7.62x54R but using 7.62x51


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X9ballX
November 28, 2008, 02:50 PM
i just bought my mosin nagant i havent shot it yet and i dont have the ammo for it. i have 7.62x51 NATO the kind used in m14s. leftovers from a gunshow. i went to(you know the ones were you rent a gun and buy ammo just to see if you like em) anyways i was wondering if i could use it in my mosin nagant. i dont know much about ammunition and the only gun i have ever shot was a high point pistol caliber carbine and an m14 at a gunshow. i have never seen mosin nagant ammo though i plan on buying some but i wanted to know first if i could do this so i dont waste the ammo i got in my cabinet

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Frightener 88
November 28, 2008, 02:54 PM
No, you cant. Just throwin it out there...The r for 7.62x54r stands for rimmed. Look up an image of that cartridge online, you'll notice the difforence. 7.62x51 is also too short. Im sure there are other more technical reasons, but no. It wont work. And its probably REALLY dangerous.

cracked butt
November 28, 2008, 02:54 PM
i went to(you know the ones were you rent a gun and buy ammo just to see if you like em) anyways i was wondering if i could use it in my mosin nagant
Not only no, but HELL NO!

Don't use ammo in a rifle that its not chambered for if you want to keep all of your appendages intact

mio
November 28, 2008, 02:55 PM
ive heard of the viet cong using .308 ammo out of aks chambered for 7.62x54r however i dont know if its bull or not and i wouldnt try it either way.

X9ballX
November 28, 2008, 02:58 PM
ummm alright...

X9ballX
November 28, 2008, 02:59 PM
hey is 7.62x54r available in gunshops the shop in town dont have em

mljdeckard
November 28, 2008, 03:04 PM
It's bull.

JR47
November 28, 2008, 03:22 PM
As there were zero AKs chambered for the 7.62X54R cartridge during Vietnam, that would explain their ability.

The 7.62x51 is 3mm shorter in the case, uses a .308" bullet, and has no rim. That would make the cartridge too short to reliably chamber and fire, and would pretty much guarantee that it wouldn't extract.

The 7.62x39 cartridge of the AK, is 12 mm shorter than the American cartridge, and wouldn't fit into the magazines, chambers, or any other part of the AK.

Where do we come up with these things?

Heck, even supposedly similar cartridges won't interchange. Like the .303 Savage and the .303 Enfield.:banghead:

Coronach
November 28, 2008, 03:26 PM
To reiterate, NO.

The round will not work. It probably will fail in a perfectly safe manner (not allowing the bolt to go into battery, or failing to do anything if it did), but I would not even try it, regardless. IF it did go into battery and IF it did fire, the results would be, at best, bad for the gun or, at worst, hazardous to your health.

DON'T.

Mike

X9ballX
November 28, 2008, 03:26 PM
well i geuss this answers my question now were do i look to remove this thread from the site

Coronach
November 28, 2008, 03:27 PM
Don't worry about it. Someone else will wonder the same thing some day, do a search, and find this thread.

Mike

X9ballX
November 28, 2008, 04:02 PM
alright now i feel better about my stupid question

now i am gonna try and find an ammo can for nagant bullets and so far i keep getting tins

dscottw88
November 28, 2008, 04:06 PM
I suppose if you have a very long string, and are willing to watch your Nagant blow up that you could. But thats only if you could get the rounds to chamber to begin with. In other words, HELL NO!

mljdeckard
November 28, 2008, 04:35 PM
I got into a shouting match with a sergeant once who insisted than an M-240 (7.62 NATO) could feed "AK ammo" in emergencies. Said you could belt-link it and it would work fine.

Wedge
November 28, 2008, 04:38 PM
I got into a shouting match with a sergeant once who insisted than an M-240 (7.62 NATO) could feed "AK ammo" in emergencies. Said you could belt-link it and it would work fine.

You should have made him demonstrate.

Coronach
November 28, 2008, 04:48 PM
...you don't know many sergeants, do you?

The correct answer is "yes, sergeant" and press on.

Mike

jackdanson
November 28, 2008, 04:52 PM
I got into a shouting match with a sergeant once who insisted than an M-240 (7.62 NATO) could feed "AK ammo" in emergencies. Said you could belt-link it and it would work fine.

The foolishness of some (NOTE I SAID "SOME"!!!!!) military folk never ceases to amaze me.

To OP.. No problem, just don't run it. The first time I bought a .38 special I bought some brand new .38 s&w to load in it.. thankfully I noticed something wasn't right before pulling the trigger.

mljdeckard
November 28, 2008, 05:17 PM
Oh, it wasn't the first OR last time I let my mouth get me into trouble. I think I DID ask him to prove it, and that's when it got interesting. :) Those of us who have been in know there is no foolproof system, it's a question of finding a sufficiently talented fool.

Ash
November 28, 2008, 05:20 PM
There was evidence of 308 being wrapped in tape and used in Mosins during the Bosnian conflict, but I cannot imagine the desperate straits that would make such an action attractive.

Ash

mstirton
November 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Polish_7.62x54R_147grn_Silver_Tip_Light_Ball.html

Just order a couple cases of this. I don't know how many different 7.62 calibers there are so it gets confusing. I have guns in x25, x39, x51, x54, and x63.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3561/hpim0801og9.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim0801og9.jpg)
You want #5 but, to make things worse, you shouldn't use #4 (commercial 308) in a 7.62x51NATO (#3) chambered rifle even though they are "the same". You also can't use #7 (commercial 30-06) in a Garand (#6: 30-06 M2 ball).

elmerfudd
November 28, 2008, 10:06 PM
ive heard of the viet cong using .308 ammo out of aks chambered for 7.62x54r however i dont know if its bull or not and i wouldnt try it either way.

It's bull.

Not entirely. You can fire 7.62x51/.308 out of a 7.62x54R rifle. It's stupid and unsafe, but I have seen it done. Dimensionally the two are very close with the .308 being just a little smaller and it will chamber and fire in a 7.62x54R rifle. It doesn't seem to eject afterward though.

When I saw it done, we were shooting an FAL and a Mosin Nagant side by side and I didn't realize that the guy I was shooting with had loaded the MN magazine with 7.62 NATO. He fired it and then told me that he couldn't get the case to eject. I smacked the bolt handle hard, set the but on the ground and gave the handle a little kick with my foot and it ejected. At the time I thought, man, that was the worst case of 'MN sticky bolt' I've seen yet. When he fired another round and had the same problem I really looked things over and just about crapped my pants when I looked in the magazine.

Back during the Vietnam War though I suspect there were no AK's chambered for 7.62x54R, so in that regard the story is bull. I'm sure they had plenty of Mosin Nagants however, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did fire some 7.62 NATO out of them.

Frog48
November 28, 2008, 10:17 PM
hey is 7.62x54r available in gunshops the shop in town dont have em

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=607

elmerfudd
November 28, 2008, 10:18 PM
The 7.62x51 is 3mm shorter in the case, uses a .308" bullet, and has no rim. That would make the cartridge too short to reliably chamber and fire, and would pretty much guarantee that it wouldn't extract.

The case is 3mm shorter, but the shoulder of the two cases occurs at almost an identical distance from the base of the cartridge. That's why it will fire when chambered. Look closely at the picture that mstirton posted and you can see this.

Again, though I want to reiterate to the OP that although this can be done it's definitely not safe and a very bad idea. The 7.62x51 isn't just the wrong size for the chamber, it's also the wrong pressure.

grimjaw
November 28, 2008, 10:35 PM
The foolishness of some (NOTE I SAID "SOME"!!!!!) military folk never ceases to amaze me.

Having worked for civilians for many years prior to working for the Air Force, I can assure you that foolishness is not limited to the military.

jm

Sunray
November 28, 2008, 11:08 PM
"...The correct answer is "yes, sergeant"..." Nope. It's, "Don't be daft. Sergeant. Now, carry on." To which he replies, "Yes, sir." Salutes and goes on with his work.
"...can't use #7 (commercial 30-06) in a Garand..." Nonsense.

Wedge
November 28, 2008, 11:44 PM
...you don't know many sergeants, do you?

The correct answer is "yes, sergeant" and press on.

Mike

That's my problem...I've spent 1/3 of my life in Academia and "they" require you to just keep pushing it...now I'm in the "real" world, but you always have to be able to "prove it".

I'd probably last about 36 hours in the military at this stage of my life...and yeah I would have asked him to prove it.

Good thing I'm at least really good at push-ups and after Thankmsgiving peeling potatoes!

Ignition Override
November 29, 2008, 02:29 AM
I've seen a Youtube video of a Mauser with an exploded action after the young guy used really old ammo, maybe from WW2. He said something like, "Well, this ammo is about 50-60 years old...so here goes".

Part of the bolt was gone.
He seemed to have the correct type of ammo. Guys say that it is risky to even interchange a bolt between two identical MN 44s.

A plastic surgeon can only do so much, or nothing, if it blows off part of one's face.

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