Handgun restrictions in Southern California?


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DeCocker
November 28, 2008, 04:39 PM
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for my question.

I may have to relocate to Southern California, specifically LA area (work related) for a couple or three years and need to know what restrictions the state has on handguns, rifles, and shotguns besides hi-cap mags.

Any restrictions on compact, sub-compact single stacked 1911s, mouse guns (e.g. Beretta Jetfire, NAA Mini, etc.) and also revolvers with more tha 6 rounds?

Are there any restrictions on semi-auto pistols such as Glocks, Sigs and CZs that can take hi-cap mags and single stacked magsl?

Also wondering about AR15s, AKs, semi-auto pistols like the Kel-Tec PLR-16s and Benelli M1 shotguns.

Thanks in advance for any "rule-of-thumb" feedback.:confused:

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MountainBear
November 28, 2008, 04:42 PM
Sorry for the move. Here's a link. Read it with a hanky...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

Grassman
November 28, 2008, 04:56 PM
Thank GOD, I live in Texas. What a toilet that California is!!!!!

DeCocker
November 28, 2008, 04:59 PM
Thanks Mountain Bear.

Glock River
November 28, 2008, 05:01 PM
The "work related" excuse is thrown around as if it's impossible to say no to an employer. This is one of those times where you say no. Don't support southern ************ with your tax dollars, don't move there, and don't give the enemy $12 to register your handguns

50 Shooter
November 28, 2008, 05:11 PM
As usual "THE HIGH ROADER"S" as spreading FUD just becasue they don't like CA.:barf::barf::barf:

If you move here you can bring your pistols with you but you do have to leave the hi-cap mags. You can make a killing if you bring pistols with you that aren't on the approved list as you can sell them in a private party transfer. Money making hint for ya...;)

You can also have AK's, AR's... You just have to know how to work around the laws. Go to www.calguns.net and look at the AW flow chart to see how CA gun owners have beat them at their own game!

Glock River
November 28, 2008, 05:15 PM
As usual "THE HIGH ROADER"S" as spreading FUD just becasue they don't like CA.

If you move here you can bring your pistols with you but you do have to leave the hi-cap mags. You can make a killing if you bring pistols with you that aren't on the approved list as you can sell them in a private party transfer. Money making hint for ya...

You can also have AK's, AR's... You just have to know how to work around the laws. Go to www.calguns.net and look at the AW flow chart to see how CA gun owners have beat them at their own game!No, we love California, it is anti gun government tyranny that we hate. You are also being misleading on several points. You totally left out the handgun registration which as I said, is $12 per gun. Bringing in handguns not on the approved list is legal, buuuut there are logistical problems that make it impractical to make money. For starters, a california resident, like the rest of us cannot purchase a handgun from another state. So, a person would have to stock up BEFORE they moved to cal.

Plus you were very VERY misleading about AKs/ARs. You made it sound like an easy "work around" when it is not. Major changes have to be made to the AK/AR to make it pass the calfornia marxists. Magazine wells have to be permanently altered and/or a semi auto has to be turned into a single shot :barf:

50 Shooter
November 28, 2008, 05:27 PM
Really? Name them...

I NEVER said that he didn't have to register them, I said he could bring them. I also said he could bring extra's to sell which is totally LEGAL also.

Here, read the CA AW flow chart and get informed.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Just Jim
November 28, 2008, 05:28 PM
I love California and Californians, to stay right were they are and not infect the rest of us with their gun laws:D:D. Sorry you have to go there and hope something good comes of it.

jj

Glock River
November 28, 2008, 05:41 PM
Relax 50. I did name where you were misleading. Take a chill pill and notice that I only said you were being misleading. I didn't say you were saying anything totally false.

Yea I know you didn't say he didn't have to register them (reasoning with hostile people always requires a sentence full of negatives :rolleyes:), you just left it out.

Look, if it makes you mad that people point out how tyrannical the laws are there, and if you want to believe that the laws are "workable" so you can justify staying, then that is YOUR problem sir. Fine stay. Jump through the hoops if it makes you feel like you're accomplishing something. At what point does the block of cheese just have too much mold on it to try and save it? Sure, you can cut off all 6 sides but you can still smell the mold.

I am informed sir, which seems to infuriate you. I believe you are in denial about how bad is really is there. But hey, the weather is nice (well, warm at least).

50 Shooter
November 28, 2008, 05:45 PM
Right, ask yourself those same questions when Obama takes away your stuff. Where are you going to move to then?

I'm sure you'll find a way to blame CA.:rolleyes:

Jorg Nysgerrig
November 28, 2008, 05:53 PM
Thank GOD, I live in Texas. What a toilet that California is!!!!!

Yeah, no open carry, having to worry about whether 51% of the revenue is from boozes, no carry at schools, no carry at sporting events, no carry at hospitals, nursing homes, churchs, amusement parks, or any other place that simply has a sign posted. California must be unbearable... oh wait, that's Texas... ;)

fireflyfather
November 28, 2008, 06:11 PM
Glock River, have you never heard of a prince50? Bullet Button? As long as it's not a named assault weapon (colt, armalite, etc), you can buy a lower, add a maglock of some sort (3 sorts for ARs, last time I checked, one of which even has a CA DOJ approval letter), and you are good to go, provided you configure it properly. It's not nearly as bad as you think. There is a grey area with maglocks, but it's never lead to a conviction, and most of the CA DAs are coming around to our way of thinking after several high profile arrests went NOWHERE, once the lawyers got in on it. My favorite is the one where the guy had belt-fed M1903 semi-auto guns along with his off-list-lowers, and the only charge they had even a prayer of making stick was some "sap" gloves and a knife that was legal, but they might be able to convince a jury was illegal. Matt Corwin was the guy's name. These days, you can see OLL at pretty much any Southern California range that permits rifles. A good number of cops have them as private owners, WITHOUT department AW paperwork.

To the OP: Go to calguns.net and you will find everything you need to know about legal firearms ownership in Cali. It's also a good place to go if you are interested in fighting the crap laws we have here.

Glock River: Get truly educated before you start accusing others of going off half-cocked and ill-informed.

DeCocker
November 28, 2008, 06:22 PM
As much as I would prefer to stay where I am, with the economy the way it is, it's kinda like throwing the dice if I say "no". After all, I like my job and feel fortunate that I have one.

I also feel very fortunate that I currently live in a state that's not as restrictive as California.

I gather from the responses that I will need to register all of them, including extras (i.e. different models and/or caliber of the same firearm), if I brought them with me which can be cost prohibitive. I'm assuming that I will need to have them modified before they can be privately sold. Another challenge is that movers will not move fireams and ammo, so I will have to move them on my own which is a long way to So. California and will add to my moving expenses which I may not get reimbursed for.

I may just have to hope for the best (i.e. California is temporary and short term) and plan for the worst (i.e. sell them before the move).

Nevertheless, I appreciate all the feedback. :banghead:

DeCocker
November 28, 2008, 06:36 PM
Firefly.. what is OLL?

50 Shooter
November 28, 2008, 06:52 PM
OLL stands for Off List Lower.

CountGlockula
November 28, 2008, 07:12 PM
When there's a "CA" topic, all the non-CA members take every opportunity to take the LOW Road.

Classy.

Get ready for the LOCK, thanks to our fellow non-CA bretherens. Geees.

dstark
November 28, 2008, 07:24 PM
When there's a "CA" topic, all the non-CA members take every opportunity to take the LOW Road.

I agree 100%

FN5.7shooter
November 28, 2008, 07:51 PM
California is restrictive no doubt but you can have AR/AKs and lots of other fun stuff. When you get to LA PM some of the SoCal Calguns.com members I am sure they would enjoy showing you some of the local ranges. Oh, it cost a ton of money to live in LA. That is the reason to not be in CA not the restrictive gun laws. Enjoy California and be safe. :)

kermit315
November 28, 2008, 08:04 PM
you wont have to modify the pistols to sell them, you just cant bring in the Hi Caps. A bullet button for an AR is a 5 minute or less install, and has a minimal effect on range shooting reloading times. you dont have to register the rifles or shotguns, as there is no long gun registration in Cali. You do have to register pistols however, but selling a prized off list handgun when you get here could offset the cost of registration for the rest. It is not as bad as some would lead you to believe here. You will also have to get a handgun safety certificate that is good for five years to have your handguns, unless you are exempt. As others have said, check out Calguns.net for more info and they will steer you in the right direction.

and Glock River, there are some employers that you cant just say "no" to when they tell you to relocate to a gun unfriendly state.

Leanwolf
November 28, 2008, 09:56 PM
50 SHOOTER - "You can make a killing if you bring pistols with you that aren't on the approved list as you can sell them in a private party transfer."

50 Shooter, you should have added that there are no private party long gun or handgun sales/transfers in Calif., without both people going through a FFL dealer, background checks, waiting period, etc.

(I lived for 35 years in Los Angeles, and am still a Life Member of the Calif. Rifle & Pistol Assoc. Get their newsletter every month.)

L.W.

ArmedBear
November 28, 2008, 10:01 PM
Magazine wells have to be permanently altered and/or a semi auto has to be turned into a single shot

This is totally wrong, and you are not informed at all.

Just Jim
November 28, 2008, 10:10 PM
Californians have a history of not fighting the gun controls put on them. They are one of the worst states in the nation for controls and the crime rates prove it. Heck even on Fox's O'Rielly tonight another story of the rampant crimes in San Fran. The people just walk around the crime. If you don't want a bad name then stay home and clean up your state.

jj

DeCocker
November 28, 2008, 10:41 PM
Didn't mean to open a hornet's nest about the issues of gun ownership in California. Just needed to get some idea as to what to do with my collection. I wouldn't be concerned if I only had a couple or so. But bringing a few pistols, specially if they're off the list, may potentially raise some eyebrows when registering.

It'll be interesting to know which off the list pistols are desirable in California, though?

Grassman
November 28, 2008, 10:57 PM
Jorg, if you wanna compare and contrast the gun laws in Cali. vs. Tex., I don't think they are comparable. Not even close.

Librarian
November 29, 2008, 12:46 AM
Didn't mean to open a hornet's nest about the issues of gun ownership in California. Just needed to get some idea as to what to do with my collection. I wouldn't be concerned if I only had a couple or so. But bringing a few pistols, specially if they're off the list, may potentially raise some eyebrows when registering.
You'll generally get better California information at Calguns (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php), but since some of us lead dual lives...

You already have most of the right info. (Glock River, you're about two years out of date - this bill (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/asm/ab_2701-2750/ab_2728_bill_20060929_chaptered.html), combined with the court case Harrot vs County of Kings, created the OLL (Off List Lower) phenomenon.)

You can bring in any handgun that California does not think is an 'assault weapon', which mostly includes threaded barrels and magazines outside the hand grip.

Yes, you must register (.PDF) (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf) each of them as a 'personal handgun importer'; the fee is $19 per handgun.

No, DOJ doesn't care about how many or whether they are on the silly Roster (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=81127) - it's CA FFL's who are restricted from transferring them to non-LEO.

Yes, the magazines are limited to 10 rounds - please don't bring in larger capacity mags (leave them with a friend or relative is the usual best suggestion, I think).

CA also has mode-of transport laws for handguns; generally, that's unloaded, completely enclosed in a locked container. Unloaded open carry is also legal, but many LEO don't know that, and most residents don't know that, so there's a decent likelihood that a citizen will make a 'man with a gun' call.

You have already been pointed to the California 'aw' flowchart; that was developed by Calgunners and is beginning to be used by LEOs. Generally, the better advice seems to be leave all the lowers out of state and buy new ones to add bullet buttons to; why cripple a perfectly good gun (though the BBs are removable without much work)? You can bring uppers and stock sets and things and build up a CA-legal AR-type rifle with the new lower. But just now there has been a run on anything EBR, so that might be more expensive than you might like.

If it is interesting to you, be aware that CCW in the area of Los Angeles can be very difficult to get; other, less urban areas of the state are more reasonable, but the law is "may issue".

Glock River
November 29, 2008, 01:32 AM
Yes, you must register (.PDF) each of them as a 'personal handgun importer'; the fee is $19 per handgun.
Hmm, used to be $12. better advice seems to be leave all the lowers out of state and buy new ones to add bullet buttons to; why cripple a perfectly good gun (though the BBs are removable without much work)?Bullet buttons? Ya know what, I never claimed to know every specific of the california tyranny, so I have no qualms about asking what the hell a bullet button on a lower receiver is (at the risk of some people getting on their high horses and saying "see you non californians don't know anything").

Some of you california residents who get all defensive when we point out california tyranny, just because we don't know every stupid complicated specific need to just relax a bit. We don't need any more reason to hate california laws and attitudes than we already have.

Magazine wells have to be permanently altered and/or a semi auto has to be turned into a single shot
This is totally wrong, and you are not informed at all.Yet you couldn't/wouldn't be specific after that extreme statement. Probably because you know I was basically correct. I've seen the "california model" versions of a whole bunch of semi autos. The Cal version is either a pump, a single shot, or has a severely altered mag well if it's still semi auto. Fine, I didn't explain the entire thousand page picture :rolleyes:, but I wasn't "totally wrong."

Librarian
November 29, 2008, 02:44 AM
better advice seems to be leave all the lowers out of state and buy new ones to add bullet buttons to; why cripple a perfectly good gun (though the BBs are removable without much work)?
Bullet buttons? Ya know what, I never claimed to know every specific of the california tyranny, so I have no qualms about asking what the hell a bullet button on a lower receiver is (at the risk of some people getting on their high horses and saying "see you non californians don't know anything").

Some of you california residents who get all defensive when we point out california tyranny, just because we don't know every stupid complicated specific need to just relax a bit. We don't need any more reason to hate california laws and attitudes than we already have.

On the other hand, those of us who actually do know are better able to explain it than those who acknowledge "we don't know every stupid complicated specific"; getting it wrong isn't helpful.

(BTW, here's a link (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46802) to info on the "bullet button"; interesting engineering hack to humor the DOJ and stay out of jail.)

Originally Posted by Glock River
Magazine wells have to be permanently altered and/or a semi auto has to be turned into a single shot
...
Yet you couldn't/wouldn't be specific after that extreme statement. Probably because you know I was basically correct. I've seen the "california model" versions of a whole bunch of semi autos. The Cal version is either a pump, a single shot, or has a severely altered mag well if it's still semi auto. Fine, I didn't explain the entire thousand page picture , but I wasn't "totally wrong." But I was specific; and at least twice anyone reading this was pointed to a really easy to understand flow chart.

Before 2007, the description "The Cal version is either a pump, a single shot, or has a severely altered mag well if it's still semi auto." was accurate, mostly. That's no longer true.

Weapons in that configuration are still legal, but much less crippled versions are legal now, too. It's still a stupid situation.

But if you don't care to keep up - and if you don't live here, why would you waste the time? - please don't offer misinformation.

fireflyfather
November 29, 2008, 09:00 PM
You will also have to get a handgun safety certificate that is good for five years to have your handguns, unless you are exempt.

Wrong. You only need one if you are BUYING handguns here. Transfers into state and keeping already owned handguns do not require a card.


50 Shooter, you should have added that there are no private party long gun or handgun sales/transfers in Calif., without both people going through a FFL dealer, background checks, waiting period, etc.

Almost right. There are a few exceptions (intra-familial transfer of longarms, for example).

Californians have a history of not fighting the gun controls put on them.

Are you kidding me? Laws being passed doesn't mean that they aren't being fought on election day or in the courts. CA has had a LOT of victories on the gun rights front recently, but most folks outside the state are too busy talking trash to notice (if you like buying AR-15 lowers and building up your rifle yourself, thank CA gun owners for that privilege, since none of the major manufacturers were willing to sell a la carte lowers until they realized it was a way to tap the CA market).

If you don't want a bad name then stay home and clean up your state.

Um, that doesn't even make sense in the context of the original poster's question. He's moving TO California, not leaving it. You imply that his home state (which he hasn't specified) is not "clean". We could do without the trash talking, especially when it doesn't even make sense.

As for bullet buttons, prince 50's, and other maglocks, they are a way of fixing the magazine into the lower so that it can't be removed without a "tool" (the law gives the tip of a bullet as an example of a tool, hence the name "bullet button"). Basically, they replace the magazine release button with a drop-in part that requires an allen wrench, bullet tip, or other tool to allow you to depress the magazine release, depending on which version you buy and install. This fulfills the letter of the law, and re-classifies the weapon as having a fixed magazine, and thus, "evil" features are allowed (pistolgrip, forward pistol grip, etc). The modifications are not permanent, provided you know how to strip and re-assemble a lower (it's not that hard, and there are plenty of youtube videos demonstrating the process), so you can install the original mag release if and when you travel out of state, move, or we get rid of the ban. One type of maglock requires only a turn of an allen wrench to turn on or off the maglock, allowing for quickly alternating back and forth between locked and unlocked, for example if you live on the state line and shoot in AZ or NV.

I've seen the "california model" versions of a whole bunch of semi autos. The Cal version is either a pump, a single shot, or has a severely altered mag well if it's still semi auto. Fine, I didn't explain the entire thousand page picture , but I wasn't "totally wrong."

As Librarian has pointed out, this is totally off base, and has been for about 2 years. You are indeed *almost* totally wrong. We tried to tell you, pointed you to the right places to get the primary sources yourself, but your ego is in the way of giving people USEFUL INFORMATION about the current state of CA law.

For the original poster: You probably don't need to leave your original lowers in your home state, PROVIDED that they are not named assault weapon lowers, and you are willing to install a MM grip, or a maglock. If you aren't familiar with that process, or not willing to, lowers are not that expensive ($150 or so before the election, anyway).

For pistols you only need to do two things: Leave the hicap mags outside the state, and fill out the registration paperwork for the handguns. You may want to buy some non-hicap mags for your handguns. (hicap is defined as 10+ rounds in detachable or centerfire magazines. Tubular rimfire magazines are I believe exempt, but better to check an official source). Your 8 round revolvers are fine.

Just Jim
November 29, 2008, 09:18 PM
Um, that doesn't even make sense in the context of the original poster's question. He's moving TO California, not leaving it. You imply that his home state (which he hasn't specified) is not "clean". We could do without the trash talking, especially when it doesn't even make sense.

:D:D
I am not suprised it doesn't make sense to you:D The thread is about California gun laws and his moving into California. If you read all the responses you might realize I wasn't responding to him. I hope this helps:rolleyes:

jj

fireflyfather
November 30, 2008, 09:36 PM
Then it makes even less sense.

***Stay home*** and cleanup your state

Um, nobody was talking about leaving CA, neither the original poster, nor the responders.

If your comment is simply a snide shot at people who are already working hard to undo the damage that's been done, well, consider yourself part of the problem: "I've got my gun free state, so the rest of you can go to hell!"

Seems like a guy named Zumbo said something like that about having his hunting rifle, so all those black rifle lovers could go to hell. Remember: First they will come for California, then they will come for you.

I hope LOTS of gun owners move to California to help tip the balance. Mass migration for the express purpose of enacting political change. It's happened before in this country's history. I'm not optimistic though, since most gun owners out of state seem to be content with making snide comments and generally being negative instead of finding solutions to problems.

We welcome Decocker and each and every one of his firearms.

Glock River
November 30, 2008, 10:15 PM
(BTW, here's a link to info on the "bullet button"; interesting engineering hack to humor the DOJ and stay out of jail.)I stand impressed. I hope the Cal A.G. strangled his cat when he found out about that device.CA has had a LOT of victories on the gun rights front recently, but most folks outside the state are too busy talking trash to notice (if you like buying AR-15 lowers and building up your rifle yourself, thank CA gun owners for that privilege, since none of the major manufacturers were willing to sell a la carte lowers until they realized it was a way to tap the CA market).I'm willing to accept good news.

JImbothefiveth
November 30, 2008, 10:17 PM
This should probably be in legal.

Just Jim
November 30, 2008, 10:36 PM
I'm not optimistic though, since most gun owners out of state seem to be content with making snide comments and generally being negative instead of finding solutions to problems.

California has been a lost cause ever since the socialist were voted in. We in the other states see nothing but your votes for more socialism and more gun restrictions. If you are recieving snide remarks I am sure California has earned them.

You have all the solutions you need, vote out the liberals and keep your gun rights. If you ain't got enough people who think it's an important right then yall let the wrong people move in and you suported their businesses.

Borders, language and culture are what keeps America strong and California gave up all of it for diversity. Nuff said, I won't waste any more of my time.

jj

BSlacker
December 1, 2008, 09:34 AM
California has been a lost cause ever since the socialist were voted in. We in the other states see nothing but your votes for more socialism and more gun restrictions. If you are recieving snide remarks I am sure California has earned them.

I can't think of any politician labeled as a Socialist Party member serving in California state politics maybe. I would not be suprised. This anti gun laws stuff is pure main stream Dem/Reps voting anti gun laws in. This is why folks outside California need to pay attention and work with other folks in the anti states. I voted against the anti gun politician. So where did I "earn" the anti laws?

If you ain't got enough people who think it's an important right then yall let the wrong people move in and you suported their businesses.

I hope you realize in this big beautiful America you live in and enjoy we do not "let" people "move in". One is free to roam the free country of America. This right people moving in thing sounds a little Socialist to me. You deciding where to let people move in is Pinko Commie thinking for sure.
Opening ones own business is one of the most fundemental rights in free America. Have you tried to start a plumming business in Russia? You will need to be the right person for sure. Do you check out the businesses you deal with to see if they are the right people to "move in" Is there a right people squad that goes around to see if the people moving in are the right people to move in. Just how does one determine if the ones moving in are the "right people". Are you suggesting skin color to be a factor?

Nuff said, I won't waste any more of my time.

One can only hope. :D

hso
December 1, 2008, 09:52 AM
Re: bullet button

Interesting work around for the fixed magazine restriction, but if I read correctly putting a 20 or 30 round magazine in a gun even with this work around looks like you run afoul of the unregistered "assault weapon" problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl2oG2QvybE

SCMtns
December 1, 2008, 01:56 PM
Hi DeCocker-

I moved here (CA) from Texas 5 years ago for grad school. I left the really fun stuff I own with my folks in Dallas, but brought all the handguns and most of the long arms I owned. I registered the handguns ($14 ea) but not the long arms, as they're not required to be registered.

It's not nearly as bad out here as people make it out to be. Irksome, yes, but I still own most of the guns I want and have 18 national forests and millions of acres of BLM land to go shooting on. I live in a cabin on a mountainside covered in redwood forest, which I damn sure never got to do in Texas. Nearest NF is about 2.5 hrs away in the Sierras. I've met a lot of shooters out here, and all the pointless laws have done nothing to dampen anybody's enthusiasm.

If you're into wilderness areas, only Alaska has more acres of wilderness than CA. My girlfriend and I go out frequently into federal wilderness, where the few (if any) people you'll run into will have nothing to say about the revolver on your hip, as CA's gun laws are irrelevant out there on federal land. We just spent the holiday weekend on the Lost Coast in Humboldt County, backpacking around, camping on the beach with bear prints in the sand, and saw I think 4 people the whole weekend. I open carried my Ruger SRH Alaskan the whole time. Legally, btw.

That said, I'm definitely tired of the general populace out here assuming that only criminals own guns. Californians generally know nothing about guns, and elect people to public office who know nothing-- hence the ridiculous gun laws that amount to nothing more than hoops you have to jump through. Come out, spend a couple years enjoying an amazingly beautiful state, leave the AR's and AK's with some friends or family, vote Republican while you're here, take as many people to the range as you can and teach them what guns are about, and then get back out of here to a free state. That's been my plan all along, and I don't think I'm going to look back in regret years from now in Montana or Idaho or whatever free state I'm off to next.

But make sure you do register those handguns-- getting pulled over with one registered in your name is no big deal, but if they find one not registered to you or not registered at all they often assume it's stolen and take it away from you.

Best of luck, amigo.

SCMtns
December 1, 2008, 02:04 PM
Hi DeCocker-

I moved here (CA) from Texas 5 years ago for grad school. I left the really fun stuff I own with my folks in Dallas, but brought all the handguns and most of the long arms I owned. I registered the handguns ($14 ea) but not the long arms, as they're not required to be registered.

It's not nearly as bad out here as people make it out to be. Irksome, yes, but I still own most of the guns I want and have 18 national forests and millions of acres of BLM land to go shooting on. I live in a cabin on a mountainside covered in redwood forest, which I damn sure never got to do in Texas. Nearest NF is about 2.5 hrs away in the Sierras. I've met a lot of shooters out here, and all the pointless laws have done nothing to dampen anybody's enthusiasm.

If you're into wilderness areas, only Alaska has more acres of wilderness than CA. My girlfriend and I go out frequently into federal wilderness, where the few (if any) people you'll run into will have nothing to say about the revolver on your hip, as CA's gun laws are irrelevant out there on federal land. We just spent the holiday weekend on the Lost Coast in Humboldt County, backpacking around, camping on the beach with bear prints in the sand, and saw I think 4 people the whole weekend. I open carried my Ruger SRH Alaskan the whole time. Legally, btw.

That said, I'm definitely tired of the general populace out here assuming that only criminals own guns. Californians generally know nothing about guns, and elect people to public office who know nothing-- hence the ridiculous gun laws that amount to nothing more than hoops you have to jump through. Come out, spend a couple years enjoying an amazingly beautiful state, leave the AR's and AK's with some friends or family, vote Republican while you're here, take as many people to the range as you can and teach them what guns are about, and then get back out of here to a free state. That's been my plan all along, and I don't think I'm going to look back in regret years from now in Montana or Idaho or whatever free state I'm off to next.

But make sure you do register those handguns-- getting pulled over with one registered in your name is no big deal, but if they find one not registered to you or not registered at all they often assume it's stolen and take it away from you.

Best of luck, amigo.

Dan M.
December 1, 2008, 02:12 PM
Good to see a few positive CA posts for once. Thanks guys!

Librarian
December 1, 2008, 02:56 PM
Re: bullet button

Interesting work around for the fixed magazine restriction, but if I read correctly putting a 20 or 30 round magazine in a gun even with this work around looks like you run afoul of the unregistered "assault weapon" problem.
Right. 10 rounds max for 'non-removable magazine' models.

The other avenue is a 'featureless build', basically one without a pistol grip. See Ten Percent Firearms (http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=ar15) for examples. (Yes, they do look rather odd. I'm told they shoot fine, though, and that's more the point under the Current Regime.)

I stand impressed. I hope the Cal A.G. strangled his cat when he found out about that device. There is a well-known official in DOJ whose opposition to 'assault weapons' is legendary. Rumors of her 'disappointment' on this and Heller do circulate.

TimRB
December 1, 2008, 03:27 PM
"I'm willing to accept good news."

Here's some:

http://www.crpa.org/showpages.asp?pid=1006

While you're at the CRPA site, please don't forget to join!

Tim

fireflyfather
December 1, 2008, 05:29 PM
Yes, tenpercentfirearms is one of several businesses that have popped up in the cottage industry of CA-legal AR and AK builds. Even some HK and FAL options are coming onto the market. I think a few people have even found a way to make a PS-90 legally configured.

But, like a few have said, stick to the 10 round magazines. Not just for handguns or AR's. ANY detachable magazine greater than 10 rounds is bad news.

Librarian
December 1, 2008, 06:19 PM
ANY detachable magazine greater than 10 rounds is bad news. That's a good first approximation of the law - it also applies to fixed magazines, except .22 tubular mags or tubular mags on lever-action rifles.

But there are further layers....

Second approximation: as first, above, except "Unless you possessed them in California, even for a minute, before the cutoff date of January 1, 2000".

Third approximation: as second, above, except "possession and use of large-capacity magazines are not crimes in the California Penal Code (12020(a)(2) (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12020-12040.html))." The law actually says it is a crime if one (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

The implications of third approximation, combined with the information that magazines generally are not serialized, not regulated or registered, and there is no reason to retain records of purchase, suggests the restriction is unenforceable against individuals not selling the things. That does not, however, mean that some law enforcement agencies don't try.

Lots of threads on this at Calguns. Parts are a bit unsettled.

coop923
December 2, 2008, 09:46 AM
One of the easiest things for non-Californians to do is to make sweeping generalizations about California. There are a couple of major urban areas that are catered to by the media an it is from this that many from the other 49 states gather their information and build their "knowledge" of California. The red counties in California cover more area and contain more people than many red states.

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