Kopel on Eric Holder, Obama's pick for AG


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alan
November 24, 2008, 07:37 PM
From what I've read of Kopel on Gun Control and The Second Amendment, he is on our side. It would appear, from the following evaluation and comments that Mr. Holder isn't. Might this appointment be a good look in at what Obama's view of gun rights and The Second Amendment are? If it is, trouble can be seen on the horizon. One also wonders re what might be expected from Obama's administration. Rham Emmanuel, might I note in passing, is no friend to gun rights, gun owners and or The Second Amendment. He is Obama's Chief of Staff.



Friday, November 21, 2008
Obama's Second Amendment - Eric Holder

David Kopel puts together an excellent description of Eric Holder with regards to gun control. If Obama thinks this is a convincing move to support his claim that he supports the second amendment, I think we can continue to believe him a liar, or at least a politician, which is about the same thing.

As Deputy Attorney General, Holder was a strong supporter of restrictive gun control. He advocated federal licensing of handgun owners, a three day waiting period on handgun sales, rationing handgun sales to no more than one per month, banning possession of handguns and so-called "assault weapons" (cosmetically incorrect guns) by anyone under age of 21, a gun show restriction bill that would have given the federal government the power to shut down all gun shows, national gun registration, and mandatory prison sentences for trivial offenses (e.g., giving your son an heirloom handgun for Christmas, if he were two weeks shy of his 21st birthday). He also promoted the factoid that "Every day that goes by, about 12, 13 more children in this country die from gun violence"--a statistic is true only if one counts 18-year-old gangsters who shoot each other as "children."(Sources: Holder testimony before House Judiciary Committee, Subcommitee on Crime, May 27,1999; Holder Weekly Briefing, May 20, 2000. One of the bills that Holder endorsed is detailed in my 1999 Issue Paper "Unfair and Unconstitutional.")

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Coronach
November 24, 2008, 08:12 PM
Might this appointment be a good look in at what Obama's view of gun rights and The Second Amendment are?If you can't discern Obama's views on guns from his voting record and previous comments, nothing else is going to stand any chance of informing you. The only question is just how much he will attempt to do.

Mike

ants
November 24, 2008, 08:26 PM
"Every day that goes by, about 12, 13 more children in this country die from gun violence"
Liar. According to the Department of Justice Criminal Justice Information Services Division annual report for 2006, there were 1539 murder victims 18 and younger during that entire calendar year. Not just gun deaths, but ALL murders. Divide that by 365 and there were only 4 per day, not '12 or 13 children in this country die from gun violence' every day. That is an unfortunate lie.

But I'll bet 80% of Americans believed it. Human beings are such a stupidly naive people sometimes.

ClemY
November 24, 2008, 08:59 PM
My understanding was that the figure of 12 or so came from something that included gang bangers killing each other with victims to the age of at least 22.

Gunnerpalace
November 24, 2008, 09:06 PM
Short summary of the short summary: The next 4 years are gonna suck.

Beagle-zebub
November 25, 2008, 02:07 AM
What's that .mil saying? BOHICA!

Igloodude
November 25, 2008, 09:24 AM
Ants, my understanding of the mindset is that "gun violence" includes suicides and accidents, as well as murders. And yeah, people who can legally drink alcohol are still "children" according to that same mindset (or they parrot the statistics without realizing how broadly the net is cast for those numbers).

alan
November 25, 2008, 01:16 PM
Coronach Quote:
Might this appointment be a good look in at what Obama's view of gun rights and The Second Amendment are?

If you can't discern Obama's views on guns from his voting record and previous comments, nothing else is going to stand any chance of informing you. The only question is just how much he will attempt to do.

Mike

Mike:

I had long since discerned Obama's views on The Second Amendment, and civil rights, the INDIVIDUAL right to Keep and Bear Arms being one such. Seems as if a significant number of others hadn't. Of course, the issue was more than a little muddied by the wreckage of the nations economy, a by-product of the Bush and Clinton years, which could serve as a "starting point" for additional inquiry.

Re your last, I think the following is also germane. How much will the people of this nation tolerate? I have, by the way, no answer to that question.

razorback2003
November 26, 2008, 09:46 PM
Obama can't fix the economy no more than he can make gun rights any better. Bush was our best shot with keeping gun dealers and manufacturers from being sued in frivilous lawsuits, getting Tom DeLay to prevent the 'Assault' Weapon ban from coming to a floor vote. I am glad we had Bush for 8 years...it is nice not paying outragous prices for magazines that hold more than ten rounds. What a joke that 1994-2004 law was.

subknave
November 27, 2008, 02:44 PM
Don't these people realize that all this does (AWB, etc.) is fill our prisons with otherwise law abising criminals. On the ATF site they have some statistics from 2007 gun trace data. If you look at states with severe restrictions, CA, NY, IL. usually more than half of the gun traces were for the heinous crime of gun possession. other states it is usually a much lower percentage. In CA possession, firearm under investigation (?), and weapons violations were about 2/3 of all gun traces. Washington was one of the better states but D.C. might be the worst with 1200 out of 1750 gun traces were for those types of offences.

Autopistola
November 27, 2008, 11:57 PM
Look around at Gunbroker or pawn shops...it's not hard to find a bubba'd SKS in violation of 922r. Owners, sellers, law enforcement, and probably the BATFE are either ignorant of 922r or just don't give a hoot.

You know who does take it seriously? Most of the people on gun forums. They nitpick, count parts, and bother to point out others violations.

There, I just had to get that off my chest. It's a silly law anyways.

I think that the BATFE wouldn't aggressively check anyways, unless you were already in some deep doo-doo and they needed some leverage.

I have a theory that gunnies like you and me actually take more steps to be lawful and responsible because we really, really want to keep our RKBA.

hayes1966
November 28, 2008, 12:55 AM
The 922 law is a joke. I doubt the ATF know the part counts for the various rifles out there let alone where the parts were made.

mordechaianiliewicz
November 28, 2008, 12:59 AM
All we have from Obama is quotes about guns, and a little rather minor activity in IL and I think ONE vote in his time in our Legislature. He did his best to shut up about guns once he was in the Presidential running.

Mr. Obama's actions (including the AG) pick tell me one of two things:

1.) He shut up about guns because he will do everything in his power to wreck the 2A he can.

2.) He shut up about the guns issue because he thinks it's a non-starter politically, and has much bigger fish to fry anyway.

There just is no way of knowing from the vague answers he's given, and the record he's built.

The AG has many duties besides just guns. Now, from a perspective of civil liberties, enforcement, and guns, Holder looks bad. He was basically Reno's right hand. He will do about all in his power that he can to make things tough for us, and will attempt a slice of bread approach. No one is a big fan of the Branch Davidians, but ultimately, they weren't actually engaged in any proven illegal activities. And, the government more or less covered up a massacre.

Holder will attempt to attack fringe groups who aren't provably doing anything wrong while in his tenure as AG. And, he will give the FBI and BATFE more or less a free reign. Many of us look at the 922r regs and try to keep in step when I've not heard of a single case of 922r enforcement. With this guy in, I'd be crossing every "t" and dotting every "i".

Fleetwood_Captain
November 28, 2008, 02:05 AM
Oh please, Obama already stated that he is against "assault weapons" during his debates with Alan Keyes in his run for senate.

The only thing the upcoming administration will understand is a show of numbers. The recent press coverage regarding sales booms of "assault weapons" is a great start. An increase in memberships of PRO-gun lobbying organizations is the next step.

ArmedBear
November 28, 2008, 09:03 AM
Hey, a heartfelt thanks to all the anti-Bush civil libertarians who voted for Obama.:mad:

Now we have a return of the Janet Reno regime. Wonderful.

esq_stu
November 28, 2008, 10:07 AM
"If Obama thinks this is a convincing move to support his claim that he supports the second amendment, I think we can continue to believe him a liar, or at least a politician, which is about the same thing."

To anyone that believed anything BHO said during his presidential campaign, let me remind you that many many statements he made were the opposite of those made as a state legislator and senator. He changed his position on most things that he said to suck up to the audience of the moment. If you still believe anything he said after that reminder:uhoh:, get help now.

Art Eatman
November 28, 2008, 11:41 AM
Sorry, far more political than legal.

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