Carry advice...Sig P229?


PDA






coltrane59
November 25, 2008, 12:06 PM
Does anyone carry a Sig P229 that could shed some light on how easy or difficult it is? I have one in 9mm, and I want to start carrying (have license, but haven't yet carried). If it's not a good gun to carry, I'll prob. buy a new one (thinking about a Kahr PM9).

If you do carry this Sig, what's your setup.

FYI, Im 6' and 170 lbs.

If you enjoyed reading about "Carry advice...Sig P229?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Prepster
November 25, 2008, 12:23 PM
I don't have a 229, but I carried a similar sized gun (G19) for quite a while. I recommend the Blackhawk Serpa series, it has a great retension device that doesn't slow the draw, and their "CQC" series is very comfortable and concealable, and can be easily modified. They aren't all that pricy either.

If you want to spend a little more and don't mind waiting, the Milt Sparks Summer Special is considered to be excellent, in IWB carry is your thing.

Marcus L.
November 25, 2008, 12:31 PM
From my experience, the P229 is a little bulky for CCW. I carry a P229 .40S&W on duty with no problems, but off duty I prefer to carry my P239 9mm.

I feel that Safariland makes some of the best overall duty and CCW holsters. Look around their site and see if anything looks appealing. Try to get something in inside the waist band as something outside the waist band will not conceal very well with the P229.

pogo2
November 25, 2008, 12:34 PM
The Sig P229 is an excellent gun and a great defensive weapon. But it is somewhat on the thick and heavy side for concealed carry. I have one and have carried it, but it takes a good, stiff holster and belt with an ample cover garment to do it right.

I use a Kramer horsehide belt scabbard and a heavy leather belt from Rafter S:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/SigP229holster04.jpg

takhtakaal
November 25, 2008, 12:45 PM
pogo2 is on the money. You need to get a good holster, strong and somewhat stiff, with a good belt. I wore a Sparks VM2 for a few years until I had to switch to the left hand because of an injury. That would be my vote for a holster -- big and IWB, from a better maker like Sparks, Alessi, Kramer, or Null, among others -- but don't believe that they can't be concealed. Mine used to hide under a t-shirt with Hogue rubber grips.

coltrane59
November 25, 2008, 08:32 PM
Marcus (or anyone), you mentioned that you preferto carry the P239. I rented one at the range last Saturday, and it's a great hangun! I rented it mostly to compare to my P229 in terms of size. I shot the two side-by-side and visually compared. The P239 didn't seem much smaller, so I wasn't sure it would be the best alternative to my P229. That is, if carrying the P239 is only a mild improvement (in terms of carryability, concealability), then I figured I might as well try to carry what I already have (P229).

Are the looks deceiving? Is the P239 actually significantly easier to carry? Maybe I should reconsider this handgun.

pogo2
November 25, 2008, 09:59 PM
I have a P239 in 9mm and a P229 in .40. The P239 weighs 27.5 ounces empty and the P229 weighs 32 ounces empty. The P239 is also thinner than the P229 in both slide and grip, with a slightly shorter grip length. I think the P239 is easier to conceal. I use a Desantis Speed Scabbard with it:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/SigP239Holster21.jpg

Marcus L.
November 25, 2008, 10:28 PM
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2883/various001oq5.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=various001oq5.jpg)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2325/various004qi0.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=various004qi0.jpg)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/386/various002ff9.th.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=various002ff9.jpg)

As you can see this is a clear size difference. The slide of the P229 is wider, the grip is wider, the grip is longer, and the slide and barrel is longer. If I could only pick one pistol to have, I would take the P229 as it makes a good jack of all trades. However, the P239 conceals much better. Little size variations here and there make a big overall difference.

I would keep your P229 though and try to get a P239 9mm(stay away from the .40 and .357sig) as a second pistol.

coltrane59
November 26, 2008, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the pictures guys! That's really very helpful.

MJRW
November 26, 2008, 02:48 AM
A good belt's importance cannot be overstated here. It distributes weight much much better and helps prevent lean and belt sag. If you think you have a good belt, you don't. If you bought a belt specifically for carrying, you might have a good belt.

A friend has been carrying a P229 in a Galco IWB. The entire package is uncomfortable as heck and he should be getting his Milt-Sparks VM2 any day now which should really make it a much more carryable package.

All that said...the P229 is carryable, though I would find it a touch on the heavy, thick, and irregularly shaped side for comfortable carry. Doable? Yeah. Preferrable? Not for me.

Regarding the Blackhawk Serpa II: It is a fine range holster but the mechanisms attaching the holster to the carrying system, be it belt slide or paddle, and too weak. It is breakable, disturbingly so. A guy going for your gun may not draw your gun, but you might not either because the gun and the holster have a pretty good chance of being in his hand. I've already broken one mucking about with it and have encountered similar concerns from others.

harrygunner
November 26, 2008, 05:15 AM
A Sig 229 (in 40S&W) is my main carry gun around town. The gun has been 100% reliable for nearly a decade and is a very accurate shooter.

It will conceal as well as any of my other carry guns if a good rig goes with it. Since the gun is thick, I bought a thin holster, a kydex Comptac-CTAC, IWB.

I've spent thousands of dollars on other carry guns, but if I only had this weapon, I'd still be carrying one of the best.

zoom6zoom
November 26, 2008, 11:49 AM
I'm another that carries a 229 daily. As has been stated, a good belt is mandatory (regardless of what you're carrying). I use Beltman belts, and either a VM2 or a Serpa.

youngda9
November 26, 2008, 12:37 PM
I carry the 229 daily. The 239 isn't really that much smaller and is roughly the same weight. It has less mag capacity and didn't fit my hand like the 229 does.

Get a good belt, I use a wilderness tactical instructors belt. I carry in an Andrews McDaniell II holster just infront of the strong side hip. If you cant the gun a bit it hides quite nicely. I am 6'1" 210lbs.

You get used to the weight and hardly notice it. A good belt is key. I tried the Sparks VMII holster, it is a great holster. It didn't work for me. It did nothing to pull the butt of the gun into my body like the Andrews did, this is how to best conceal the gun. The Sparks did distribute the weight more and make the gun feel lighter. YRMV.

AK103K
November 26, 2008, 07:18 PM
I carry the 229 daily. The 239 isn't really that much smaller and is roughly the same weight. It has less mag capacity and didn't fit my hand like the 229 does.

Get a good belt, I use a wilderness tactical instructors belt. I carry in an Andrews McDaniell II holster just infront of the strong side hip. If you cant the gun a bit it hides quite nicely. I am 6'1" 210lbs.

You get used to the weight and hardly notice it. A good belt is key. I tried the Sparks VMII holster, it is a great holster. It didn't work for me. It did nothing to pull the butt of the gun into my body like the Andrews did, this is how to best conceal the gun. The Sparks did distribute the weight more and make the gun feel lighter. YRMV.

I agree with youngda9 on most points, differences being, I use a Blade Tech IWB or a Sparks VMII. I'm 5'6", 170#, and have been carrying a P229 with a double reload daily for about 6-7+ years now, and never found it to be to big or to heavy. It really isnt a "big" gun, but then again, I've always carried a more or less full size pistol, so maybe its what your used to.

I also have a P239 and agree, there is little difference in size, and only a slight difference in weight, so you might as well take advantage of the P229's extra 4-5 rounds. The P239 is still a great shooter though, and a good gun in its own right.

I would keep your P229 though and try to get a P239 9mm(stay away from the .40 and .357sig) as a second pistol.
I'm curious as why you say to stay away from the P239 in .40/357SIG.

Marcus L.
November 26, 2008, 07:47 PM
I'm curious as why you say to stay away from the P239 in .40/357SIG.

Durability issues. When it comes to using the .40S&W, the P229 had a delayed release by Sig in 1992 because they took their time engineering it to handle the heavier recoiling cartridge. They also didn't cut corners like Glock did with the 17/22 and try to stuff the .40S&W into the P228 in order to reduce R&D and share a common holster. In 1993 during the FBI trials the only two .40S&W pistols to make it to the end of the testing was the Sig P229 and Glock 22. In 2002 the only .40S&W pistols to make it to the end of the DHS trials was the P229 and H&K USP. In 2006 during the DOD trials the only .40S&W pistol to finish was the P229. FLETC(Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) processes hundreds of Sig pistols each year for maintenance and repair. ALL Sigs last longer in 9mm, but when it comes to the P226 and P239 the .40S&W and .357sig versions wear out much faster and break parts at almost 10 times the rate of the 9mm versions. Both the P226 and P239 were designed around the 9mm, and Sig only increased the slide mass and recoil spring weight for the .40S&W and .357sig versions so that they can share a common holster with the 9mm versions. What they should have done was increase the size of the external dimensions like they did with the P229. When it comes to the P229, the .40S&W and .357sig versions seem to do quite a bit better and are "almost" as durable as the 9mm version.

For the Department of Homeland Security and the Secret Service, their P229s in .40S&W and .357sig have lasted a long time. Some of them exceeding 100k rounds. Most 9mm Sigs will last that long. However, the P226 and P239 in .40S&W or .357sig seem to start breaking stuff around 20k-40k rounds. Durability equals dependability. Having a part like the trigger bar break in a fight will disable your pistol.

As for the P220 .45acp, it is also a problem child for serious police or military service where a LOT of full power ammunition is fired. The P220 was originally designed as a 9mm, and the .45acp version has the exact same external dimensions as its 9mm parent. So, its slender profile makes it overall more weak, and it doesn't have the slide mass to handle lots of shooting. Therefore, it really beats up on the frame internals during recoil. The P220 .45acp has never passed any extensive LE or military testing in over 20 years.

AK103K
November 26, 2008, 08:16 PM
While I understand what your saying about the wear and breakage issues, I really doubt the "average" shooter will encounter them or the 20-40K round count, even in a lifetime. I would also think if your shooting that much, you probably have support (just for the cost of ammo alone), or at least the wisdom to do routine maintenance on the gun.

Marcus L.
November 26, 2008, 09:28 PM
The pistols used in the trials were allowed to have regular maintenance and parts replacement schedules which FLETC also does for those Sigs in Federal service. For most Sig models, that includes most spring replacements every 5000rds in addition to pin and roll pin replacements. The problems were just the constant impacting of the slide, on the frame and frame internals which lose elasticity and toughness with time.

I don't shoot as much as I used to, but I put around 5000rds of full power duty ammo through my P229 duty pistol in one month during training. Reliability in a firearm is always of first priority. Sure, most people never break the 5000rd mark in their pistols, but that doesn't mean that a pistol with an average service life of 20k rounds will break parts at the 20k round mark. It just means that when you take 100 pistols and calculate their average round count some will last 50k rounds and some will last 5000rds. When you take a large sample of pistols the higher your average failure rate the more likely your pistol will run well within your scope of your use of it.

Sigs have a long service life in 9mm in comparison to a lot of other 9mms out there such as the CZ 75 or Beretta 92.

pogo2
November 26, 2008, 10:01 PM
Marcus L.:

Thanks for the interesting commentary on the service life of Sigs using various calibers. I already liked my P229 in .40 caliber, and now I have additional respect for the gun.

nwilliams
November 27, 2008, 01:58 AM
My primary ccw is a Sig 229, I carry it every day in a Comp-Tac paddle holster.

I have both the .40 barrel and the .357Sig for mine and for the range I usually stick with .40 because its cheaper to shoot, however for carry I always have it loaded with .357Sig.

The main problem I have with carrying the 229 is its weight, its a bit on the heavy side. However the overall size of the gun I find very comfortable for carry, especially the length of the grip.

SigP229R
November 27, 2008, 06:23 PM
Heres my 229 and holster tucker gunleather conceals nicely

symr00
November 28, 2008, 12:14 AM
I carry a 229 on duty in uniform and in a Don Hume PCCH AIWB when flying commercial airlines or plain clothes. Its a thick pistol for concealed carry. Thats why I carry a G23 off duty. Its much easier to conceal and is more reliable. I am on my second P229 service weapon in 2 years. The DHS contract pistols have had poor quality control. Twelve out of 25 in my class at FLETC had broken before final quals.

Sir Aardvark
November 28, 2008, 12:21 AM
My primary carry weapon is also a SIG 229. I carry it in a Milt Spark VM-II holster and a Milt Spark belt.

Mine conceals perfectly, and with the addition of Nill grips and XS 24/7 Big Dot sights, I have what I believe is a very comfortable and effective concealed carry handgun.

If you enjoyed reading about "Carry advice...Sig P229?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!