo, and components you have you will need for self preservation and food acquisition. It isn't going to be too long before each of us has to pick sides in a blood conflict of survival on these shores. That's where socialism leads, and we're within a year of being in the same state of socialism as was in the USSR in the 60's. We will each have three choices: 1) Comply 2) Serve in a prisoner labor camp 3) Fight. I know my choice. Think your options over very carefully!

The guns you buy today are rather immaterial, high price or low, because they are all on paper (save for personal transactions) and the military police will know right where to go and collect them. I will continue to sell what I can get, at the lowest price I can, but I know that the sales aren't going to accomplish what the buyers hope, i.e. having firearms after the restrictions are applied. Cheers guys! Enjoy it while you can! I'm going out shooting right now.

November 23, 2008, 04:06 PM
That's where socialism leads, and we're within a year of being in the same state of socialism as was in the USSR in the 60's.
I'm not too happy about the direction of the country either, but take off the tinfoil hat. Maybe I'm ignorant but I have more faith in this country than to think your statement could be true. Obama isn't my first choice for president either but I don't think we are a year away from Soviet Russia. America is just reacting against Bush, and if Obama does crazy things, theyll react against him too.

November 23, 2008, 04:07 PM
I wonder if an Executive Order could be used to retroactively void all firearms transfers made in the last few months.

November 23, 2008, 04:11 PM

November 23, 2008, 04:33 PM
It isn't necessary to void all the transfers. They just collect the records and come "visit". That way, they may well find more than just the recent transfers. You guys ever talk to people from eastern Europe that were there anywhere from about 1947 to about 1965? I mean lived there, and saw things with their own eyes? If you can get them to talk, it will open your eyes in a spooky way!

November 23, 2008, 04:42 PM
ShawneeThis whole "BUY NOW 'Cause Obama Gonna Taka Ju Guns Away" stampede - fostered almost entirely by gun dealers, but also by gun lobbyists and the newspapers has gotten Pure Stupid.

reminds me of the Iraq situation.
Saddam said he had WMDs
He had a history of using them
He would not allow inspection...............

so things were changed for him.

Now hussein has said he supports gun control, supports NO handguns, supports NO CCW
and, Hussein has been heavily involved in anti gun legislation both while an Illinois Citize, legislature, and a US Senator.
and, he will not allow any close questioning now about his former statements and actions
and, the dhimmicrat Congress and Senate are anti gun, with a demonstrated course of action against gun ownership.

so why do you think hussein's statements and actions are a joke?

The upswing in prices are a direct result of the shortage of guns and ammunition. Honest and concerned Citizens are, I feel prudently, making purchases that very likely will not be allowed soon after hussein takes office next January.

November 23, 2008, 04:46 PM
Just found this while reading the Sunday paper. The State newspaper, has in the classifieds section, under Firearms.

AK-47 new plus 2 30rd clips, $1200.00 :what:

Am I missing something? :scrutiny:

November 23, 2008, 04:51 PM

And I can't help myself.

This siren sang to me last night, and she's on her way here.


Did I pay too much for it?

All I know is I wanted it, and I bought it.:neener:

November 23, 2008, 04:59 PM
I did notice that after Nov. 4th, every AK and AR-15 on the wall at Show-me-shooters in Claycomo, MO, was gone (I was in two days before hand to see if he'd got my brand of 7.62x39 in). I've also noticed that the price on EVERYTHING, from his cheapest .38 to his best-line Remington 1100 went up (he said its because he thinks this is the last time he'll be able to sell them).

Well, Free-Market works for and against you. But thank God we've never had to endure communism.

November 23, 2008, 04:59 PM
Humor--if you want one, I suggest you buy it and forget the price. It won't have a paper trail to you, and that will soon prove invaluable!

November 23, 2008, 05:07 PM

At $1200.00?

I could rent a boat, dive gear, and topside hottie for that kind of money. :D

And recover all the weapons recently claimed lost in boating accidents. :evil:

November 23, 2008, 05:08 PM
Don't get that 1200 AK. The price will be back down in a few months.

November 23, 2008, 05:14 PM
Humor--I agree, obviously $1200 is WAY out of line, even more--but no paper trail WILL be invaluable shortly. Granted, maybeso not quite that invaluable--yet.

November 23, 2008, 05:18 PM

No, I was just sharing what was in the paper today.

November 23, 2008, 05:29 PM
You are dead on, King! I, too, think a revolution, a bloody one, is shortly forthcoming. I'm not happy over it, but it's so. Remember what Jefferson said? A democracy can't stand without spilling blood--not an exact quote, but close.

November 23, 2008, 06:33 PM
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

I think is what you were thinking of Moosehunt

And because I can't resist.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson

November 23, 2008, 07:21 PM
It's funny how smug some people can be. Everything in Obama's record clearly indicates that he wants to ban AW's. He HAS actively voted against even standard hunting cartridges. He opposes CCW. His VP authorized the biggest gun ban in American history. His COS is violently anti-gun. His SOS's husband signed into law the biggest gun ban in American history. The majority leaders in the house and senate are strongly anti-gun. THOSE ARE FACTS!

Yet, despite all these facts, some people honestly believe that no change for gun rights is on the horizon. That is stunning to me. It's like sleeping with a girl who has aids and a trail of dying boyfriends and saying "That's not going to happen to me...I'm wearing a condom".

If you want to call the gun boom "panic buying" and refer to these buyers as idiots, that's fine. Time will tell. If you think there is nothing coming from the new administration, then I say that is full blown idiocy. The question isn't whether or not a ban is coming. Everyone agree's it is. The question is, how extensive will it be? Maybe you'll be lucky and it will only be guns you don't care about. Then you can say I told you so.

November 23, 2008, 07:28 PM
Someone said earlier it was a calculated risk... I agree. It's as simple as this...

When Obama takes office... six months to a year will pass...

Either NOTHING will happen as far as a new AWB goes, and prices will fall, buyers will get a good deal once more... maybe not as good of a deal as pre-Obama, but then again, as someone else mentioned, gas is down under $2.00 a gallon.

On the other hand... by June, there may be a new, all encompassing AWB broader than the last, with no sunset, to include SKS's, Handguns (period,) autoloading shotguns and rifles of every kind. But, but... "That'll never happen here!" OK. Brits and Aussies said the same thing, now go an interupt their 18 holes to ask them what they think.

So if you dont buy now, fine, thats your option, this is still a free country (for now.) BUT, if a ban happens, dont whine because you never got the chance to buy one. However, if you buy one now, for a piece of mind, dont whine when the prices drop from the $1200 dollars they are running now (gawd!) back down to $800ish.

And dont bash everyone that didnt buy one when the writing was being placed on the wall a year ago, not everyone has nearly a grand to throw down on a "non-essential" item, especially in this day and age.


November 24, 2008, 01:44 AM
Mr. M&PVolk--you are very correct, but indeed, I think you are optomistic! The "ban" is going to apply to much more than future buying--it is going to be a "collect what's out there" type of thing. It likely will come in steps rather than one swell swoop, but in this case, it will come in rapid steps. How else can they impose their total control regime? It's not gun control--it's people control!!!! Get it?

I notice that for the most part, it is the young folks (the majority on this site) who have been educated with altered and false histoty (not their fault, they had no input as to their education choice) that are easily swallowing and accepting this socialistic future. Soros and Obama are betting that us old farts that are left aren't up to any more significant resistance and that they have the young adequately brainwashed. Are they correct???

November 24, 2008, 01:58 AM
Gonna just throw out an idea.... If the economy continues to head down the toilet and no immediate gun bans are enacted I think we could see prices really drop. People will start selling the post election panic purchase guns to cover more basic expenses and all the dealers who are currently scrambling to keep inventory right now will find themselves swamped with stuff that isn't moving so fast anymore.

AK-47 new plus 2 30rd clips, $1200.00

Am I missing something?

Yes, an opportunity to make some $$$$. I'm not particularly interested in selling any of my guns but if I were offered three times what I paid for an AK it would be hard to turn down.

November 24, 2008, 02:18 AM
Your hypothetical thoughts need deeper consideration. The economy will go down. It is just starting to crash! Inside of 12 months you can expect 25% unemployment. There WILL be firearms bans, and actually, the market will be quite stiff, but mostly because it will be an ilicit gun market. I won't be participating in that market, but when .22 shells are worth a dollar apiece, I will have several thousand to deal with.

November 24, 2008, 04:31 AM
i am choking from laughing so hard at the comments on this thread.

November 24, 2008, 06:45 AM
In July I figured that for every thread we had about how hard it will be to buy tactical rifles, the price would go up one penny. So far I'm right on the money.
Talk about a self fulfilling prophesy.

Art Eatman
November 24, 2008, 08:47 AM
This is a bunch more about Polly's Ticks than about rifles...

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