Dartmouth Murders on Dateline


September 19, 2003, 10:15 PM
I just saw the story they did on this on Dateline.

All I can say about the whole thing is those kids were just plain evil. What surprised me about the story though was Dateline actually portrayed a gun in a good light. It turns out the two murderers had tried to kill a father and his son six months earlier and were deterred by the fathers Glock!

They have a summary of it all on their site:

Of course, now Dateline is showing something about the D.C. Snipers and I'm sure that won't be too pro-gun.

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September 19, 2003, 11:51 PM
I, too, was surprised that Dateline NBC aired the segment about the killers having been scared off by an armed potential victim.:what:

Of course, they characterized the incident as being "lucky" that the killers left. :rolleyes: Luck had nothing to do with it. The potential victim was visibly armed and alert. The dirtbags weren't stupid enough to bring their knives to a gunfight. :D

September 20, 2003, 12:01 AM
I was also rather surprised to see the program actually acknowledge the fact that the man's glock had deterred the two killers. What is truly shocking about this case is that the two boys had already dug a shallow grave in the nearby woods and had sworn to eachother that they needed to be prepared to kill any witnesses including children.

September 20, 2003, 12:39 AM
Can't believe this was on Dateline. Here's an excerpt and link to the rest of the story


The excerpt is actually from a book that was written about the incident. The authors were telling the story on the show, this is pretty much the way they told it. 6 months later, the two Dartmouth professors (unarmed) were viciously murdered.

At just past ten on a cool summer night, Andrew Patti nestled with his eleven-year-old son on a worn blue sofa in the living room of their Vermont vacation home. Burning logs hissed and popped in the redbrick fireplace as Patti read aloud to Andy Jr. from an adventure story about a hunter pursuing a wise and elusive buck.
Bam-bam-bam-bam-bam. A staccato burst of pounding on the front door interrupted him in mid-sentence.
Startled, Patti rose to his feet, silently motioning to Andy to stay put. It was too late for visitors, and the knocks were too sharp, too insistent to come from the hand of a friend. Someone must be in trouble or looking for trouble.
As Patti stood, he reached under the untucked hem of his work shirt for the nine-millimeter Glock pistol he always wore on his right hip. With a quick flip of his thumb, he unsnapped the safety latch and slid the matte black gun from its leather holster. Patti walked slowly to the door, holding the Glock out of sight, tucked close against the right rear pocket of his faded jeans.
......before coming to his house, the two young men had spent hours digging a grave, five feet long and three feet deep, in the rocky soil next to an abandoned house up a nearby road. If their plan held true, that grave would soon be filled with earth and the lifeless bodies of Andrew and Andy Patti, and maybe their dog, too.

September 20, 2003, 12:48 AM
I would just start shooting.

But that's me...

September 20, 2003, 06:26 AM
Didn`t see the show but from what I`ve read, somebody got real lucky that night. BTW, it`s about time they put a manual safety on those Glocks.:neener:

Tim Burke
September 20, 2003, 09:25 AM
What is truly shocking about this case is that the two boys had already dug a shallow grave in the nearby woods and had sworn to eachother that they needed to be prepared to kill any witnesses including children. Excuse me, I need to go load some more guns.

September 20, 2003, 09:59 AM
It turns out the two murderers had tried to kill a father and his son six months earlier and were deterred by the fathers Glock!
Yet wasn't it interesting that when Stone Phillips closed the segment, he said that something like "A terrible crime was averted because of some circumstances and good luck."

He then went on to describe how some things luckily fell into place for that father and son, and although it was obviously the fact that the father had a gun which proved to be the determing factor in protecting him and his son, when Phillips described the elements of luck working together he never said "And the father was armed." I guess that part of the story really didn't affect the outcome all that much, so might as well leave it out, right? :cuss:

Yup, where crime deterrent and guns are involved, no need to include a lot of confusing facts. geegee

September 20, 2003, 10:30 AM
Yeah, but Stone Phillips made it very clear that the gun was a huge factor and he even said that Jim Parker (one of the killers) had later admitted that the reason they ended up leaving is because of the guys gun.

Henry Bowman
September 20, 2003, 12:09 PM
Yes, but as geegee said, when Stone summed up the story, he attributed their "good luck" to strong locks and lighting Baaaaaa . . . This w/in a minute of quoting the boys as saying that it was the presence of the ARMED man inside that detered them. If Stossel had done the segment, he may have got it right. :banghead:

September 20, 2003, 12:29 PM
Yep, I saw that last night. They even said that the fact that he had a handgun saved him from the cretins. I couldn't believe that NBC of all people would put that on public television.

Good thread.

September 20, 2003, 03:11 PM
I just got back from the local library. With this thread in mind I found a copy of of the Dartmouth Murders on the shelf. Either I picked up the wrong book or this part didn't make it into the paperback edition.

Is there more then one book by that title?

I did learn that the SOG SEAL 2000 is an evil knife designed for one thing and one thing only, and that is to kill. I thought the SEALS used guns for that, but hey I guess you learn something new everyday.

September 20, 2003, 03:29 PM
The title of the one they were using for the Dateline story is Judgment Ridge : The True Story Behind the Dartmouth Murders

They said about the same thing concerning the knife on Dateline too. Something that basically was pushing "designed for killing courtesy of the Navy Seals."

September 20, 2003, 03:35 PM
Duplicate threads merged

September 20, 2003, 03:37 PM
That would explain it then. I will have to look for it next time I am at a library or book store.

Darn evil assault knives. I am all for kitchen knives and knives with a sporting purpose, but nobody needs a black knife.

Baba Louie
September 20, 2003, 05:40 PM
Interesting story.

Lessons learned?

Little poodles are worthless dog-food processing machines... get a Lab or Rottweiler... still dog-food processors of a larger variety, but willing to meet strangers at front door with you and are great at distracting ner-do-wells.

Sometimes opening a door with Lab or Rotty by side and a Glock in hand could be construed to be a worthwhile event if it eventually could save the life of some well-meaning harmless Collegiate Professor's six months down the road... (lot's of speculation in that one, neh?)

I'll take the Low Road here and play devil's advocate for a half a second.

Patti was armed, he knew his phone lines had been cut and that these two (OK this one) were BG's up to evil. He protected his son which IS important, but his "hunkering down" did eventually cost a great price. Granted, he did not know about the second guy, that's true. There could have been more of them sight unseen as well, also true. If I show you my Glock/1911/.357 through the window, tell you to leave my porch and you DO NOT DISAPPEAR, there's some very serious stuff about to occur as you are not a normal respector of even your own life and thus my own as well. Should you put my family at risk, you deserve to meet the monster within me and probably will.

What-to-do, what-to-do?

Open door and play big bad brave burro (speaking of myself here) and deal with/eliminate the one known problem, placing child, poodle and self at risk of second (or possibly others) unknown loser... or hunker down, live another day only to attend a funeral six months later for two fine people that you NOW KNOW (hindsight being what it is), you could have, might have, possibly, through different actions taken that night, kept alive?

An ethical dilemna brought about by two psychopatheic deviants, I hope (any of us) never to have to face. The Gods were smiling at Mr. Patti that day.

Get a bigger dog. Keep Glock and reload ready at all times. Enjoy each day above ground. Always look before opening door.

Researching the Zantops murder's wasn't a pretty or fun 45 minutes.

It WAS eye-opening and thought provoking.

Egyptian Eternal Life questmongers be darned to the eternal netherworlds.


Tim Burke
September 20, 2003, 08:02 PM
I wouldn't fault Mr. Patti's tactics. His responsibility was to his son. He didn't know how many there were, and he didn't know what they had for weapons. Assuming a reasonably poor case (not the worst case), say 2 men with guns expecting him to come out, going out there would be suicide.
His hunkering down did not come with a great price. The price was paid by those that did not believe in evil. Their skepticism came with a great price.

Baba Louie
September 20, 2003, 08:41 PM
Tim Burke,

You are right of course. I was only playing devils advocate.

Tactical suicide is not an option when your family is at stake and you have no backup or communication and only a lousy little poodle as a warning system.

Still sux.

I don't even fault the Zantops as they were professionals dedicating their lives to teaching and the vermin knew just how to play them.

Evil does walk this planet and a lot of it is perpetuated by teenaged male youth.


Tim Burke
September 20, 2003, 10:32 PM
You said you were playing the devil's advocate... I just didn't want the devil to go unanswered.;)
It would have been good if the two goons had managed to get themselves killed by Mr. Patti.

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