[pfcreamer]

I don't know anything about revolvers, but just inherited this .38 caliber S&W Special CTG stamped on the barrel. My deceased Father-In-Law was in the Navy and left me this revolver. It has a V which I know stands for Victory and then serial number. Anyone have any interesting commments/knowledge about this .38 S&W? What would this be worth?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/3066357093_597f3f9259_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/3067199238_f680c43098_b.jpg

[krs]

Depends on condition and less so on markings.

It's called the Victory Model, and it's essentially a Smith & Wesson Model 10 Military&Police revolver made in very large numbers in the .38 Spec. and .38 S&W (obsolete) chambering, as well as lendlease versions sent to Britian chambered in .38-200, I think it was called.

They are not rare and were traded for as little as $100. to $200. as recently as five years ago. Now there has been a doubling of those prices, generally, although some have sold for as much as $800. or a little more if very much as issued with original parkerized finish, original grips and parts, lanyard loop, and ideally the service holster that was issued with it.

Because they are as much as the generic S&W revolver parts will interchange with most K frame revolvers of the same manufacturer, and most parts are still available as new.

Good revolver, shoots the .38 special cartridge, perhaps not a good idea to overstress the parts with +P loads although I'm sure it's been done.

Many of them were used as fodder for budding gunsmiths, as a basis for a competition pistol decades ago, and there are probably thousands both in people's nightstands and at the bottom of the seas around the world.

[Old Fuff]

The Victory Model was Smith & Wesson's regular .38 Special Military & Police model, with plain walnut stocks and (usually) a Parkerized finish. A bit rough on the outside, but fine inside where it counted. Some are marked "U.S. Property" on the topstrap, where others say, "United States Property." In addition some were purchased directly by the Navy, and are stamped "U.S. Navy" on the topstrap, where others were stamped on the left side of the frame, "Property of U.S. Navy" with the letters sometimes filled with red paint. All were made between 1942 and 1945. They were the primary sidearm used by Navy's aviators flying off carriers in the Pacific, and remained in service as late as the Viet Nam war. Values run from about $250 to $600.00 depending on condition and markings.

Caliber: 6-shots, .38 Special
Barrel length: 4 inches
Notable features: Plain walnut stocks, lanyard loop in butt, Parkerized finish.

[Old Fuff]

Because they are as much as the generic S&W revolver parts will interchange with most K frame revolvers of the same manufacturer, and most parts are still available as new.

Not necessarily so, if you are refering to post-war revolvers. Hammers do not interchange, and neither does the rebound slide unless the revolver has a "VS" serial number. The hammer block system is different, and so are the screw threads. Cylinder stops, and cylinder stop springs are different, and so are hands.

That doesn't leave much... :uhoh:

[jaydubya]

Old Fuff said, "They were the primary sidearm used by Navy's aviators flying off carriers in the Pacific, and remained in service as late as the Viet Nam war."

I was one of them, at least on my first flying cruise to Vietnam. Before each flight, I would fish out a bandolier holster from a jumble of them in a ready room locker. It would contain a Victory Model S&W .38sp which I would load with five of the mouldy tracers in loops along the chest strap. After the flight, I'd put the rounds back into their loops and dump the rig back into that locker. So far as I could tell, no one did anything to them for the entire cruise. Shooting from the flight deck at garbage being dumped from the fantail, I was surprised with that revolver's accuracy single action (I had several years of bullseye shooting behind me). But in combat, I considered the revolver useful for just one thing: firing tracers straight up while swallowing seawater by the gallon. On my next two flying cruises, my personal weapon was a 9mm Browning High Power with two spare magazines. Fortunately, I never had occasion to use it for self defense.

To answer an unasked question, I also carried a packet of tiny flares that screwed into a launcher to handle attracting attention while swallowing seawater by the gallon. Bought the packet at a sporting goods store. I fired off several and was very impressed. I'm sure they are illegal now.

To answer another unasked question, I stored that Browning in my desk safe, right next to a fifth or two of Old Crow. Try doing either in this Navy. They've taken all the fun out it.

Cordially, Jack

[TomcatPC]

I really hope to have a U.S. version of the S&W "Victory" Model someday. My Dad went through three of them during the War, he was a gunner in a TBM Avenger.

I will be getting a .380"/200 British version of the S&W "Victory" model after Christmas.
Thanks
Mark

[Old Fuff]

But in combat, I considered the revolver useful for just one thing: firing tracers straight up while swallowing seawater by the gallon.

Which is the prime reason the Navy adopted the revolver in the first place, and stayed with it so long. Combat was not really a consideration. :evil:

[Old Fuff]

TomcatPC:

The majority of .38 Victory Model revolvers were not Navy marked, and were simply stamped, "U.S. Government Property. Those that were Navy marked were delivered against specific Navy purchase contracts, that were seldom issued. I wish you luck in finding a Navy-marked gun, but beware of fakes.

[TomcatPC]

I just would like to have a U.S. version (.38 Special Cal. with 4" barrel) someday, I don't care if it is U.S. Navy marked or not. If it is, great, if not, no big deal. I'd be happy with a "parts" revolver, not looking for the rarest, matching numbers, most pristine revolver. It will be quite a while till I can afford one anyway, so I'm not holding my breath.

Thank you
Mark

[Old Fuff]

Tomcat:

I may have goofed by not making it clear that the majority of Victory Model revolvers that were used by the Navy were not "Navy marked." They had standard "U.S. Government" markings. Shortly after the war started it became clear that stamping revolvers for a particular service slowed production. Because of this these stampings were dispensed with.

Of all the services, the Navy used the largest number of .38 Special Victory Models that were produced. There is a strong probability that any revolver with standard markings was a Navy gun, unless something indicates otherwise.

[TomcatPC]

What I meant to say is that I would like to have a Victory model revolver with a 4" barrel and made to fire the .38 Special Cartridge, the version that was used by the Armed Forces(any Branch) of the United States of America (also I have heard Factory Guards, and any other Military and/or Law Enforcment Agencies, Spies, etc that I am unaware of) during the time period that the United States was involved in the Second World War (and/or used during the Post-WWII Era up until fairly recent times in some cases I have heard about).

The only markings I am concerned with would be a "V" in the serial number of the revolver and the normal markings that were given by Smith & Wesson at the factory when the revolver was made. I could care less which Branch used, marked, etc. the revovler, as long as it is the type (.38 Special cal. with 4" barrel) used by the United States.

I am already in the process of buying a version that was made for the British Empire forces (.38 S&W Cartridge (aka .380"/200) with a 5" barrel), hence me stating the "U.S. Version", meaning the type used by the United States, not specificaly marked "U.S.".
Thank You
Mark

[Old Fuff]

Interestingly, the .38-200 (British) version of the Victory Model was used to a limited degree by U.S. Military forces, and the single largest service to procure these revolvers after the U.K. and Commonwealth countries was the U.S. Army's Office of Strategic Services (OSS) that apparently used them in the performance of certain clandestine missions. They also ordered special .38 S&W ammunition from Remington and Winchester. There is a lot of interesting history behind the .38-200 revolver that you may, or may not, be aware of.

[corpsmanup!]

What about one stat has it stamped U.S.N.C.P.????

[Old Fuff]

I think you may mean U.S.N.C.P.C. - that stands for "U.S. Navy Civilian Police Corps."

The Navy ordered 3000 commercial S&W .38 Military & Police revolvers, 4" barrels, blue finish, checkered walnut stocks and a lanyard loop in early 1941. The were intended to arm gate guard and security personal at Navy instalations and factories doing contract work for them. Later Victory model revolvers followed the same patern, except for plain walnut stocks and matt blue or Parkerized finish.

It is interesting to note that they tried to place this order earlier, but S&W turned them down and made them wait until they could catch up with British orders for the .38-200 version. Clearly the company had very independent management. :D

[markc]

I have 2 a S&W 38 spical ctg, 2 colt 45 1911a1 and 2 m1 grand's and i want to get ride of a few. how do i go on doin that

[krs]

Where are you, Markc?


(Cheshire cat smilie needed)

[Claude Clay]

yes markc--:uhoh::scrutiny::cool:--where are you??

[ArchAngelCD]

I too would like to know that!! ;):D

[Kleanbore]

Here's a famous one:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/multimedia/8585717.html

The guards at an aircraft plant that produced Navy planes during WWII and (under different management) afterwards carried these into the mid 1960s. They were retired because many of the cranes had become bent due to improper handling.

[me26245]

I guess I'm lucky I have three navy marked and one us property :-)

[SaxonPig]

I have one that I lettered and it shipped in 1942 as a navy contract gun. It has no government markings at all. If it weren't for the letter saying it was shipped to the Navy you wouldn't know it was a military pistol.

[Old Fuff]

Interesting....

Is this a pre-V prefix or V prefix serial numbered revolver? Also does it have the U.S. Property stamp on the top-strap?

[SaxonPig]

V77420 with absolutely no government or military markings. I assumed it was sold to a police or security agency during the war but I lettered it and it was shipped to Springfield Armory in August of 1942 as a Navy contract revolver.

Could it have been stolen from inventory before being stamped by the military?

[Daddyfish]

I inherited a "U.S. Navy" .38 spl from my dad, identical to the picture at the top of this dialogue. He flew fighters off flattops in the Pacific. Mine has parkerized finish, original lanyard loop and, somewhere, I have the 'waterproof' bag/holster.
Serial #V204xxx. Plain walnut, original finish. May even have some old tracers (look like regular bullets except for the 'lipstick).
I am very interested in the new Ruger LCP with CT laser, and trying to get an idea if what I have is worth what I want. I have seen everything from $299 to $600 on GB and GA sites. Like to know what I have before next gunshow.

[Brian Williams]

You have a family Heirloom. It is priceless.
Actual worth about $200 to $700 in the right condition.

[Big Daddy Grim]

I would in my mind go with priceless for the family gun. but $200-600 sounds right.

[Daddyfish]

OK. I have daughters..who have sons.
What about a S&W 34-1 22/32 kit gun (new in 1983)? Was my back up pocket gun, resisted temptation to cut the hammer down.
Also, any thoughts on Ruger LCP appreciated?

[victory model]

Picked up one at a show yesterday....been looking for some time.

[Walkalong]

and .38 S&W (obsolete) Not obsolete. Less available and usually more expensive than .38 Spl, but a complete non issue if you reload. I would not want a Victory Model that has been "rechambered" to Spl. I do enjoy shooting .38 S&W in mine (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=87818&d=1226879670). Picked mine up at a gun show as well.

[victory model]

Bought one at a show last week identical to yours......gave $299 plus tax, two show fees, and $9 in ATM fees....feel I got a bargain.

[Lone Star]

There has been too much speculartion that non Navy -marked guns didn't see service.

I was in the USAF in the 1960's, and the Navy transferred many of these Victory Models to us because we were short of the Combat Masterpiece, which was our official issued .38. A limited number of .45 autos were also still in use at some bases.

At least half of these ex-Navy guns weren't marked as being Naval property. Just because one isn't marked doesn't mean that it was carried by some factory guard!

Lone Star

P.S. Walkalong-

Thanks for the GREAT photo of your .38/200! That is the best single image of that gun that I've ever seen on the Net!

[wcwhitey]

When pulling gate guard or quarterdeck duty back in the mid 80's it wasn't uncommon to draw a Victory Model. I always tried to get the .45 but there were a good amount of pencil barreled model 10's, Ruger Security Sixes and still functional Victory Models to be had. Wish I would have paid more attention to markings. Bill