Looking for a 9MM


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Vinny
November 24, 2008, 12:49 AM
1. Fairly accurate at 25+ yards.
2. Easy to clean.
3. Very forgiving of cheap ammo.
4. Great recoil control. In other words, if I double-tap, I'm not going to wonder where the 2nd round went.
5. Reliable even when dirty. Yes, I always clean after a day at the range but I want something reliable and durable in case I'm stuck in a Katrina or LA riot scenario and I don't have the opportunity to clean until I'm out of the area a week later.
6. High capacity (15+).
7. Safety preferred. I wish the Glock 19 had a manual safety.
8. Price range $400-$600 preferred.

I'm basically looking for something to replace my M&P40. This will be a range and disaster gun. The M&P40 will still remain my nightstand gun. I just wanted something in a 9MM. Conceilability is not a factor.

I'm looking at the Glock 19 and the CZ-75B. Yes, I will try them out at the range but I'm asking to find out if there are other guns I should be considering.

Many thx,
Vinny

Disaster gun. I crack myself up. I should be buying a shotgun and a rifle.

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Borch
November 24, 2008, 01:01 AM
One of the 9mm 3rd gen S&W autos would fit that bill easily. I've got a 3913 and it is easily one of my 2 favorite guns. Granted the 3913 doesn't meet your mag capacity specs, but one of the larger 3rd gen 9mm's would, and it would fall easily into your specified price range.

owlhoot
November 24, 2008, 01:03 AM
If those were my criteria, I would choose a CZ75. The Beretta 92 is another option as is the Taurus. Neither fit my hand, but they fit the criteria. The Glock 19 is certainly a viable candidate. The SIG 226 is a great gun though maybe too expensive. A Browning Hi-Power would be an outstanding choice. But the CZ75 is my pick.

Hanafuda
November 24, 2008, 01:48 AM
What is it about your M&P40 that you feel doesn't fit the bill? Have you considered getting another M&P, this time in 9mm? Or how about an aftermarket 9mm barrel (and save your money for ammo, or something you've always considered too expensive)?

With handguns, you kinda need to decide where you belong. (The following is all opinion only - feel free to disagree.) There are the 9mm handguns with manual thumb safeties, and then there are those without. I'm not talking about passive safeties like a grip safety or a trigger safety.

If you want a manual safety, there are 1911's (in 9mm), Hi-Powers, S&W, 92FS, CZ-75B, and some less-trodden stuff like the Sig P210. Some of these are single action only and require carrying cocked & locked, while some others have decockers.

On the other hand, you've got the 'no-safety' types which include almost all of the DA-SA type autos with a decocker, and the 'DAO" Glock/XD/M&P/Kahr and etc. type autos (yes, I know, most of these aren't really DAO), and also all revolvers.

Then you've got wild hairs like H&K USP which can be had either way, and the P7M8 which defies conventional classification (grip-cocking single action).

Anyway, point is ... I'm a believer in being on one side of this fence or the other. When you're all butt-puckered in a self-defense scenario, you either want to be trained for that safety being there, or trained for it not being there. We can convince ourselves that training for different manual of arms can overcome panic and adrenalin, but I prefer handguns that have same set of instructions across the board .... draw, aim, fire. I'm used to revolvers and Glocks so I don't want a manual safety in my way. I'm currently waiting on an M&P 9 myself, to see if it can unseat the Glock for me as it has for some other folks.

Since you already have an M&P, which has no manual safety, I would suggest sticking to that side of the fence, or else committing to the other side.

Again, just my opinion. I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree. It's you that has to decide.

COMPNOR
November 24, 2008, 02:01 AM
XD(M) 9mm holds 19+1.

Vinny
November 24, 2008, 02:05 AM
Hanafuda,
Great point and questions. I love my M&P40 with the mag safety. I'm a bit slow with the followup shot. I also have a PT140Pro which surprisingly has been pretty good and I discovered that I really like the manual thumb safety. My desire for a 9mm is for my own testing purposes. Being new to gun ownership, I'm not quite sure which side of the fence I'm on but I believe owning a 9 will help answer the questions I have even though it's an expensive solution. In a way, I'm doing the same thing you're doing with the M&P 9 in attempting to see if it will unseat the Glock.

Vinny
November 24, 2008, 02:12 AM
Compnor,
The first time I fired a gun was at a gun shop, renting a XD 9. My third pull of the trigger resulted in a FTF (stove pipe?). The M&P 40 felt better. The M&P 9 wasn't available to test. Of course, all of this occurred while I was totally inexperienced and I may have a different viewpoint with the newer XDM9. The reviews I've read did look good.

Hanafuda
November 24, 2008, 02:31 AM
Vinny, FWIW, and again this is just my opinion, .40S&W is a horrible starting point when it comes to centerfire handguns. (I know cuz I did it too - Glock 27 :what: ) I'm no wuss, I'm not typically recoil shy, and I'm not a small man by a long shot ... but I don't mind admitting I do not handle the .40 in polymer pistols as well I wish I could. I can pull off carefully aimed single shots at my own pace all right, but that's not something I expect most bad guys will accomodate. If I had the time and money to run off 500 or more rounds a month like some guys here do, perhaps I'd get there. But my wallet won't allow it, so the nine is fine.

JohnnyOrygun
November 24, 2008, 02:55 AM
How about a Cougar, they are very accurate, feed everything, recoil is lessened or at least different due to action type, 15 rnd mag, safety/decocker, and well within your budget, maybe even a little less... I paid ~$380.00 for mine and I love it. It's a great gun and terrific bargain. IMHO
Johnny Orygun

Farnorthdan
November 24, 2008, 01:53 PM
The CZ75B is a good choice, very accurate, fits the hand like a glove and extremely easy to field strip and clean. Another one you might consider is the Ruger SR9 (17+1), great shooter, eats anything, field strips in a snap and has adjustable rear sight....

DS

ZeBool
November 24, 2008, 02:43 PM
XD9. Very nice handgun that isn't overly expensive.

Furncliff
November 24, 2008, 04:39 PM
CZ... the b model is a well proven design and would fit your needs perfectly. If you happen across the PCR buy it.

RochPersDef
November 24, 2008, 04:57 PM
I just looked at a baby Eagle polymer frame......shhheeiiiit. That thing felt nice in my hand. very close to the CZ models.

If only I could get one in a high/standard cap rather than the 10 round handicapped mag.....

PX15
November 24, 2008, 05:10 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_9936_01.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_9940.jpg



JMOfartO:

S&W 6906 w/S&W "grip+2" mag extender.. 15+1 capacity.
The top photo above show the 6906 w/15rd 5906 mag, and the second photo shows the 6906 w/the factory issued 12rd mag.

Surprisingly, I prefer the "feel" of the 6906 with the 5906 mags over the factory 12rd'ers.

Just another choice.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

boldkharma
November 24, 2008, 05:13 PM
Beretta 92

cdiaz6000
November 24, 2008, 05:24 PM
M&P9

DrewH
November 24, 2008, 05:28 PM
Assuming you like the M&P in .40 outside the calibre, I would get an M&P in 9mm. That way you could directly compare the recoil and handling of the calibre in the same size gun.

jocko
November 24, 2008, 05:33 PM
cw9 AROUND $419, super handgun


Kahr PM9, Around $525, super lite, super small and yes goes bang every time.

Now ifyou want to waist band carry, there are literally dozens of great 9's out there, including the Kahr K9.

Walkalong
November 24, 2008, 06:38 PM
XD

or a used steel S&W would be a good buy. They never got the love, me included, but are very good guns and sell very reasonable on the used market.

Vinny
November 25, 2008, 03:29 AM
Meh! I'm going to have to drop $150 at the range and just spend an afternoon shooting a bunch of rentals. Too bad the test fee doesn't get applied to the purchase.

Thx for the feedbacks.

bikerdoc
November 25, 2008, 05:58 AM
I cant tell you what to do but I can tell you I am well satisfied with the CZ75 and the taurus 92. what ever you get practice, practice, then practice somemore. Oh ya and keep it clean.

RX-178
November 25, 2008, 06:15 AM
IF this is something you intend on ever carrying, even if only in a SHTF situation:

KEEP IN MIND YOU WILL NEED TO GET A HOLSTER TO FIT THE WEAPON.

I consider myself a gun & gear collector. I have been BURNED by the lack of holster selection on the weapons I have chosen (specifically my USP45 Tactical and Kel-Tec PF-9). I ended up having to buy the expensive made-to-order holsters from Comp-Tac and Blade-Tech for them.

In retrospect, I think it was for the best, since I can comfortably carry my weapon(s) of choice now, and these are pretty darn high quality holsters.

But if you don't HAVE a weapon of choice yet, it might be a good idea to consider your carrying options beforehand.

jlh26oo
November 25, 2008, 06:41 AM
1. Fairly accurate at 25+ yards.
2. Easy to clean.
3. Very forgiving of cheap ammo.
4. Great recoil control. In other words, if I double-tap, I'm not going to wonder where the 2nd round went.
5. Reliable even when dirty. Yes, I always clean after a day at the range but I want something reliable and durable in case I'm stuck in a Katrina or LA riot scenario and I don't have the opportunity to clean until I'm out of the area a week later.
6. High capacity (15+).
7. Safety preferred. I wish the Glock 19 had a manual safety.--> (or try the similar austrian striker fired Steyr M9 w/M.S.)
8. Price range $400-$600 preferred.

Some 9mm's available with a M.S. and at least 15 +1:
-H.K.'s (U.S.P. in V-1)
-F.N. (F.N.P. 9)
-C.Z. (75/85B S.A.)
-Steyr M9 (w/M.S.)
-S&W full size metal frames (910)
-Berettas (92, PX4, 90-two etc)
-double stack "1911's" (Para, S.T.I. etc)
-Taurus (92, 7-11's and Millenium Falcons L.O.L.)


I would recommend an H.K. Or the GLOCK if you decide you can live w/o the manual safety, in which case your options also open up to D.A./S.A.'s like Sig (note that SigPro or P250 do meet your capacity requirements). I am also not entirely comfortable carrying the GLOCK "safe-action" trigger as-is, but a GLOCK in 9mm might be a great choice for you since you are O.K. with the M&P trigger. Everything you describe regarding durability and reliability under extreme conditions (I.E. running dirty or dry), toughest finish, and while not everyone loves the ergonomics (not my favorite), there is no denying its trigger, fast reset, and low bore axis help get you back on picture fast, if it's follow-up shots you seek to improve.

It also sounds like you like your M&P, but just want a manual safety on it and chambered in a less snappy caliber than .40 S&W. So not an official recommendation per your criteria, but I'll just point out the M&P is available with a thumb safety in .45 A.C.P. Of course only 10 +1 rounds. If you relaxed the capacity requirement, there'd be a ton more options anyways.

jocko
November 25, 2008, 07:23 AM
If you stated you liked the glock but wish it had a safety, just go to SIDERLOCK.COM andl ook at that drop in safety for your glock. IMO one of the finest safety systems ever made, still used the glock SAS trigger but this is a all steel machined drop in trigger with a safety where it belongs.

I have one on my sons G19 and it is awsome. Alot of people feel uncomfortable with the glock SAS which is really safe it you keep you finger in your nose and not on the trigger but I do also understand.

There is a cure for those wanting a glock and a safety other than what glock offers. The siderlock required zero MODIFICATION. Take it back out and reinstall the glock trigger and you are back to first base again.

natural marksman
November 25, 2008, 07:31 AM
In Tasmania, the cops carry Glock 17's with an M1911-style safety switch. Of course, they come with 10-round magazines, but maybe the gun can still load the traditional Glock 17 17-round mags? I don't know how you'd get one...

Quoheleth
November 25, 2008, 07:40 AM
[QUOTE]Have you considered getting another M&P, this time in 9mm? QUOTE]

+1

If you've got the MP40, it's a natural choice to go to the MP9 - you know the weapon, and if you buy one holster it should fit both weapons.

ALso, try different backstraps. I have small hands. I thought I needed the small grip, but the pistol was moving all over the place when I shot (the 9, mind you). I switched to the medium, then the large. The large fills in the gaps that had been under my palm. Now, I have a palm-filling grip so I have a good grip with all my hand instead of just on front & back straps.

I'm fully comfortable without an external, manual safety. If the bad stuff ever happens, it's also one less thing for my brain to have to remember to do.

Q

Matrix187
November 25, 2008, 10:13 AM
Cz 75 or browning hi power. They are the two best 9mm designs IMO :)

Racinbob
November 25, 2008, 11:55 AM
Nobody has mentioned the Ruger SR9. Reasonable price, two 17 round mags and eats everything I feed it. Now that the trigger is getting better I can't find a thing not to like about it. The M&P is right there as well.

KBintheSLC
November 25, 2008, 06:16 PM
7. Safety preferred. I wish the Glock 19 had a manual safety.

If you can learn to keep your finger off the trigger, Glocks are very safe guns. I would highly recommend one. I have 3 of them... G26, G34, G20. All of them are superb in virtually every aspect of "things that make a good gun".

mavracer
November 25, 2008, 07:39 PM
CZ nuf-said
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/P9190149.jpg

f4t9r
November 25, 2008, 07:47 PM
My first choice would be SIG P226 then a CZ 75

armoredman
November 25, 2008, 07:57 PM
Oddly enough...http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=408792

A CZ-75 for sale, $400. No, I don't know the seller, sorry, just happened to notice that.

Yes, I'd reccomend the CZ-75, made to be carried cocked and locked or hammer down, as you prefer, 16 round mag, 25 round ones available, almost all major manufacturers make holsters for it, mags available, good solid time tested design.
To be fair, yes, there is a frame mounted aftermarket safety for the Glock, never tried one, they tell me it works quite well.

GLOOB
November 25, 2008, 09:22 PM
You never mentioned anything about concealed carry. So how come 3 people specifically recommend the G19 (not the G17), and only one person mentions the 92FS?

If the quick followup part is more important the ability to conceal, pick up a 92FS to try out. It's one of the softest shooting pistols around. It's the only pistol I've gotten warnings from the range officers about "no rapidfire" several times when I didn't even realize I was doing it.

COMPNOR
November 25, 2008, 11:28 PM
mavracer:

It'd be more impressive if we knew the range and number of rounds used.

.357 magnum
November 25, 2008, 11:35 PM
Well Vinny I am in the market for a New 9mm also. The XD M is the one I am buying. [I already own a SW-MP full size 9mm] The M version of the XD has Much Better Ergonomics then the Regular XD's. [I have owned three XD .45's, still have one] The XD M also has a Match Grade Barrel and 19 round Mags. As soon as My local Cabela's Guy can get me one with a stainless slide I will own one. By the way, my second choice would be the SW-MP. If you want a less expensive gun, but very High Quality. Get the Taurus 917SS-20 9mm. This is the Stainless 4 Inch Version of the Berreta 92 imitation. Very reliable, accurate and has two 20 Rd mags. [Can ya tell I Love Hi-Cap Mags ? :evil:] Good luck in your Search!

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

Luis Leon
November 26, 2008, 12:46 AM
Vinny,

I had a G19, then bought a CZ75 P01, sold the G19, got a CZ75b, then a CZ75bd, and finally the Kadet Kit. The CZ75b is my IDPA gun, it is incredibly accurate, absorbs 9mm recoil nicely and run and runs and runs. I am not the most fastidious about cleaning, and I have let it run many many rounds between cleanings. The only negative for me with the CZ75b is, that I shoot it so well I have no interest in other pistols, oh, and it fits my hand like a glove. Good luck with your decision.

best regards,

Luis Leon

Vinny
November 26, 2008, 03:33 AM
Dang. I love this site. I'll have to print this thread out, take it to the gun shop, and tell the guy across the counter that today we're going to try thread #26.

Thx for the enormous support and suggestions.

GregGry
November 26, 2008, 03:40 AM
You have to go out and hold a CZ 75 sp-01. Everyone that I have ever let hold it has said "wow, that feel nice". Seriously, you will probably have feelings of pleasure while you hold it, almost like it massages your hand. :D

jocko
November 26, 2008, 07:27 AM
guns listed are just super handguns. What a decision to have to make,CZ/s. Glocks, HK's.


Not one can be pocket carried. That is the only criteria that I set when buying. I have a G19, M&P9, K9, all super range/home guns. Wouldnt trade one for the other.

I don't want to special dress to carry. Have carried for 46 years, mostly all in front pocket jeans.

My J frames disappeared in my pants pocket and my now 24/7 carry Kahr PM9 does the same.

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