Where are the PARENTS in a case like this?


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Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 28, 2008, 10:14 AM
NH Student with Gun at School Faces Expulsion
BEDFORD, N.H. (AP) The Bedford High School student accused of bringing an unloaded handgun to school may face expulsion. Principal George H. Edwards said the state's Safe Schools law mandates that any student found guilty of bringing a gun or weapon to school faces expulsion by the school board for at least 12 months.
School administrators found the .38-caliber gun in the boy's backpack while investigating a rumor circulating the school. The student surrendered the gun without incident and was turned over to the Bedford Police. Bedford police and school officials said they believe this was an isolated incident.
http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=146&ArticleID=42874
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I wonder where the parents are when I read something like this.

If they are educating the child about the use of guns, then the child should know that this is not only illegal but dangerous.

Doesn't the person carrying the pistol need to be 21 years of age?

If the child is irresponsible, then the parents should have the pistol in a location where the child cannot find it (or, better yet, locked in a safe).

Two questions up for discussion:
1) How do you see something like this taking place?
2) How can we help prevent similar scenarios from taking place without having to go to extremes and banning guns altogether?

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Lone_Gunman
November 28, 2008, 10:31 AM
Why do you think the parents even knew he had a gun?

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 28, 2008, 10:38 AM
I must admit, in today's world, and the things kids get away with (just look at crazy stuff on YouTube and other video sites), the parents may well have had NO IDEA "little Johnny" had this weapon.

That is EVEN SCARIER!:what:

Art Eatman
November 28, 2008, 12:44 PM
This is a legal forum, not a parenting forum. So, the proper question would be about what law if any would "solve" this problem? Then, how would it be enforced? Last, how efficacious would it likely be?

WardenWolf
November 28, 2008, 12:47 PM
No law would solve this, but the best solution would be teaching your teenage kid to never touch your guns except in a dire emergency (after first teaching them to use them safely).

JImbothefiveth
November 28, 2008, 12:53 PM
Maybe this should be moved to general.


I think there's a very good possibility the parents didn't know he had the gun.

kingpin008
November 28, 2008, 03:03 PM
My first thought - if he's old enough to be in high school, he's old enough to lie to his parents. He's also old enough to make stupendously bad choices.

So that means, if it was his parents' gun, all the good parenting in the world doesn't mean that he's going to listen, or care at that age. They could have had it locked up, and he still could have gotten it if he wanted it bad enough.

So, let's not blame the parents when we don't have a complete understanding of the facts.

ants
November 28, 2008, 03:57 PM
Are there other criminal violations (perhaps regarding larceny or vandalism) where the legal guardian is held criminally or even civily responsible? If not, it would not seem reasonable to apply parental responsibility to juvenile gun law violations.

Another question: The school district expels the student, but possession of a gun on campus may also be in violation of other state laws. Are these kids ever prosecuted in court? Or just slapped with expulsion (they wanted to get out of school anyway)?

So it would appear that kids carry guns to school because there are no real consequences.
Maybe the solution is to apply the laws we have, and gain control through effective law enforcement and juris prudence.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 28, 2008, 04:04 PM
So, let's not blame the parents when we don't have a complete understanding of the facts.

I'm not blaming anyone, I was only asking a question. No mention is made of the parents in the article, yet we are apparently talking about a NON-adult. Shouldn't the parents be INVOLVED in this if the "child" is less than 21?

moi_self26
November 28, 2008, 04:20 PM
If the child is under 18, then they are responsible for the child. It doesn't matter how other people parent (or lack thereof) THEIR children, a RESPONSIBLE parent CAN and WILL keep close tabs on their child enough to keep them from doing something this STUPID.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 28, 2008, 05:09 PM
Thank you moi_self26.
I couldn't have said it better, that's why I didn't say it.

Thanks.

kingpin008
November 28, 2008, 05:27 PM
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you try keeping tabs on a high school-age kid all day every day and tell me how successful you are.

Once they get around that age, it's damn near impossible. Yes, the gun should have been locked up, and for all we know it was, and the kid somehow managed to steal the combo or sneak it out in some other way.

We do not have all the facts here. All the good parenting and proper gun safety training in the world will not sink in if the kid who's being taught doesn't care or just isn't listening.

That's all I'm saying.

Art Eatman
November 29, 2008, 11:07 AM
This seems to be another in a long string of stories about how gun control laws don't work.

Some years back--I'm weak on the grimy details--a 14-year-old kid broke the lock on his father's gun cabinet. He took a rifle, a pistol and a shotgun to school, and there was a hostage/standoff deal for a few hours before he peacefully surrendered.

Tom Teepen, anti-gun editor of the Atlanta unConstitution, claimed that the event showed why we needed the Assault Weapon Ban.

I've always said that once a kid hits the age of hacksaw, all bets are off.

I don't particularly want to close this thread, but why not let it die? Not much to say, really. Seems like most THR folks have similar views about parental responsibility...

JImbothefiveth
November 29, 2008, 11:18 AM
It's a felony to bring guns to a school zone(they have a sign saying that at every school I've ever seen), an all this kid gets is expulsion?

I think that the blame lies more with the kid than the parents in this case, he's in high school, he might have even gotten the gun from someone in the school. (Sadly, kids can get drugs in school, so it would make sense they can get illegal guns, too) :(

arcticap
November 29, 2008, 02:42 PM
Doesn't the person carrying the pistol need to be 21 years of age?
New Hampshire issues CCW permits to 18 year olds.

JImbothefiveth
November 29, 2008, 02:50 PM
New Hampshire issues CCW permits to 18 year olds.
Even if he was 18, it's illegal to carry a gun in a school.

What really boggles me is that this is a gun free zone, Michael Moore said it was impossible for something like this to happen in a gun free zone. :rolleyes: Michael Moore wouldn't lie, would he?

catfish101
November 29, 2008, 03:07 PM
If the child is under 18, then they are responsible for the child. It doesn't matter how other people parent (or lack thereof) THEIR children, a RESPONSIBLE parent CAN and WILL keep close tabs on their child enough to keep them from doing something this STUPID.

Being a parent, I can say that this is a remark from a non parent or a very lucky one.

With that said, I spend allot of time with the kids and I feel very good in how they look at things in general but peer pressure is the hardest thing to parent against. I have made a special attempt to combat this problem at an early age an I feel like I am winning.

This young adult in this case should be punished by current laws, weather we agree with them or not.

moi_self26
November 29, 2008, 03:25 PM
Being a parent, I can say that this is a remark from a non parent or a very lucky one.

With that said, I spend allot of time with the kids and I feel very good in how they look at things in general but peer pressure is the hardest thing to parent against. I have made a special attempt to combat this problem at an early age an I feel like I am winning.

This young adult in this case should be punished by current laws, weather we agree with them or not.

Actually, I AM a parent. My child is still young, but I know it can be done. My mom was a single working mother, she worked as many as 5 jobs at a time, she always knew where me and my siblings were, and when we weren't with her we were with responsible trust worthy people. I NEVER would have had a chance in hell with getting away with anything like that.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 29, 2008, 04:23 PM
I agree, the punishment should be under current laws, the same as an adult.

nksmfamjp
November 29, 2008, 06:25 PM
I'll be honest with you. . .First, if my little Johnny bad a$$ wanted to bring a gun to high school, there is no parental action at that time which could stop them. Sure, it won't be mine, but we are fooling ourselves if we think our kids cannot get a small handgun past us.

The time for parental action is 0 - 13. After 13, we are just helping and supporting their decision making process. Right and wrong have to be taught young.

BTW, your kid will see someone close to them with a gun out of parental control. They need to know how to react to the situation. Period.

On to laws to solve this problem. First repeal the weapons free zone laws. Yea, then a responsible person like me can come into a science, history, socialogy or heath class and teach high school kids for a week about what they need to know about guns and also, invite them to the school shooting club or to a hunter's safety class. See, by making weapon free zones, the schools create target zones and also got the kids hopped up on the "guns are a cool thing I can't have" mentality.

An hour of putting guns safely in these kids hands would cause that to pass away. The invitations to gun ownership primer programs like shooting club, hunter's safety, etc. Could prime them for successful gun use and ownership as adults.

Now, they just get their first job, buy an AK47 or SKS and show up at my range without the slightest knowledge of safe handling, shooting or anything. All they know is I got this gun and ammo. I'll blast 100 rounds off here from the hip, drive around with it loaded in my car, get drunk with it loaded next to me. . .smoke some weed. . .oh yea, now I got some good shooting ideas!

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 29, 2008, 06:40 PM
I remember when I was 12 or 13, I had a 22 target rifle and was shooting NRA 50 foot indoor (I ended up working up to Sharpshooter 3rd bar!). I shot a lot in the local YMCA basement, but there was a private school nearby where I occasionally shot in THIER RANGE.

That's right, the school had their own indoor rifle range.

When I was in Junior High, we had various "clubs" after school two days a week (before the buses came). I remember being in the Rod & Gun Club. This would have been around 1968. I thought they meant "cleaning rods."

I was a bit disappointed to find fishermen there as I was into guns more than fishing. LOL!

swiftak
November 29, 2008, 07:02 PM
I think that the people who are blaming the parents for this kids actions probably never had kids, or at least teenagers. If they do, and they think they know everything the kid is doing or think the kid always tells them the truth are living in a dreamworld.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 30, 2008, 06:25 AM
I think it is how the child is raised before they are even a teenager.

Raise a child up in the way he should go and he will not depart from it.

jpk1md
November 30, 2008, 10:32 AM
Folks, its not illegal for a minor to possess a pistol in NH.

Here are the legal means which he or she can obtain one as per law.

159:12 Sale to Minors.
I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
II. This section shall not apply to:
(a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.
(b) Individuals instructing minors in the safe use of firearms during a supervised firearms training program, provided the minor's parent or legal guardian has granted the minor permission to participate in such program.
(c) Licensed hunters accompanying a minor while lawfully taking wildlife.
(d) Individuals supervising minors using firearms during a lawful shooting event or activity.

As to the legality of carrying concealed there is nothing in the law that sets a minimum age for the issue of a pistol permit.

Regarding the legality of carry in a school, SCOTUS struck down the law in the Lopez case in 1995 based upon the fact that Congress made a bogus attempt to regulate under the Interstate Commerce Clause.

This decision is supported by a later case US v Morrison in 2000

Congress went back after being chastised by SCOTUS and rewrote the law in an attempt to circumvent the decision but it it thin and weak at best and to date no one has been charged under the rewrite.

So...however unlikely it is nonetheless possible that the kids possession was entirely lawful.

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