Garand 30-06


PDA






JImbothefiveth
November 28, 2008, 12:34 PM
I was wondering, can Garands only be used with standard military ammunition, or something with close to the same weight/velocity, or can they also be used with heavier load, such as 180 grain bullets, and the 200 grain bullet supershoulderdestroyers?

Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Garand 30-06" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
scythefwd
November 28, 2008, 12:49 PM
No heavier than 180 Gr. Use only surpluss ammo unless you have an adjustable gas nut on it. If you search schuster adjustable gas plug, you will come up with options. Before you shoot commercial ammo, I would replace the gas plug or you run the risk of bending your oprod. Some people have had luck shooting commercial ammo out of them, but some people haven't and I won't risk mine doing it. It is your rifle, it's your choice.

JImbothefiveth
November 28, 2008, 12:57 PM
I ask because I was thinking about getting a Garand, but now I think I'll pass.

scythefwd
November 28, 2008, 01:10 PM
the gas plug I believe is 35 dollars and is a self installable item. The the only restriction you have is 180 gr and below. I can't think of anything on the NA continent that can't be taken with that round.

JImbothefiveth
November 29, 2008, 11:03 AM
So, let me get that straight: with an an adjustable gas plug, heavy loads are fine, as long as they're 180 grains or below, correct? Any limits on velocity, so long as I stay within SAAMI pressure?

Now it's starting to sound more appealing.

lipadj46
November 29, 2008, 11:58 AM
If you want to shoot those heavy bullets especially 200 grain I would just get a bolt gun. If you need to be talked into a grand it's probably not for you anyways. Depends what you are looking to do, you can hunt with a garand but there are more suitable hunting rifles out there. If you want a cheap kick @#s battle rifle get a CMP garand and load up on surplus greek ammo while they are still available.

cuervo
November 29, 2008, 07:19 PM
You would also need to be careful of the primers with some commercial ammo. Garands have a floating firing pin which will hit the primer as the bolt closes. Soft primers can slam fire.

TEDDY
November 29, 2008, 07:26 PM
you can load for the garand.or use standard 150gr soft point.too much pressure is not good for the rifle.I am going to be loading for mine with 170 gr lead.and I will load to just work the action.I done beleave in max loads.the 44/40 was a main stay before the kabamas. :rolleyes::uhoh::D

Bob the Average
November 30, 2008, 03:28 AM
I have one and i regularly shoot 180Gr rounds and it works just fine and is very accurate. it will even work with Remington accelerator rounds which aren't supposed to work with semi-autos

BHP FAN
November 30, 2008, 03:48 AM
My boy uses the American Eagle off the shelf ammo in his and it works fine,and then I can load the brass back up for him.

dmazur
November 30, 2008, 04:10 AM
You would also need to be careful of the primers with some commercial ammo. Garands have a floating firing pin which will hit the primer as the bolt closes. Soft primers can slam fire.

While there is nothing wrong with being extremely careful when dealing with semi-auto military rifles like the Garand, the statements about floating firing pins hitting primers aren't the entire story.

The Garand has an L-shaped firing pin. There is a part of the receiver called the "bridge" which keeps the firing pin from moving forward until the bolt is cammed into place by the operating rod. Once the bolt rotates, there is a notch in the bridge that allows the firing pin to move forward.

Of course, Garands are typically 50-60 years old and many have fired thousands of rounds. Some have been rebuilt by qualified armorers, and some have not. If these parts are worn, they aren't going to work as designed.

However, IMO, you should replace or repair worn parts and get the rifle back into spec. CCI #34 primers are no guarantee of preventing a out-of-battery event if the firing pin tail is really badly worn.

So, I believe a better statement might be "Garands have a floating firing pin which may hit the primer as the bolt closes, depending on the rifle's condition. Harder primers provide an additional margin of safety against slam fires if the firing pin/bridge is out of spec."

But I'll acknowledge that this is a bit wordy... :)

SlamFire1
November 30, 2008, 07:54 AM
You would also need to be careful of the primers with some commercial ammo. Garands have a floating firing pin which will hit the primer as the bolt closes. Soft primers can slam fire.

Sensitive primers are the primary mechanism of slamfires. The Garand has a long and particulary heavy firing pin. While the receiver bridge is supposed to prevent slamfires, enough slamfires occur, and have occured with military ammunition, it is obvious that the receiver bridge does not work as advertised.

The majority of slamfires reported by highpower shooters in their Garands, were with Federal primers. The most sensitive primer on the market.

All one has to do is look at how many mechanisms use spring retarded firing pins to understand that the designers were trying to reduce firing pin impact on the primer.

The FAL, the AR10, the Russian SKS's are examples. Note all the slamfire problems with Chinese SKS's which do not have springs to hold the firing pin.

And then, Galils:

20 Feb 2008 Shotgun News,
Article “ Micro Galil, The Ultimate Krinkov”
Author Peter Kokalis
Page 12

“Most Kalashnikovs have inertia firing pins, without an associated spring. The initial lot of Galils brought into this country by Magnum Research INC. also had no firing pin springs. The Micro Galils that I examined in El Salvador were not equipped with spring-loaded firing pins either.

Military small arms ammunition primers usually have relatively hard cups, which are not easily touched off. American commercial cal .223 Rem ammunition, including Winchester ammunition often features fairly soft primer cups. In 1983, Winchester ammunition in particular caused several slam-fires and all Galils offered for sale in the United States were quickly retrofitted with strong firing pin strings. “

Back in the July 1961, and later in the dope bag, the NRA "debunked" criticisms of the Garand firing mechanisms. The NRA had particularly close relations with the military back then, and tended to accept the military assurances that nothing was wrong with the rifle; problems were all due to those stupid civilians and their sloppy reloading practices. So, as good sock puppets, the NRA technical group types parroted the explanations they were given.

These explanations were wrong, but they get reprinted all the time in NRA publications. And repeated.

MachIVshooter
November 30, 2008, 10:13 AM
The FAL, the AR10, the Russian SKS's are examples. Note all the slamfire problems with Chinese SKS's which do not have springs to hold the firing pin.

Armalite AR-10's have a firing pin spring. Can't comment on the DPMS rifles, though.

Harve Curry
November 30, 2008, 10:47 AM
About the pressure curve and loads for the M1 Garand;
Is the pressure at the gas port supposed to be about 18,000 PSI ?
The op rod in Garands is light weight with a slight curve to it, if the pressures to high then it can bend it to where it rubs on the inside wood of the hand guard.
Is there a dedicated M1 Garand website?

Swampy
November 30, 2008, 11:11 AM
Is the pressure at the gas port supposed to be about 18,000 PSI ?

GOOD GRIEF NO !!!! :what::what::what:

Design gas port pressure in the M1 is between 4k and 6k psi.

18k at the gas port would snap the op-rod like a pretzel stick and send the bolt back through the rear of the receiver.

Just as an FYI.... Back in the 50's, when the M1 rifle was first being made available to civilian Highpower competitors the techies at SA (The REAL one.) sent the following info about M1 ammo out to the NRA and CMP to pass along to shooters.

Rules for M1 Gas System Safe Loads:

1) NEVER load bullets HEAVIER than 180 grains
2) NEVER load powder that is SLOWER than IMR-4320

Both of these rules must be observed. Violating either rule has the effect of flattening the pressure curve and raising the tail of the curve (Where it passes the gas port.)..... bringing pressure up past the design spec.

Now.... installing an adjustable port gas lock screw allows venting of excess pressure so suspect types of commercial ammo can be safely used without fear of harming the gas system (And ALL commercial ammo is suspect as far as I am concerned.... Until the manufacturers specify the burn rate of the powder used with the bullet weight and lot #, I refuse to shoot any in my M1's.).

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever

Brian Dale
November 30, 2008, 06:38 PM
That leaves more for me...

{Note to self: get that next Greek ammo order together.}

Blacksmoke
November 30, 2008, 09:17 PM
Hornady now offers a cartridges specifically for the Garand. They include a 168 grain FMJ bullet and safe pressures that produce muzzle velocity at 2,700 FPS. The only downside is they are expensive. I bought a few boxes but mostly shoot mil spec ammo bought years ago.

I would no put modern hunting loads through mine unless postive about the pressure. As stated by others, these are mostly old guns with much use. Although, didn't Springfield Armory (the private company) manufacture Garands in the late 80s and early 90s?

Swampy
November 30, 2008, 09:56 PM
Although, didn't Springfield Armory (the private company) manufacture Garands in the late 80s and early 90s?

They did... but the design was identical to USGI with the same ammo requirements.

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever

JImbothefiveth
November 30, 2008, 10:10 PM
If you need to be talked into a grand it's probably not for you anyways.
Actually, I liked the idea of getting a Garand before, and then I heard about the ammo restrictions. Know that I know I can still shoot heavy bullets, it seems more appealing.

Steven Youngblood
November 30, 2008, 11:21 PM
I have an M1 Garand and a 1903, both from CMP, I bought a case of ball ammo from CMP and use it with both. The M1 with the ball ammo is so sweet to shoot. The ball ammo is only $200 bucks for 768 rounds, I went to the local sporting goods store at the beginning of deer season and they charged me $29 bucks for a 20 round box of soft points.
for shooting at the range, I find the ball ammo is pretty accurate, it is greek ammo,non corrosive and boxer primed, so I get to reload.

Harve Curry
December 1, 2008, 05:44 PM
Design gas port pressure in the M1 is between 4k and 6k psi.

Thanks for setting me straight on that PSI numbers Swampy! I only shoot Garand loads.

EMT40SW
December 1, 2008, 05:56 PM
+1 for CMP M1 Garands. Get the best one you can afford, always a good investment. The service grade is an awesome value.

http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

If you enjoyed reading about "Garand 30-06" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!