HD Shooter
November 28, 2008, 03:10 PM
Tried several different ammos with no success. The firearm was sent back to Beretta. Anybody got any experience with them? How fast are they , etc.?
Thanks :banghead:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
heavyshooter
November 28, 2008, 10:28 PM
Add another voice to the anti-Beretta camp. About 1 1/2 years ago I purchased a Beretta Tomcat for my wife. We took it to the range and it started malfunctioning almost immediately. It would FTF or FTE at least once per magazine. I assumed that it needed to be broken in. I thought that after putting a couple hundred rounds though it we would be okay. That never happened. I was on YOUTUBE and I found a video review of a Beretta Tomcat and the reviewer said that his Beretta was jamming because of a cracked frame. I retrieved mine and sure enough, the frame was cracked. I checked online and discovered that I was not alone. I called Beretta and the fiasco began.
I could go into the details of the poor customer service, but suffice it to say that I was not pleased. Keep in mind that I am not an unreasonable person, so I am not referring to one act of poor service. It was a litany of things. The guy even blamed me for the cracked frame!!! I asked how so many people are getting cracked frames if it is not a defective gun. He responded, "Maybe you are using hot loads that were not intended for this gun." I told him that I have only used the ammo that they recommend in their owner’s manual. After an uncomfortable pause he said, "Send it in and we will look at it." I had put less than 50 rounds through the gun at this point. I sent it to them and three months later I received a new gun. I promptly traded it in for a more reliable weapon.
My experience with that bunch has sworn me off on Beretta's FOREVER. :barf:
MEGA DITTOS to PX15!!! I will never buy another Beretta again (which is messed up because those over and under shotguns look pretty sweet). Not because of the defective weapon, but because of the defective customer service. The fact that Tomcats are crappy did not help.
Heavy
sm
November 29, 2008, 04:11 AM
Re: Beretta Tomcat.
I recommend these now.
Back in the day when the Tomcat was also offered with XO sights and called the Alley Cat, there were some problems.
I was asked to assist in testing and evaluation of this gun and one use was for Undercover LEO, Private armed Security and another reason was that of Physically Limited Persons.
Some folks while they can rack a slide, having been born without a arm below elbow, do not want to. Nor does the Cop that lost partial fingers and underwent hand/wrist/arm surgery.
Officer down, was another reason the Jetfire, and Bobcat , also tip ups were and are still used.
My Alley Cats never missed a beat, and held up.
UCs buddy had the slide break on the two he was testing.
Beretta is a top notch company, and in communications, Beretta said that gun was not designed to run the high round counts. They also admitted , and were very embarrassed, with some problems they were having.
Cops said, they did not want to carry a gun they could not train with. Beretta understood, and respected this.
Beretta asked me/us about ammo, as they had gotten some inquiries about folks having problems with ammo.
My reply was simple: Use Fiocchi FMJ or another quality European FMJ
And for a JHP, the Winchester STHP.
The Win STHP, in any caliber, always runs the guns. Ogive is right on this load.
Shot placement means the gun has to run. So I shared with Beretta, as I did the cops and Physically Limited.
It doesn't make tinker's damn to me, what some hot babe, or studpuppy uses in a movie, what some magazine ad says, or anything.
None of these folks have ever been around when I had incoming bullets...
So...
Undercover went back to various snub nose, and kept using the Jetfires, and Bobcats.
I kept testing and piddling as Beretta , being Beretta and has Class, fixed these up, no charge.
Amongst another group, I testing and evaluating for, was armed private security as I said...
Including ladies.
Areas "might" include NPEs ( non permissive environments to weapons).
Accepted was, these guns were not to be shot as we were accustomed to shooting a gun we carried.
I mean some of the ladies alone, would run 100 rds of buckshot and slugs in a day, or 100 rds a day through a carry gun...
Don't hand these folks .22 rim-fire, as they did a lot of dry fire practice and rim-fire shooting and they would go through bricks or bulk packs like candy in a day.
So these guns were shot, with mags, deemed good to go, and actually used.
The ladies did not use holsters. Not in the conventional sense.
Instead their clothing was tweaked with "holsters" if you will. Heck, gals and guys were doing this before I was born in the mid 50s....
never did understand all this whining about holsters some seem to do...
I mean if a 5' 1" gal can carry a full size 1911 Cocked and Locked, and not get made, then this Tomcat is going to be a piece of cake.
Just have the folks that alter clothes to their thing...
Then the problem with the Early Tomcats was fixed. I finally busted mine at around 20K. Granted , most of you folks are not going to be kicking yours across a asphalt parking lot, or hardwood floor, or tossing it, and it hitting the inside of a shoot house a bit too hard.
But hey, nobody guarantees it will be a nice sunny day, dry, and you will have a gym mat or nice soft grass , and you will stay on your feet when your gun fight happens.
So...there are LEOs using Tomcats, as are some private security folks, and the one tweak they do, is add a gold bead front sight. Gold bead front sight is what they do on carry guns, period!
Tidbits:
I don't know what teh Intrawe3z was saying about these guns, as I and mine were not paying much attention to such. Granted not many folks had a PC or 'Net connection and those that did were using 'bulletin boards', not a forum such as THR is.
-Plastic stocks will break, if tightened too much. Snug and run with it.
-If you are going to use gun scrubber, or brake cleaner, remove stocks and put in another room. Those products will melt the stocks, even just a bit of residue on a rag, or hands will.
-There are springs, levers under Beretta stocks, them spaghetti folks do like their springs, levers and what not.
*said with respect, still gotta razz*
If you are feeling like a bull in china closet, don't mess a gun period, much less this one, or any Beretta once the stocks are off.
-Factory Magazines! Only.
-Cleaning.
#&^%$#!
These are guns, if you want to play taking stuff apart and putting something back together, get a set of Lincoln Logs or Tinker Toys.
These are serious tools, these firearms.
Early days, the manual said solvent and good gun oil. So I used Hoppe's No.9 and Browning Gun Oil from a Tin can as I still had plenty of this set back.
( I wished this stuff was still available, the can is worth as much as $65 to collectors) Great oil, I miss it.
New manual says use a CLP. Beretta said on hinge pins I/we could use a grease, and STOS by Ponsess Warren is what I used. I base this off of its use on Shotgun hinge pins, and having put 30k rds through a shotgun in one year. STOS will hold up to 500 rds a day for 7 days straight.
Trust me on this. I and mine know this, as we did it.
Focus on chamber and extraction. I and mine run guns to learn what the gun like, and it will tell us when it needs something. We do Inspect, and Maintain.
I have run one 1k rounds without "cleaning" but I did use a pipe cleaner to clean chamber, extraction, and lube with Browning Gun Oil, Beretta Gun Oil, Rem-oil and Breakfree lCLP.
Now the actual having to clean the thing.
RIG Grease STOS or Johnson Paste Wax ( yellow can) was under the stocks, hence the reason we never had rust under the stocks, even in the hot, humid summer days of the South.
Just a light Film.
I really am not into "sprays" and prefer to inspect and maintain while I use cotton applicators and pipe cleaners with liquid.
I don't clean barrels either, chambers yes, bores...unless lead bullets are used....
...which we did have some 32ACP ctg reloaded with lead bullets.
( fella is dead now, but these loads were great, and run like a top in these guns)
That said, Spray this puppy down with Rem-oil, or Breafree CLP and let sit.
Use long cotton applicator, pipe cleaner soft, child's toothbrush, Spray again, hit with a air hose or can of compressed air, like used on computers.
Then lube correctly , and inspect and maintain.
What this gun has, is "it points naturally" for a LOT of folks. Strong or weak hand, too many folks that I have assisted or been out assisting, with - name any gun as we had a lots of guns for everyone to try for gun fit to them, and this gun, just "fits" a lot of folks, period.
It has gun weight to load ratio that works. Akin to Rule of 96 with shotguns.
The recoil curve is such, folks shoot it well, and get back on , stay on target for quick effective hits.
-Safe
I was raised to NOT top off mags.
Mags are part of the running of the gun.
Even in the mid 50s, when I was a brat, there were places where one had to make a gun safe. Like the jail, or courthouse, or even the prison. Yeah, this was back when, and this was civilians doing this.
You don't want a "top off" round, missing or not being accounted for. Common Courtesy, and whatever else.
1911, drop mag, rack slide, put that round back in the 7 round mag.
Any semi, we did this.
Beretta, means one can tip bbl, drop mag, and I have never heard of a shooting barrel being shot with a tip up.
Ladies like this gun, especially with kids. They wear the gun at home, still a kid is curious, and a parent lets a kid see, handle, and ask questions, as much as they want.
This Tomcat, and other tip ups are great for this, piece of mind for a lady and kids can sense they are safe. They all say so.
Yeah the kid will flip that lever to tip up barrel umpteen bazillion times, as its cool , still the gun can take it.
The kids get this "gun stuff" out of their system and the mystery is answered and another mystery to drive mom nuts takes its place.
Introducing new shooters, and using this gun is proven to be a good one. Before the actual shooting, the kitchen table sit down and going over Rules of Safety and everything else, is done, including seeing the guns that will be shot.
This Tomcat is a good one, and the new person knows, you are are concerned about their safety and will have their safety, at the top of the list.
Ditto for all the tip up Berettas.
Travel and having to enter/exit no CCW areas. This gun and other tip ups are just too easy to unload, and make safe in a vehicle and too easy to make hot once past a jurisdiction as well.
Physically Limited folks really like and shoot this gun well. They use snap caps a lot for dry fire practice.
Some have permanent physical limits, others are those recovering from surgery, or just flare ups with arthritis.
I have messed with Beretta tip ups since I was a wee brat born in the mid 50s. Some models are discontinued. My first conceal carry gun, was a Beretta Minx (.22 short) when I was in the 3rd grade. My next was the Jetfire in 25ACP.
Back before "permits" and "licenses" were such a thing.
I and mine carry/ carried various Beretta Tips ups. Some Mentors ... had spent time out of the USA, or still did.
And I do mean places were some "Police" are not nice like a Beat Cop that gets your stuck penny out of a gum ball machine.
In defense of country , preserving freedom and fighting tyranny, ...some of the opposing side died from these tip up Berettas, including those in .22 short, .22 long rifle, and 25ACP.
FWIW the knives carried and proven with these were pen knives. Just a 3" or less in closed length, no assist opening, no lock.
Teh Intraweb3z was not around back then , but my information came from that that had btdt, or were in such areas.and "btdt-ing".
Disrespect the guns and calibers, if you choose, never disrespect my Mentors & Elders.
Never.
sm
November 29, 2008, 05:12 AM
denfoote,
Serves you right! *wink*
I pay attention to your posts and respect your experiences. You have been the reason some have a Walther PP, or some other firearm you shared about.
I am protective with my tight circle, still I pay attention, and shared with my tight circle, and I said, this denfoote person knows...
So they tried before they bought, and yeah, denfoote was right.
I knew that, but you know how some folks are, especially gals...*grin*
It is I that thanks you.
deputy tom is another...and ,
oh phooey, and the rest of you folks know who you
are...(lot of you folks are my go to folks on stuff...seriously.)
paradox998
November 29, 2008, 10:26 PM
I had two tomcats with cracked frames. The first one was purchased new and cracked within the first 60 rounds. Ammo was Winchester white box, nothing with extra punch. Beretta replaced it with another Tomcat and it also cracked. After that they gave me a 92fs. Stay away from the blued Tomcats and if you get one, look very carefully at the thin part of the frame on the right side above the trigger. P.S. My Tomcats were new in December 2007 and June 2008.
Phantom Captain
November 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
I've had only good experiences with mine. I have the INOX version though and have read they are much stronger and don't crack as the blued versions seem too. I've got about 500 rounds through mine mostly Sellier & Belliot or American Eagle FMJs.
No FTFs or FTEs so far although as sm stated you don't want to tighten the grips too tight, only snug. Noticed they can bind things a bit if you tighten them too much and realized this on a reassembly after cleaning.
They are surprisingly accurate for the small size and barrel length and very easy to handle and shoot. I too love the tip up barrel as does my girlfriend. She loves it especially for the tip up and light recoil as my other carry gun, Walther PPK/s .380, can really beat up your hand after a few mags through it. Not so with the .32 Tomcat. I have total confidence in mine.
Most of all I love how small and concealable it is. It's the definite "go anywhere" gun. In the summer I can drop it into the front pocket of a pair of cargo shorts and no one is the wiser. I also bought an extra mag as I just like to always have a spare regardless of what I'm carrying.
DarkSoldier
December 2, 2008, 11:58 PM
My experience with the Tomcat was positive. I used it as second BUG in cool weather. I put a lot of rounds (FMJ & JHP) through it with no problems. I retired it when the LCP came out to upgrade to the .380. More power in a smaller gun. No problems with the Ruger either (other than the recall). Functions perfectly at aprox 300 rounds.
Respectfully,
DarkSoldier
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