weird markings on range pick up brass


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SSN Vet
November 25, 2008, 02:39 PM
Did I hit "paydirt" or just more brass for the scrap bucket?

I landed about 50 of these on Sunday....

Head stamp has foreign markings that appear to read "nny", but I'm guessing that the n may actually be a pi symbol. Privi Partisan???

All of the brass has black stripes on it, as if fired from a very dirty rifle (note: this range has a "absolutely no full auto" policy)

looking inside, there is a singe primer hole, so I'm assuming it's boxer primed

yet the primer strike looks funny.

I'm guessing that, based on the primer seal, this is once fired mil. surp.

any help is appreciated.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88261&d=1227638317
88261

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88262&d=1227638331
88262

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Peter M. Eick
November 25, 2008, 02:51 PM
That is a Fluted Chamber. I believe it would be an H&K 91 shot those but I am not 100% sure.

My H&K P7's all do that to 9mm brass. The idea is to help extraction by using the gas pressure to help release the brass from the chamber walls.

I have found that with "hot" loads those marks turn to cuts and the brass may split there.

I reuse my 9mm brass, I am not sure I would do the same with that stuff.

243winxb
November 25, 2008, 02:53 PM
Looks like they were fired in a fluted chamber.

SSN Vet
November 25, 2008, 02:55 PM
well now I learned something new and can call today a good day!

fired in a fluted chamber

any issues with cleaning these up and reloading them?

indoorsoccerfrea
November 25, 2008, 02:56 PM
"I have found that with "hot" loads those marks turn to cuts and the brass may split there. "
judging from what Pete has said, it seems the brass is weakened along the fluting marks?

243winxb
November 25, 2008, 03:07 PM
Reply from RCBS "dont use the brass fired in a fluted chamber. Others say its ok to use. Redding thought nothing wrong that they knew of. http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4925495

shinz
November 25, 2008, 03:22 PM
Some fluted chambers are harder on brass than others. That doesn't look to bad, I've seen cases with really big ridges running down their shoulders. If the rest are like that I'd treat them as you normally would. Should they develope neck cracks you will easily spot them as they develope.
Steve

SSN Vet
November 25, 2008, 03:31 PM
how about the head stamp?

any ideas?

243winxb
November 25, 2008, 03:42 PM
http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm for headstamp look here

SSN Vet
November 25, 2008, 03:47 PM
thanks for the link....

here's what I got there....

nny=Prvi Partizan-Namenska Proizvodnja, Titovo, Uzice 31000, Yugoslavia. These are actually Cyrillic letters equal to "PPU in the Western alphabet.

So I guessed correctly....

last mystery...

the funny shaped primer strike???

bullseye308
November 25, 2008, 03:52 PM
Those look fine to me. They look like mine out of my CETME and I have reloaded most of them 5 times so far. If you can feel any ridges after resizing you want to scrap them as I do not believe they would be safe at that point to load again. All of this is negated if you are loading at the upper end of the scale, by that I mean I would probably not load them more than twice at max loads for a weapon with a fluted chamber. If you plan on using them in something with a non-fluted chamber, so long as there are no definite flute marks standing on the case I would use them like any other once fired brass.

243winxb
November 25, 2008, 03:54 PM
the funny shaped primer strike??? The hole for the firing pin is bigger than it should be. Brass flowing into that void. Best i can tell with that photo and my old eyes

ReloaderFred
November 25, 2008, 03:55 PM
The primer strike you see is caused by the firing pin hole in the bolt being oversized, allowing the brass to flow into it slightly. This is common in some military rifles, so they'll function in the dirtiest of conditions.

Those rounds could have been fired in a Cetme or H&K, and look like they're reloadable at least once. They may need trimming, though.

Hope this helps.

Fred

bullseye308
November 25, 2008, 03:55 PM
Looks like the firing pin may have excess wear and be oblong? Can't really tell from the pic, but it looks oblong to me. Either way, NNY brass is supposed to be mil spec(I believe) and it is reported to be good brass.

Steve C
November 25, 2008, 05:53 PM
Spanish CEMTE's used fluted chambers too and the cases came out grooved. There where CEMTE's on the surplus market a year or two ago.

Doug b
November 25, 2008, 05:54 PM
The HK 91 had a delayed blowback action that did strange stuff to primers.

Bboomer
November 25, 2008, 06:29 PM
I see those type of cases at the range all the time. I knew they had been fired in either a Cetme or PSL. Does a number on 'em huh? I have neither of those rifles.

rcmodel
November 25, 2008, 06:51 PM
The roller-delayed blow-back action of the HK-91 & CETME need the fluted chamber to allow extraction while there is still a lot of chamber pressure left holding the brass tightly in the chamber.

Unlike a conventional locked-breach gas operated gun, they are trying to yank the case out before the pressure has dropped enough for it to let go of the chamber walls.

SO, the flutes allow gas leakage to get outside the case and blow it loose while it is still expanded against the chamber.

Due to the violent nature of the beast, the primers take a licking too!

rcmodel

bullseye308
November 25, 2008, 06:53 PM
This round looks like it was fired from either a CETME, H&K G3, or a PTR91. I don't think the PSL has a fluted chamber. Normally these rifles are rough on the brass and dent the case mouth and a small dent in the side. The brass you found does not appear to have any of the normal dents and should be all right to reload with no problems. Just in case you were wondering, the CETME came first, then the G3, then the PTR91. When properly tuned, they still usually dent the brass, but are great rifles.

SSN Vet
November 25, 2008, 08:11 PM
about 1/4 of the cases have a dented neck.....

I'll pop the primers and tumble them and see how they clean up.

rondog
November 25, 2008, 08:33 PM
Interesting. I have a case like that that I found, and wondered WTH happened to it.

bullseye308
November 25, 2008, 11:11 PM
about 1/4 of the cases have a dented neck.....
Typical for this type of rifle. Most will still be loadable though.

bullseye308
November 25, 2008, 11:14 PM
I find cases like that when I hit the indoor range in town. They rent MP5's and whichever H&K in 223 it is, plus my 308 brass. I go home with flute marks on 223, 308, and 9mm and almost all have lots of life in them.

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