dump my semi-autos and buy a full auto?


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sernv99
November 27, 2008, 10:28 PM
I'm lucky to live in a state that allows possession of full auto guns. I found a FNC for $7500 in mint condition. I have a PTR-91, Arsenal AK 7.62 and just bought a new Sig 556, all semi-auto of course.

is going full auto worth it and dump the semi-autos? I'm afraid of wear and tear on a full auto gun or is this a false assumption?

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taliv
November 27, 2008, 10:47 PM
you want the FA cause you want a FA? or for an investment?

I LIKE IT!
November 27, 2008, 10:57 PM
Ask yourself why you want it?

Do you want that particular MG? Have you fired it and if so do you really want to spend that kind of money for it?

Only gun I ever broke bank over was my NIB HK94A3(which I sold/damn bills)
and a RR PP Mp5 which I'm patiently waiting to aquire.

If I had to make that choice I'd keep the semi for political reasons.(don't think title 2 guns will be devasted by any new AWB but who knows)

rfurtkamp
November 27, 2008, 11:16 PM
is going full auto worth it and dump the semi-autos?


Obviously there's something you liked about the guns you already have - or you wouldn't have bought them. If you were selling duplicates or triplicates or quadruiplicates of guns (not that *any* of us have that), that'd be one thing.

Just what you've listed will be lucky to cover half of the FNC.


I'm afraid of wear and tear on a full auto gun or is this a false assumption?


If you can afford the ammo, you can afford to fix it. ;0

marsche
November 27, 2008, 11:30 PM
$7,500 is not a bad price to purchase the weapon. The real cost is feeding it, not fixing it.

salvo
November 27, 2008, 11:38 PM
Most people that buy a full auto end up buying more of them. If you can afford it go for it. I bought a Uzi for my first full auto, it was fun for a little wile, but I was not like most people and one was more than enough. I sold it because I enjoy shooting one shot at a time. I never made so much money off a fire arms sale though, guess what I did with the money? Bought a few very nice pre 64 Winchesters and could not be happier.
I'm glad I did not have to sell any guns when I bought the Uzi, think long and hard it may make sense for you, then again it may not.

BeltfedMG
November 28, 2008, 12:13 AM
After a while the machineguns become "Just another gun in the safe" and loose the cool factor. I harly ever shoot any of mine, some dont get 100 rnds a yr put threw them and its not because i dont have the ammo, i have TONS, just prefer to shoot bolt gun at long range, or shoot the 10/22, point is, after a while you will wish you had more then just the one F/A. If your buying for investment only, go cllect stamps, baseball cards or something else, leave the gun for someone who enjoys the sport, not the money aspect.

W.E.G.
November 28, 2008, 12:43 AM
Old fella I met at the gun show said, "Every man should own a machine-gun and a convertible-top automobile once in his life. That way he'll know he never wants to own another one."

Machine guns and convertibles are for rich men who don't need a day-to-day gun, or a reliable car. You figure out where you fall in that regard.

taliv
November 28, 2008, 12:45 AM
i'll plead guilty on the convertible, my first and last, long since sold. :)

but no, machine guns, and even more so shooting them, are addictive. never really gets old for me.

LiquidTension
November 28, 2008, 01:01 AM
I was in the same boat, trying to decide between an FNC and a Ruger AC556. I ended up going with an M11 for several reasons: different uppers available, cheaper ammo, overall cost. What I really wanted was an M16. If you're set on a full auto, the extra two thousand dollars for an M16 will be well worth it. Plenty of spare parts, tons of uppers from .22 to 9mm to .223. I've seen lowers and receivers for $9500 recently.

Had to sell my Max-11 when my car died. Sad day :(

Ohio Gun Guy
November 28, 2008, 01:07 AM
Isnt it a convertable, machine gun, and a blond? :evil: (At the same time!)

MGshaggy
November 28, 2008, 02:13 AM
Wear and tear on an FNC won't be bad, but parts can be a little difficult to find at times. For that kind of price point, I'd really suggest a lightning link for an AR15 - AR15 parts are much more available and less expensive, and the AR has numerous caliber conversions you can sill take advantage of, even in full auto.

As to the question some here raise of 'is it really worth it', I'd have to say for me the answer was 'yes'. I always wanted a machinegun and when I realized I could own one legally, I set out and did it. That was a few thousand dollars in transfer taxes ago and I still enjoy buying, owning, and shooting them. I may not take one out everytime I go shooting, but I always have a great time when I do, and I always have the option available to me.

Occasionally I do find I may get a little tired of one, but there's no rule that you can't sell it, trade it off later for something else you may like better, or add a little more cash and trade up. Heck, I've done it several times.

Trebor
November 28, 2008, 06:17 AM
Isnt it a convertable, machine gun, and a blond? (At the same time!)

I have a machine gun and a blonde, but no convertable. I guess two out of three ain't bad.

When I had a mid life crisis I had to pick either a girlfriend, a convertable or a machine gun. Since I'm not a car guy, and already have a wife (the blonde), then all that was left was the MG.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 28, 2008, 06:50 AM
I wouldn't. Though I don't even use the 3rd burst or auto settings on my M4 in the Army. I honestly can't think of a situation, especially in civilian range settings, where I would ever use full auto. It's simply an inaccurate waste of ammo. If you've got the money, get one if you feel like it. But it sounds like you'd have to sell a pretty nice collection to get a feature that is basically useless.

sernv99
November 28, 2008, 10:01 AM
well I have $3000 already from a sale of a gun I just sold and my other rifles I have, that was when I wasn't considering a full auto. I recently got into hi-grade shotguns for sporting clays and skeet and I would probably use those more than a full auto so I guess I should skip a full auto. My other rifles, I don't shoot them a lot anyway, so far I probably put 700 rounds through the PTR and Arsenal. The Sig I just got right after the Obama gun buying craze.

it was just a thought that I was kicking around and wanted to know more about the feasibility of getting one full auto or have a few semi-autos.

H2O MAN
November 28, 2008, 10:10 AM
I have friends that own select fire weapons and love to shoot their ammo through their weapons, but I won't own one.

I will invest in sound suppressors for my semi auto rifles though :evil:

JR47
November 28, 2008, 10:24 AM
I own a pair of M14 type Class 3 weapons, and a couple of others, as well. I used the M14 in SE Asia, and liked it enough to buy one in the days past. I also bought a Class 3 SA in the 90's.

Just in case it was missed, many weapons are select-fire, and can be used as a semi-auto. I can walk a 2 liter soda bottle along the berm in the auto setting, by exercising trigger control. I learned that in SE Asia.

There is nothing that requires one to own a Class 3 gun. However, the same logic applied to ownership here would have us all owning bolt-action rifles, and revolvers. After all,

I honestly can't think of a situation, especially in civilian range settings, where I would ever use (fill in the blank)

Oh, and Class 3 also encompasses the larger, belt-fed weapons. Big and bulky, they are, however, much more accurate in full-auto than any shoulder fired Class 3.

One good thing. So far, ownership of Class 3 weaponry virtually ensures that your cost will always be covered when you sell it. Try that with your semi-auto.:)

Al Thompson
November 28, 2008, 11:13 AM
My biggest issue would be the possibility of having .gov do something to stop the transfer at a later date rendering your 7.5 k rifle worthless. :(

taliv
November 28, 2008, 12:44 PM
al, that is a risk, but it's offset somewhat by the "turn them all in" risk that might apply to everything that doesn't have a tax stamp. i figure i'll have some of each

243winxb
November 28, 2008, 01:30 PM
IF the receive gets damaged/unusable, there are no replacement actions. Finding a place to shoot it could be a problem. Many gun club anti-auto. 100 rounds only lets you shoot for 8 seconds.

JR47
November 28, 2008, 01:46 PM
IF the receive gets damaged/unusable, there are no replacement actions. Finding a place to shoot it could be a problem. Many gun club anti-auto. 100 rounds only lets you shoot for 8 seconds.

IF your Krieghoff Skeet Special has an ammunition related failuire that cracks the breech, you won't get your money back, either. They cost as much as many Class 3 guns.

Gun Clubs are expected to include Liability Insurance. Some of them don't allow unrestricted use of Class 3 weapons because of that Policy. Many others do. I've never heard of anything limiting the number of rounds that you can fire.

Why does everyone seem to follow the FUDD approach when talking about Class 3? Short of a water-cooled Model 1919, NO machinegun is used in a continuous fire mode.

Funny, but the posters here seem to be focusing on the ability to fire indiscriminately, just as opponents of semi-auto, high capacity, weapons do. :what::what:

243winxb
November 28, 2008, 04:24 PM
IF your Krieghoff Skeet Special has an ammunition related failuire that cracks the breech, you won't get your money back, either. They cost as much as many Class 3 guns.
The point i was trying to make is, no amount of money will let Colt or anyother make, replace a cracked or disabled receiver on an M16/any transferable machine gun. Its federal law.

243winxb
November 28, 2008, 04:29 PM
I've never heard of anything limiting the number of rounds that you can fire.
This States public ranges are limited to 3 shots in rife at rifle ranges, 5 shots at a handgun range for handguns. That goes for bolt, pump, semi-auto. Full auto is banned all together. At private clubs in this area, the dont even like semi-auto. Hunting type clubs have this mentality, sight in your hunting rifle in late nov., early Dec. and thats it. The high power clubs will not let anyone shoot full auto. Nothing to do with insurance.

243winxb
November 28, 2008, 04:34 PM
Why does everyone seem to follow the FUDD approach when talking about Class 3? Short of a water-cooled Model 1919, NO machinegun is used in a continuous fire mode.
Then you never seen a 30 caliber belt fed running , they only stop to change barrels when the rounds start cooking off in a to hot barrel.

243winxb
November 28, 2008, 04:36 PM
Funny, but the posters here seem to be focusing on the ability to fire indiscriminately, just as opponents of semi-auto, high capacity, weapons do I can tell you never rocked and rolled on full auto just for the fun of it when no one was shooting back at you.

rfurtkamp
November 28, 2008, 04:43 PM
The vast majority of FNCs are registered sear guns - the host dies, you replace it. Viable repair/reconstruction that doesn't exist for $1k guns where you can just replace them does in fact exist for higher-end guns - receiver rebuilds and major repairs are something you can find done a lot more regularly on NFA stuff.

That said, stuff wears out, and stuff can often be fixed. It's the economic feasibility of the fix that matters. On irreplaceable items, that feasibility often goes out the window.

Finding ranges to shoot NFA stuff vary from region to region; here not being able to use NFA stuff would leave me scratching my head. They may not like it personally, any more than the Title I semis...but it's 100% kosher. Then again, I left Communist Illinois for a reason. And chances are your local SOT can tell you where you can shoot them - most people who can't find a range or location to shoot haven't asked the right person.

BeltfedMG
November 28, 2008, 06:04 PM
First off, yes full auto at the range is fun, just blastin awat at no particular target but just to feel the power and watch the dirt fly, regardless the cool factor will wear off, will still be fun, but not like it was when you didnt have one.

I hear the problem of findin a range that will allow F/A is a problem also, dont know, have several hundred acres to shoot on of private property, shoot off back deck as i have range in back yard, berm at 35 yrds, 135 yrds and open feild for 700 yrds.

I dont know any class 3 owners who wouldnt take a loss if the ban on MG's was overturned, just so we could buy more at the prices they SHOULD BE AT. As for if they say no more selling what you have....that doesnt make any of my MG's worthless to me, ever hand over a 8 yr old kid his first MG and tell him to pull the trigger till it stops?? Try it and tell me they are worthless. Hell, even 50 yr old men are the same as the 8 yr olds. If your into it, your into it and they are worth it, but think it threw, they do become just another gun after a while.

pkoch62
November 28, 2008, 09:09 PM
Even if the '86 ban was overturned, wouldn't a fair number of pieces retain a decent amount of value? Being able to stick a fun switch on your WASR for a few hundred bucks more wouldn't add to the supply of Vietnam bringback AKs.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 28, 2008, 09:16 PM
No don't sell. Add only, or forget it.

trbon8r
November 28, 2008, 09:25 PM
Sounds like you have a nice collection of semi autos. I'd keep them.

Most of the Class III people I've come across or seen in internet videos usually seem to be blasting away at the berm, or nothing in particular. It looks kind of boring after awhile. I like to hit what I'm shooting at, not just burn through ammo. :)

JR47
November 29, 2008, 07:38 PM
You are correct, the "fun" of just dumping belts of ammo, and ruining barrels, wore off for me decades ago. The idea of actually being able to hit something in burst-fire, however, is still there.

If you had bothered to read my post, you'd note that I own several Class 3 weapons. All of them are fired. I also actually went through combat where M14, M16, M60 and older M1919A4 guns were used. It was anything but funny to have to change a barrel under fire.

I'd suggest that you try your wit on someone who might not have much actual experience with civilian and military ownership of Class 3 weapons. Their lack of knowledge might appeal more to the stories.:)

grimjaw
November 29, 2008, 08:28 PM
I heard a coworker describe a similar purchase like this.

HIM: Buying that boat was the second best day I've had.
ME: Second best? What was the first?
HIM: The day I sold it.

Once it's bought, there are still costs associated with shooting it and maintaining it. I love to shoot, and I can't even really afford to shoot a 9mm subgun often. I definitely wouldn't trade all my semi-autos for one, even with the relatively lackluster semis I have now.

jm

natecade1
November 29, 2008, 08:53 PM
I have a convertible but I'd have to sell it 4 times to afford an MG.

I have fired a subMG before and it was definitely quit a thrill. But I doubt I would ever invest in one. and I certainly wouldn't sell every other gun for one.

I LIKE IT!
November 29, 2008, 09:56 PM
The cost of owning an MG if your in poor like me is quite a detterent but I figured F-it I'm doing it, my piece of the American dream.

I know I'm breaking arm and leg to reach the dream but at the end I figure it's my little F-U to those who would say otherwise.
:evil:

Javelin
November 29, 2008, 10:06 PM
If you get a registered SEER for $14K-ish for an MP5 you can put it in any MP5-style firearm and then you never need to worry about the host platform breaking and not being able to get another.

Same with a M16 SEER ($13Kish)...

Submachineguns are going to be cheaper and more enjoyable than machineguns because you can effectively suppress your sub and shoot for cheaper and at more ranges. Just my .02 cents... I do not own one as I cannot afford to feed it and got most of that crap out of my system in the military.

:)

cliffy
November 29, 2008, 10:20 PM
Are ridiculous, except during wartime. Shooting a deer for food should require two shoots: one to stop it and one to end any suffering. Often one shot will suffice for both, but a back-up shot produces a true sportsman. A one shot-one kill is often a waiting game that no real sportsman should ever tolerate. Spraying the field with a flurry of bullets most often accomplishes nothing. Full-Autos are only needed for firepower in fire fights where life and death hang in the balance. Shooting a deer for food does not qualify. cliffy

JR47
November 30, 2008, 11:54 AM
Are ridiculous, except during wartime. Shooting a deer for food should require two shoots: one to stop it and one to end any suffering. Often one shot will suffice for both, but a back-up shot produces a true sportsman. A one shot-one kill is often a waiting game that no real sportsman should ever tolerate. Spraying the field with a flurry of bullets most often accomplishes nothing. Full-Autos are only needed for firepower in fire fights where life and death hang in the balance. Shooting a deer for food does not qualify. cliffy

Look, Jim Zumbo is here!!

The problem with sear-kits is that BATFE regards the kit as the machine gun. That means if any part of the sear kit fails, only the original manufacturer of the sear-kit can replace it. Try finding a sear, disconnector, etc. for a 1945 Underwood today. The registered Class 3 weapon can use any part correct for the gun, no matter who made it.

lencac
November 30, 2008, 12:19 PM
Full-auto = hungry beast = lots of ammo = lots of money = pissed wife = divorce = lose home = sell full-auto = back to square 1 = broke, busted and discussed :banghead:
I say NO. Shoot, I have a hard enough time feeding my semi stuff :cuss:

Al Thompson
November 30, 2008, 01:20 PM
JR, not true - Zumbo was coherent. :D

natecade1
November 30, 2008, 01:51 PM
Are ridiculous, except during wartime.

That may be, but the fact still remains that citizens should definitely have the right to own them. After all, should we the people ever need to over through a corrupt and oppressive gov't it might just be considered a war (ie. "wartime") and I doubt the gov't would be providing it's citizens with full auto weapons, so it is important for us to have them already.


Disclaimer:
I have no plans or foresight of ever over throwing a governing body. However, that is what the 2A is in place for should the need ever arise.

mudriver
November 30, 2008, 02:27 PM
I wasn't going to buy a FA - but my wife talked me into a 9mm subgun a long time ago (should have bought more). I still think FA for civilians are really nothing but lead sprayers but I call my subgun the 'crowd pleaser'.

if you let some friends shoot your subgun they will have a priceless smile after 2 or 3 mags. Our subgun is worth it just for those experiences.

I would only get a subgun - I never enjoyed shooting assault rifles in FA. An Uzi or MP5 type gun is cheaper to feed, more controllable and easy for anyone to shoot. I can't afford to feed a belt fed.

lefteyedom
November 30, 2008, 03:17 PM
Full auto.... Good investment but otherwise a waste.

I spent 20 years in the AF Security Police trying to break kids of the urge to ROCK AND ROLL, GETSUM GETSUM,,,,,,,Boneheads.
It was dumb in training and deadly in combat. Aim shots even when being used as suppression fire were always better on semi.
Remember the rule of 3s...
30 days without food
3 days without water
3 minutes without air
but not 3 MutherF**King seconds without AMMO!!

Gunnerpalace
November 30, 2008, 03:27 PM
Gun Clubs are expected to include Liability Insurance. Some of them don't allow unrestricted use of Class 3 weapons because of that Policy.

I believe the NRA wrote those guidelines,

To all the anit-FA people, your bolt action rifle that can hit at 600yd's it is more accurate than the FA's, guess what the anti's will do next.................

Thin Black Line
November 30, 2008, 04:20 PM
"Every man should own a machine-gun and a convertible-top automobile once in his life. That way he'll know he never wants to own another one."

Does issued and/or rented count?

jaholder1971
November 30, 2008, 08:42 PM
I'd love to have one, but I'd never sell stuff to buy one.

rscalzo
November 30, 2008, 08:59 PM
Fortunatly I was able to play with all the full auto toys on the department's dime. We had a mint Thompson complete with the drum magazine. Moved up to AC556K's. Never warmed to them as we always had failures with them. We had one of the first M-16's off the line. It was bought by the old Chief for the Newark riots in the 60's. It has a three didgit SN. Slick side with a three prong flash supressor. They traded it for a song. We now have MP5's and SA Colt AR15A2's.

FA was fun for a while but after a while, SA was just fine.

The only FA that really was a kick was getting to go along with one of my Patrol Sergeant's down to Ft. Dix when he trained some Marines and Navy personnel. A was allowed to play with the M2 BMG. Now that I would pay to own. The Mark 19 wasn't half as much fun....Burning up taxpayer ammo was even a better deal.

zombienerd
November 30, 2008, 09:22 PM
How about go cheaper?

http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/m2?set=06&sz=1280x897

Even cheaper:
http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/sw76?set=11&sz=1280x897

http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/sten?set=08&sz=1280x897

http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/mac10?set=33&sz=1280x897

BeltfedMG
December 1, 2008, 10:27 PM
As for cheap, the kids take the M16 with the .22ceiner kit in it and bag full of 30 rnd mags and shoot frogs all day, full auto .22's at 900 RPM is just plain fun. And yes, it runs 100% reliable even in F/A in .22. I dont shoot the beltfeds due to its not justifieable anymore to shoot 10,000 rnds in a couple hrs like we used to when we got the ammo brought to us by tractor trailors for .03 rnd when bought in bulk, them days are gone, so now its time to get cal conversions and play cheap again. When you get bored with one MG just buy another, i just bought the wife a MP5 for christmas, there will be a MP5, and 2 cases of 9mm under the tree for her, ill be knee deep in pu%%y for a month when she gets it. HA

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 12:21 PM
BfMG, are you going to start mining for lead anytime soon?

Beagle-zebub
December 2, 2008, 05:04 PM
Does issued and/or rented count?

That goes for blondes, too.

mljdeckard
December 2, 2008, 05:19 PM
I just sold my deceased father-in-law's '91 Mustang LX 5.0 convertible for $2k. It booked at about $2750, but that's selling a niche car in a slow economy in the fall.

I have a couple of local ranges that rent full-auto when I feel the need and I can actually afford the ammo.

I shot everything from small arms to tank weapons during my first stretch in the army. Having come back in, I have not once itched to switch my M-16 to burst. I REALLY just don't care.

Also remember, if you ever use a FA weapon in LEGITIMATE self defense, the odds are that the DA won't be able to believe that it was justified. There are VERY few historical exceptions to this. If you kill someone with an FA, you are going to be prosecuted, period. By this I guess I mean, get one if you want to, but keep your other ones for reasonable HD/SD use.

I'd rather get a motorcycle.

Joe Demko
December 2, 2008, 05:40 PM
Motorcycles rock.

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