How good is good?


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mgrych
November 26, 2008, 04:40 PM
So i hear people talking about holding under .5" at 100 yds with their pet loads. This is of course really good, but i wanna know if most of these people are doing it with a benchrest type vise or what. I shoot about .75" with just a bi-pod and i wanna know where i measure up.

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D. Manley
November 26, 2008, 04:50 PM
I'd say if you're getting sub-moa groups with only a bipod I'd say its outstanding.

K3
November 26, 2008, 05:12 PM
I've only ever hit 0.5" at 100 yards off the bench once. If I get to an inch or under I'm happy. I know some of my rifles and their pet loads will do 0.5".

It's just the shooter that's mucking things up.

Walkalong
November 26, 2008, 06:48 PM
I shoot about .75" with just a bi-pod and i wanna know where i measure up.You measure up just fine, trust me. No worries there.

I'd say if you're getting sub-moa groups with only a bipod I'd say its outstanding.D. Manley is 100% correct.

243winxb
November 26, 2008, 06:50 PM
http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm100 yds, 4 groups, 5 shots each. 20 shot average under 1" First bullet out of the barrel to the last, no fouling shots. You have a very accurate factory rifle . In benchrest,custom guns, 25 shot average under 1/4" @100 yds. using 6ppc 45 power scope. Shooting off a bi-pod, your doing great.

ranger335v
November 26, 2008, 06:52 PM
"So i hear people talking about holding under .5" at 100 yds with their pet loads. "

Yeah.

I don't KNOW, but I stongly suspect, most of them only get that size cluster from maybe one three shot group in twenty. That's just to good to be believed as a consistant thing when they are fired from factory sporter rifles and barrels shooting common factory game type bullets off cheap rests or sand bags and over some kind of made up shooting bench. I did say 'most', not never.

It it's not consistant accuracy, it ain't real accuracy, "averages" don't count. Anyone shooting a .5"group" that ignores common "flyers" striking another inch out is kidding himself if he thinks he has a half minute rig.

If you are holding consistant .75" groups you're doing quite well.

But now let the protests begin....

1858rem
November 26, 2008, 11:23 PM
i got a 3/8 @ 100yd, non typical, 22 mag rf 3 shot group, half inch common and always under an inch. makeshift bench was the center console of the truck and both doors wide open lol:neener:, recently upgraded to bipod and cant pay 10 bucks/50rds(non-reloadable rimfire)..... i could reload 150+ for my .45 colt at that price:what:

jpwilly
November 26, 2008, 11:50 PM
My AR-15 Varmint Rig holds 3/4" 5 shot groups all day...that's the norm. The abnormal groups are 1/3" but they do happen. Funny thing is my second most accurate rifle is a inexpensive Mossberg ATR 100 30-06 with a Centerpoint scope that shoots 3/4" -1" groups off a bipod!

Shoney
November 27, 2008, 12:05 AM
If you were shooting 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with Iron sights - -
-E E E E E E E H H H a a a a a!!!!!!!!!!!!

With a 4X scope - - - MIghty Fine.

With 9X or higher power scope - - - Ya done good.

Age of the shooter also makes a difference. I have shot many very small groups with my 222 over the past 40 years My son and daughter can still shoot 0.30"-0.40" groups with that rifle, but I am lucky to shoot under 3/4" because of tremors and the start of macular degeneration. It's called OPD.

plinky
November 27, 2008, 12:06 AM
It it's not consistant accuracy, it ain't real accuracy, "averages" don't count. Anyone shooting a .5"group" that ignores common "flyers" striking another inch out is kidding himself if he thinks he has a half minute rig.



I gotta disagree somewhat. I like averages.. I don't throw out bad shots or bad groups but I don't expect my rifle to shoot the same group every time. Averages tell you how your rifle tends to shoot and what you can most likely expect.

I guess the way you put it, you should think of your rifle in light of it's worst group. That could be valuable info too, but it doesn't really tell what the most likely result of the shooting will be. And yeah, judging it by it's best group is even worse.

I also composite my groups onto one master target. I've had rifles that shot decent groups but each group struck a different point. The composite target really shows this as well as other tendencies that you may not see in 5 shot groups.

And I'd say that the OP's group is great. It would almost surely be smaller from a benchrest.

Walkalong
November 27, 2008, 09:10 AM
It it's not consistant accuracy, it ain't real accuracy, "averages" don't count. Anyone shooting a .5"group" that ignores common "flyers" striking another inch out is kidding himself if he thinks he has a half minute rig.


I gotta disagree somewhat.
I gotta agree. One 1/2" group out of 10 is nice to brag about, but it does not make the gun a .5 MOA gun. If it can do that fairly consistently, factoring in shooter error and conditions, then you may have a .5 MOA rifle. None of us can shoot to the rifles potential every time. Well, 99% of us. Tubbs might, Boyer might. ;)

And I'd say that the OP's group is great
Absolutely!

qajaq59
November 27, 2008, 09:27 AM
One day I just wanted to see exactly how well I could hold a group with my hand loaded 30 calibers. I fired 50 rounds. Yup 50. That group was 1 1/4 wide by 1 1/2 high. No flyers outside of that hole. And it was a hole.

Now I really do know what kind of group I shoot, and I can stop looking at 3 shot groups and fooling myself that I still shoot as well as I did 45 years ago. It's pretty obvious that I don't!! And that's that..... :D

MaterDei
November 27, 2008, 09:33 AM
I can shoot sub MOA from a bipod all day long if I don't try and include too many rounds in the group. As soon as my groups get to 2 or more rounds I can no longer shoot sub MOA. ;)

plinky
November 27, 2008, 09:50 AM
I gotta agree. One 1/2" group out of 10 is nice to brag about, but it does not make the gun a .5 MOA gun. If it can do that fairly consistently, factoring in shooter error and conditions, then you may have a .5 MOA rifle. None of us can shoot to the rifles potential every time. Well, 99% of us. Tubbs might, Boyer might. FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="


LOL! I think we're in agreement.

Well the part that I was not in agreement with was that "averages don't count". Averages take into account your worst, your best and your most likely group. I can't think of a more honest way to score performance. Obviously, if you only shoot one 1/2" group out of ten, your average will not be 1/2".

Ky Larry
November 27, 2008, 09:41 PM
I have good days and some not so good days. I can tell when my blood sugar is going up and down (Type 2 diabetic). My eyesight changes and my shakes get better and worse. Some days I can get ragged 1 hole groups time after time. Other days I couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddel.There are no bad days shooting. Some are just better than others.

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