High brass 12 guage shells


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wacki
November 25, 2008, 02:52 AM
I've been told that shotgun hulls with high brass walls are good for 00 buck and heavy powder loads. The rumor is that the powder can't go only as high as the brass. Is this true? If so where can you get high brass 12 gauge hulls for reloading?

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ReloaderFred
November 25, 2008, 03:47 AM
The brass is for the extractor to grab, and doesn't do anything for the strength of the case. I have 00 buck rounds that were loaded in low brass hulls from the Winchester factory and they worked just fine.

Get the Lyman Shotshell Manual and it will tell you what hulls to use, along with the proper wads, powder, etc. Loading buckshot isn't like loading birdshot. It's done by the count of the pellets and not the weight. The manual will explain it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

sargenv
November 25, 2008, 12:10 PM
The brass is there for mostly show anyway.. (and some would say positive extraction). There were at least three attempts at making an all plastic hull. Winchester made a small run of AA's in all plastic with no brass that I've seen pictures of.. Activ made ammunition and component hulls for a long time and I still have some of them. There was another company that also made an all plastic hull, but I can't remember the name of them. It was a light brown colored hull. The Activs sold pretty well and were reloadable.. They had a lot of internal capacity.

The Tall brass base was mostly a marketing ploy to make you think they were more powerful.. in most cases though, they were only brass or nickel plated steel bases. If they sat wet for too long, they would rust.

rcmodel
November 25, 2008, 01:55 PM
I've been told that shotgun hulls with high brass walls are good for 00 buck and heavy powder loads. As already noted, the "brass height" has absolutely nothing at all to do with it.

You can have low brass hulls that hold more powder then high brass hulls with thick base wads inside them.

What matters is the wad column and shot payload.

If there is load data published, and wads made for the low-brass hull in question, you can load magnum loads in them.

If there are no published loads or wads made for a particular high-brass hull, you can't.

rcmodel

snuffy
November 25, 2008, 02:38 PM
The high brass at one time served a purpose. Longer ago than most here have been alive.

Back when there were paper tubed shells, the powder could burn through the paper if the area of the powder charge were NOT covered by the brass base. Enough so, that the bolts extractor would only extract the brass, leaving the paper tube still in the chamber.

Not much of a problem for the original firing, but when reloaded, they would separate enough to not be usable again. I saw this happen a lot, when the paper shells were used for trap shooting. The low brass shells had pin-holes develope just ahead of the brass. If reloaded with pin holes, the next firing resulted in just the brass being ejected.:what::cuss::banghead:

Galil5.56
November 25, 2008, 02:55 PM
....

Bboomer
November 25, 2008, 08:27 PM
I've been told that shotgun hulls with high brass walls are good for 00 buck and heavy powder loads. The rumor is that the powder can't go only as high as the brass. Is this true? If so where can you get high brass 12 gauge hulls for reloading?

Thats what I had always heard until I got envolved in reloading.

Low Brass vs High = no difference except $$$

If you do reload spent Hulls, yo DO need to seriously look at the Base Wad construction.

ants
November 25, 2008, 09:10 PM
Ding, ding, ding, ding!!!

Snuffy wins!

It's all about the old paper hull. When we reloaded them, first we had to inspect around the top of the brass for burnt-through pinholes. The higher the brass, the longer they would last before burning pinholes.

Longer ago than most here have been alive. Uhh, (cough cough) speak for yourself, Youngster. I learned reloading on those old paper hulls.

ReloaderFred
November 25, 2008, 09:17 PM
I don't miss standing them on their case mouths in the oven to make the wax redistribute so the crimps wouldn't shred. You could get an extra loading or two by doing that.

The other all plastic hull was the Wanda. They were dark red in color and you could see the powder, wads and shot inside. They used a cone shaped over shot wad to close with.

Fred

snuffy
November 25, 2008, 11:14 PM
Uhh, (cough cough) speak for yourself, Youngster. I learned reloading on those old paper hulls.

I don't feel young after roughing it with my nephews these last 3 days at deer CAMP! 0 degrees Friday night/sat morn! The propane heater decided it was too cold to work!!:what:

Yeah I started loading the then new AA and Remington express plastic shells, but the old paper was still around in quantity. I still remember the first box of Remington express duck loads I bought in 1958. They sure were pretty, clear enough to see the powder, shot and wad. They also worked much better than the old paper shells. They advertised them as being waterproof with their heat sealed star crimp.

If you do reload spent Hulls, yo DO need to seriously look at the Base Wad construction.

Yup and HEIGHT. low base wads allow more room for components, but the most important was the SHAPE of the base wad. The AA shells had a specific shape for a reason. It was like a shaped charge directed at the base of the wad column. That allowed for up to a grain less powder to equal the 1200 fps standard for trap loads. That grain of powder savings meant a lot of cost savings for an ammunition company.

The AA case was also tapered at the bottom, also something new at that time. You HAD to use winchester wads, the others simply wouldn't fit in those tapered shells, bulging the cases.

The early Remington express high brass shells had a fiber composite base wad. If it got wet, it would come apart, sink to the bottom of the base. Also they had a smaller #57 primer or CCI#157, so you had to use a special primer to re-load them. Some squeezed/forced a 209 size primer into the smaller pocket, the result was the required pressure would collapse the fiber base wad over the primer flash hole. Bloopers were the order of the day then! Things are much better now, those fiber base wads are gone as well as the #57 primers.

That would probably be Herter's. Here is one from my collection:

I still have some of those Herters all plastic shells, mine are green. I also have some of those goofy "model perfect" spin off over shot wads. The extractor would often pull right through the plastic rim leaving the case in the chamber. Besides they shot awful with that heavy over shot wad in the way of the shot charge.

Shoney
November 26, 2008, 12:01 AM
sargenv
there were at least three attempts at making an all plastic hull. - - - winchester aa's - - - activ - - - and ???? Wanda

Mt Shooter
November 26, 2008, 02:22 AM
I don't feel young after roughing it with my nephews these last 3 days at deer CAMP! 0 degrees Friday night/sat morn!

A little chilly

Remo-99
November 26, 2008, 02:47 AM
I've been told that shotgun hulls with high brass walls are good for 00 buck and heavy powder loads.

wacki,
I've had a few extraction/ejection problems with the high brass hulls when using heavy loadings, once they get on few reloads on them.

They tell me it's 'cause after firing, the plastic hull section will contract back, more so than the brass section.

243winxb
November 26, 2008, 09:06 AM
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=72 When loading buck shot or other shot, tighter and more dense patterns are formed using a Buffer. Factory shells are loaded with and without buffer. The lead pellets are deformed less when a buffer agent is used. Buffers make the shot fly straight and true, giving better patterns at longer yardage. Check out the reloading forum here> http://www.shotgunworld.com Plated shot will also give tigher patters, the harder the shot, the better.

_DMC
November 26, 2008, 10:19 AM
ACTIV hulls had a metal washer for a rim, coated with plastic. Wanda was all plastic.

Loading Buck Shot- Buffer Needed
Not always true. Depends on the composition of the shot. I cast my own Buckshot, hard, and the loads show no benefit with buffering.

DC

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