Looking for Anschutz qualities on a budget.


PDA






bergwerk
November 27, 2008, 01:07 PM
Having not shot a rifle in competition I thought I'd get started with a .22 lr just to see if I have what it takes without breaking the bank on thousands of rounds of centerfire ammo (not a reloader at this stage).

Anschutz is the magic word in .22 target rifles but even used ones that have been shot a lot are not available below $850.

Can I buy or build a $500 rifle with a bull barrel and an adjustable stock and trigger? There is a lot of good information on various rimfire forums but it is often tainted by brand loyalty and I think that I may avoid some of that on this forum.

Thank you for all advice.

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for Anschutz qualities on a budget." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rust collector
November 27, 2008, 01:53 PM
Annies are the gold standard, but Walther and Feinwerkbau also produced some top comp guns. Currency exchange rates have sent prices which always were pretty healthy, through the roof.

Best bang for buck now is probably Soviet iron. I saw one called the Ural selling for awhile, but not sure they are still imported. I'll bet there are many out there we've never heard of, but I have no experience with any of them. I've got a Kimber all american match I need to find a home for, but it would need sights and like most rifles currently produced, doesn't have the thumbhole stock or hook buttplate. I do have an old Remington model 37 that still punches paper for indoor matches.

TCB in TN
November 27, 2008, 02:11 PM
You need to look around and find used. I have seen several Single shots between $350 and $500. Hit Auction arms, gun broker, and the other online spots and you can find some good deals.

atblis
November 27, 2008, 02:28 PM
CZ 452/453 American/Varmint
http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main068.png

hksw
November 27, 2008, 02:44 PM
For the $500 limit stipulated, the CZ is, IMO, probably the best bet currently unless you can find an Anschütz 1451. If you can swing another $300, you can get a 64 action Classic or Weatherby XXII (an Anschütz 64 action). NExt for an additional $100/$150 is the MPR (also a 64 action).

As noted, the Russian guns a re also pretty good but they sure don't look it. They will be rough looking as compared to an Anschütz but they work very well which is where it really counts (at least from the samples I have).

A lot of folks like the Marlins and Savages but mine have not shot as well as my CZs. Another good option but a tiny bit over the limit is the Browning T-Bolt. Very well built and very good performance. Not as precise as an Anschütz but it doesn't cost as much.

bergwerk
November 27, 2008, 03:13 PM
Yes I did look at the CZ 453 Varmint but by the time you add a butt plate and sights and some kind of a comb you are in Annie territory.

The Russians are indeed the best bang for the buck such as the Izhmash / CM-2 but while many people list them at $600 + nobody has them in stock. They also are single shot and I was hoping for a repeater.

atblis
November 27, 2008, 11:09 PM
Oh, didn't the see the adjustable stock part, thought you meant adjustable trigger.

rangerruck
November 27, 2008, 11:15 PM
dont forget a russian cmp m-2 , a biathlon basic, a Finnish Lion, or even a TOZ.
also the cz's are allways a good bet. Don't forget another couple of bargain basements; the newest savages were given the best review by rifle magazine, any 22 has ever gotten by them, ever. i think about 10 dudes shot that rifle, at 100 yds, some with no experience in rimfires, all the way up to one dude with benchrest skills. Everyone shot sub moa groups at 100 yds, and the benchrest dude was putting up half moa's.
I would also not overlook a used marlin 880sq, or a marlin 2000 or 7000. just do the trigger return spring trick, and other smoothing tricks you know, and the marlin trigger will be good enough.
but I gotta tell ya, it's damn hard to beat an Annie factory trigger...
Oh yeah, a kimber or mossberg from our CMP, those will be very good shooters
as well.

gvnwst
November 28, 2008, 12:13 AM
For $500, you can get a really nice savage, not sure how they compare to CZs, but they are ACCURATE! Like, .3" at 50yd or better accurate.

ccd
November 28, 2008, 01:28 AM
Some of the old Russian Target 22's are available at CDNN. They also have a 22LR version of the Savage Mako for just over $200. The Russian toggle bolt rimfires are also a very good deal and usually quite accurate, but are just available in the US with the conventional hunting stock. There are several dealers in the US who specialize in selling Competition 22LR rifles. If you ask questions about them on the rimfire boards (RFC) you should be able to find their websites (sorry but I have forgotten them.) Whatever you decide to buy, you will discover that the cost of good match 22LR ammo will make the cost of the gun seem quite small in the long term, so buy the best rifle you can afford.

pbhome71
November 28, 2008, 02:02 AM
If you want a repeater with adjustable stock, IMHO, you are looking for a biathlon type rifle.
http://www.raacfirearms.com/images/p_biathlon7-3.jpg
The RAA Biathlon 7-3/7-4 is good. You can check with MT Guns in Nevada.

MT Guns (Target Rifles Only)
P.O. Box 12547
Zephyr Cove, NV 89448
805-720-7720 Phone
805-962-1855 Fax
mtguns@earthlink.net

gunnie
November 28, 2008, 02:30 AM
the old savage named anshutz rifles from the early 90's are a good buy, if you can find one for sale. the remington 540XR is good iron also. there again, if you can find one.

gunnie

Brad Clodfelter
November 28, 2008, 05:03 AM
You need to ask yourself this question. How accurate do you want the gun to be? And what do you consider a target rifle? A CZ to me isn't what I consider a target rifle. They are nice guns for the money. And a true target rifle won't be a repeater. You need to find a good used Suhl 150 or older Anschutz 54 say a 1411 model. Both of these will have exceptional barrels and have triggers that will go down in the low oz. My Suhl trigger is set on 2oz. The factory barrel Suhl would shoot extremely well. Here's a few examples.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0285_Small_.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790IMGP0302_Small_.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/23790Suhl_Groups_Custom_.jpg

Shawnee
November 28, 2008, 07:28 AM
:scrutiny:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117018552

:confused:

:cool:

scythefwd
November 28, 2008, 07:35 AM
You could look at a mossberg 144, which will run you about 600. I know that is outside your cost, but they are plenty accurate. If you can't go that route, the mossberg 44(us) is also very accurate at about 150-200 (with redfield olympic sights).

bergwerk
November 28, 2008, 09:34 AM
Thanks guys, I knew I'd hit pay dirt here.

Unfortunately I could find no Suhls at this time but I will be talking to Mac Tilton -MT Guns- on Monday as he seems to be a key element in finding what I need.

This Russian and used German route is not quite as easy as walking in the next best gun shop and buying off the rack but I guess that it is an indispensable element of entering the sport.

Brad Clodfelter, is that shooting done with iron sights?

Brad Clodfelter
November 28, 2008, 10:31 AM
bergwerk,

All those groups but one was shot off this setup below. That picture below was my Suhl 150 the way I originally bought it from a guy in Michigan. It shot great from the day I bought it. All I had to do was put a Weaver T36 scope on it.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790Suhl_150.jpg

That one group on the red dot above was shot off of this set up.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/23790Fudd_Rest_And_Horton_Rear_Rest.jpg

The Suhl 150 and Suhl 150-1 have no safety. But I'm trying to steer you in the right direction here. You will be money ahead if you buy a Suhl. They have a killer trigger and the original barrel on the Suhls will shoot group after group with the best of rimfires out there. They had killer barrels. All Suhls will shoot holes.

Brad Clodfelter
November 28, 2008, 10:35 AM
If you look hard enough, you may find a Suhl 150 or Suhl 150-1 for around $700.

JImbothefiveth
November 28, 2008, 01:28 PM
Have you looked at a used Anschutz?
(Whoops, nevermind, it looks like you did.)

Owen
November 28, 2008, 01:38 PM
The first question you need to answer is "What Game?"

bergwerk
November 29, 2008, 07:21 PM
Thanks guys and much obliged for all the good information.

Brad, I hope to find the elusive Suhl in my searches but it will take some doing to replicate your setup and your skills. Thanks for sharing.

Owen, the game would be at first the USBR and the NRA silhouette rimfire matches. If I show aptitude in the .22lr I would like to graduate to NRA centerfire silhouette and others.

One of the challenges will be to find a good range in my area near Jacksonville FL.

Brad Clodfelter
November 29, 2008, 10:38 PM
bergwerk,

No problem. And you can learn to shoot just as well as most anyone out there. All it takes is practice, and then more and more practice. :)

If you call Mac Tilton, he will be more than happy to help you and answer questions about the Suhl. Mac knows how well the Suhls will shoot. I have spoke with Mac about 3 years ago. He's a walking gun book of knoweldge.

One of the best places I know of to find a Suhl 150 or Anschutz 54, or even a Rem 40x or Win 52D is the classifieds at benchrest central.

http://www.benchrest.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi

You will also be money ahead if you can buy one already set up with a benchrest stock and tuner. There is 3 of them for sell there now. Email the guys for pictures if you like. I will be more than happy to try and help if you wish. But I won't tell you which one to buy. I can tell you which one I think is the better deal. All of them should shoot.

Remember the Suhls have no safety, so you might want to check the rules of some of the organiztional shooting events that you may plan to shoot in before you buy one. But I have tried my best to steer you in the right direction. Any of the guns I mentioned above can be built on to produce a custom benchrest rifle if you so later wish to do. The Suhl and the Anschutz 1411 model I mentioned will have the better factory triggers though. All of these guns will shoot as good as any factory barrel rimfire gun in all probability.

Good luck.

And let me know what you decide.

Brad

cracked butt
November 29, 2008, 11:04 PM
You could look at a mossberg 144, which will run you about 600. I know that is outside your cost, but they are plenty accurate.

Shhhh! don't be letting out the secret that Mossberg 144s were made to compete with the Winchester 52s and Annies on a level playing field.






I got my 144LSB last year for around $300;)

Brad Clodfelter
November 29, 2008, 11:06 PM
Also just to be clear on the Suhl 150's, they are older used guns that the East Germans made from the end of 1973 to 1991. The Suhl 150 was made up until around I would guess the mid 80's I believe. The Suhl 150-1 came out as the second version and was made after to 1991 to the best of my knowledge. They don't make the Suhl 150's anymore just so you know. So parts can be hard to come by. But I have yet to break a part on my Suhl. You can still find some parts if you look hard enough.

The Suhl factory barrels like I said will shoot with the best of them. A few years ago, I, too didn't know what a Suhl 150 was before I talked to the right guys about buying a benchrest rifle. These guys were benchrest shooters and steered me toward buying a Suhl 150 because of the way they shoot with the original factory barrel, and because they had one of the best factory 2oz triggers as well. Mine shot holes from the get go. A matter of fact, I shot the group above I posted on the colored in red circle the second trip to the range with the gun. I never ever had a gun that would shoot like this. That's incuding a Cooper 17HMR. The Suhl is simply awesome to shoot with good Eley ammo. And it likes Wolf, SK, the old Federal ammo, too. And the Suhl won't just shoot a great group every now and then like some guns. It will just keep on shooting holes day in and day out if you are up to it and can read the wind on the windier days by learning to read your flags.

I think you will be tickled with buying one. But if you wish to opt for the Anschutz 54 due to the fact you can still get parts, go right a head and do so. They will shoot dang well, too.

Brad

cracked butt
November 29, 2008, 11:07 PM
Having not shot a rifle in competition I thought I'd get started with a .22 lr just to see if I have what it takes without breaking the bank on thousands of rounds of centerfire ammo (not a reloader at this stage).

Hate to say it, but ammo that you'll be running through a .22 target rifle isn't exactly cheap either, unless you are incredibly lucky and find that your rifle shoots mid-level match ammo as well as it shoots ELEY or Lapua ammo.

Brad Clodfelter
November 29, 2008, 11:16 PM
I don't know much about the Mossberg 144 models. I'm sure they do shoot very well. But I don't know one benchrest shooter who shoots them in benchrest rimfire shooting matches, or that has used the action to build a benchrest gun later off of that was competitive with the other guns out there.

The best shooting factory rimfire barrels ever produced to my knowledge are the Anschuzt 54's, Suhl 150's, Winchester 52's and Rem 40X's. Now they may shoot quite well, but to hang with these guns on a consistent basis I would have to see it to believe it.

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for Anschutz qualities on a budget." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!