[jedi]

Which of the Bolt action WWI/WWII guns has the harshest recoil? Springfield .30-06? 8mm Mausers? Enfield .303, Mosin-Nagant 7.62X54R? What do you think? Getting an 1891/30 soon...some say it kicks like a mule..trying to figure out where it fits in.

[Hkmp5sd]

My vote would go to the .303 Enfield Jungle Carbine.

[jem375]

That's easy...... Mosin-Nagant .7.62x54R....my M44 really kicks..

[MiniZ]

I'm sure someone has some figures to make a response based on cold hard numbers(velocity, energy, etc..). Subjectively, in my limited experience it is a toss up between the 8MM Mauser and the 7.62X54 Mosin.

[Okiecruffler]

Which Mosin, Which Enfield, etc. My 91/30's are pussycats compared to my K98, which is a pussy cat compared to my M44 (tho truthfully the M44 only saw limited action in WWII). My Ishy is real easy on the shoulder, but I've seen guys take a step back when shooting the jungle carbine.

[jedi]

I would be thinking of the 1891/30. For the most part I am thinking of the full size rifles. My impression from others is that the mosin carbines kick quite a bit more then the 91/30

[jedi]

So what would be the lightest recoiling 7.62x54R round? The lighter 147 type rounds or the heavier 200+ grain rounds. Or somewhere in between?

[BamBam-31]

My M39 and No. 4 Mk. I both kick moderately. Same with my Garand. If I don't use a sissy pad, I'll bruise slightly by the end of the day, but no biggie.

My Yugo M48 (before I...koff...koff...sporterized it :uhoh: ) would KICK MY BUTT!! That buttplate was made for crackin' skulls, boy. Mebbe it wuz the Turk ammo (which I hear is kinda hot). Dunno. I sure don't miss shooting it with the old stock, tho.

[Snowdog]

Funny, I never had a problem with the recoil of the 8mm M48. I fired 40 rounds of 196gr S&B and close to 100 rounds of FN WWII surplus a few weeks ago and never encounted any "pain" during the session. However, I also have a strangely high pain threshold.
My Enfield is also a downright pleasant shooter, though the water-damaged stock was replaced with a monte carlo sporter, so that may have affected the perceived recoil.

I can determine the severity of recoil, and I find the M44 with Wolf 200gr SP ammuntion packs a nasty thump. I think I'd develop an uncomfortably sore shoulder after a couple boxes of that.

The award to the most pleasant shooting WWI / WWII rifle (besides the M1 cabine) would be the M96 Swedish Mauser, IMO. That 6.5x55 is a close to a magic bullet as you can get.


Jedi, after a session with my M44, I noticed the 200gr(SP) kicked considerably more than the lighter fodder, including Czech silver tipped ammunition.
However, recoil perception is subjective, so a general consensus may never develop.

[Bainx]

I have the Mosin, Mauser and Enfield. I also have a Jap 7.7 that seems to recoil worse than all of them. I don't believe it is the power of the cartridge so much as the small butt of the rifle that gives the perception of harder recoil.

[Tamara]

M44's and Jungle Carbines will boot you pretty good.

[Okiecruffler]

That Turk ammo in a mauser does up it's authority a might.

[Dave Markowitz]

In my experience, it's the No.5 Mk.I Jungle Carbine. The idiot who designed the recoil-enhancer pad on the butt should be forced to fire 100 rounds through it while wearing only a shirt.

An M-1938 Mosin with heavy ball would be no fun.

I have not fired the Steyr Straight-Pull carbines in 8x56R, which are loaded with a 206 grain bullet. I hear those will knock you for a loop.

Old battle rifles that I find relatively pleasant to shoot are the M1 Garand, No.4 Lee-Enfield, m/39 Finn Mosin. The Mauser short rifles (e.g., 98k or VZ-24) aren't too bad with Type-S ball (154 grain), but Type-sS ball (196 grain) isn't much fun.

Recoil is very subjective so YMMV.

[C.R.Sam]

A lot of relativity involved.
Weight to energy.
Shape and dimensions of the butt.
Comb height.
Drop.
How well a particular gun fits a particular shooter.
etc etc.

Agree with Frodo....Jungle carbine seems to have a recoil enhancer at the back.

Sam

[MAKOwner]

My Jungle Carbine kicks like a friggin mule, I would imagine the little Mosin carbines are the same, I'm thinking toss-up between the two...

[Marko Kloos]

I have an Austrian straight-pull Steyr-Mannlicher in 8x56R Hungarian that will knock your fillings loose. It's a slim carbine that doesn't weigh much more than six pounds, and it fires an 8mm Mauser-class cartridge.

Technically, it's a WWI rifle, but it was issued to German and Austrian REMFs in WWII.

[Badger Arms]

Okay, the answer is: NONE... All of these guns were pussycats. The M44 barks worse than it bites. Put your shoulder behind my 350 Remington Magnum and feel the BURN. I frankly don't find any of the above mentioned guns uncomfortable.

[Gordon]

I'm with Marko, I think I've shot them all. Next would come M-44 with heavy ball, the SMLE MK

[Hkmp5sd]

Hey Badger, the question was which WWII bolt gun had the hardest recoil, not which one you couldn't handle. :)

[Andrew Wyatt]

never fired the jungle carbine or the m44, but i find the M98s to be unpleasent, because their wide, flat buttplate only bears on the pocket of my shoulder in two places.


my enfield contacts the whole surface of the pocket because of its narrower, rounded buttplate.

[BigG]

Boys Antitank Rifle?

[Badger Arms]

Oh... well, I guess I dont' have an answer. They all seem about the same. I don't like the stock design of the 1903 and I think the contoured buttplate on the enfield leaves a little to be desired and I always get bruised. I find that I get fatigued quicker on the M44.

[telewinz]

Okiecruffler has it right

"That Turk ammo in a mauser does up it's authority a might."

IMHO It has the felt recoil of a stiff 45/70 handload, its not your everyday "plinking" ammo.

[MolonLabe416]

Subjective, of course, but I'd say the G33/40.

[Johnny Guest]

I too believe it is almost entirely subjective - - Body build, height, arm length, shooting technique, etc.

So stipulated, I believe the "Recoil Pad" of the No. 5 Jungle Carbine was designed by a non-shooter - - When the foam rubber was new it may have done a decent job - - Who knows? But fifty years or so of "seasoning" and weathering, often with the carbine stored in a rack with weight resting on the pad, and the rubber is compressed an deteriorated into uselessness. The metal reinforcing around the outside now bangs the shooter's shoulder unmercifully - - far worse than if the arm had only a decently shaped, solid metal buttplate on the rear.

I haven't shot ALL the WW-II rifles, but of those I have, the No.5 may well be the worst.

Best,
Johnny

[cool45auto]

My 91/30 just plain hurts sometimes.

[DMK]

The Enfield No.5 Jungle Carbine kicks, but it does have a rubber butt pad. OTOH, the Mosin Nagant carbines have a nice and firm steel plate. (which was probably designed for cracking fascist pig's skulls)

The M1938 carbine is a little lighter than the M44 because it doesn't have the added weight of a bayonette.

My shoulder votes for the M1938 Mosin-Nagant carbine. For additional fun use 180gr. heavy ball ammo. :uhoh:

[firestar]

I have a Yugo 8mm Mauser that seems to be more snappy than my M-44. I shoot Turk ammo in the 8mm so that may be part of the problem. To me the M-44 almost feels like a 12ga shotgun rather than a rifle. The M-44s recoil is more of a shove while the 8mm is a snappy recoil.

I find the .357 loaded with hot loads to be more unconfortable to shoot than a .44mag. The .357 has a snappy recoil also and I think that feels worse than bigger but slower recoiling .44mag. Its all about speed of felt recoil. A 12ga produces more foot pounds of recoil energy but my dad's Ruger .44mag carbine feels almost as bad because it is so darn snappy.

[4v50 Gary]

I'd say those Moisin-Nagant carbines. Ouch! At least the little beast known as the Enfield Jungle Carbine had a rubber buttpad.

[Destructo6]

I'm going to have to vote for the Nagant carbines, also (M38/M44). The sharp-edged, flat buttplate offers no relief.

[Khornet]

I believe the author describes one of the old Italian Carcano carbines as having the worst flash and kick of any service rifle he handled....and he handled 'em all.

[Abominable No-Man]

I'd have to say it's the Mosin-Nagants. I don't think they were designed as anything more than to just have something to put into the hands of the troops. I don't find the Mauser to be too bad, about the same as the .30-
06 IMO, although that metal butt plate on either the Springfield or the Mauser will hurt if you don't shoulder it right. My dad was a cop for many years, and I can remember back in my freshman and sophomore years before his dapartment standardized on a specific set of weapons. Since our county was pretty rural and wounded and rabid animals weren't uncommon, he picked up a No. 4 Lee-Enfield somewhere that he carried in the patrol car on the back roads (this was allowed at the time). So I was able to shoot the .303 quite a bit when I was younger, and even then I didn't think it was that bad.

ANM

[goon]

The M-39 with 200 grain bullets will give you a good rap if you shoot it from the bench, but is OK if you shoot offhand.
The lighter bullets are like big .22s in both the 91/30 and the Finn.
The .303 isn't that bad in a full sized rifle.

The part about recoil being subjective may just be about as right as you are going to get.
I am about 5'10" and kind of chunky with long arms. I do most of my shooting offhand, so the recoil is a little more spread out than it would be if I were shooting from the bench.
From the bench, anything with any significant power will hammer the snot out of you.

[MuzzleBlast]

The 91/30 kicks about the same as a Garand: not too bad, but during an extended range session, it can wear you down after a while.

[Daniel T]

I just picked up a M44. Now I'm really, really looking foward to shooting it. I guess I have a touch of masochism going. :)

[Bainx]

I would imagine the little Mosin carbines are the same, I'm thinking toss-up between the two...

MAKowner, believe me, you need one of these!:D

[Mike Irwin]

The Mosin-Nagants have always seemed to punch me the hardest...

[9 m&m]

I have a M44 carbine and even with the heaviest 200 gr. SP's it still doesnt seem to kick much. Seems to kick bout like a ...........ahhh............ little less than a 20 gauge shotgun. BTW what about that Czech???? made silver tipped ammo? Ive got a BUNCH of the stuff. Ive been to a web site all about mosins and they had a whole place on the ammo they said it was armor peircing stuff.????

[Wildalaska]

I have never found the Jungles to be that bad, to me the M44s and M38s are nasty....

Then again. like Badger Arms I compare everything to my hunting rifles: 7 1/2 lb 338 mag carbine with a 20 inch barrel and 250 grainers...or a 6 1/2 pound 457 magnum levergun firing 405 grain slugs at about 200 fps...

And tomorrowI will try the new 300 H&H with a steel buttplate! And 220 silvertips!

WildidiotAlaska

[Gewehr98]

An 8x56 Austrian straight-pull, particularly the carbine version, hurts. So does that Noisy Magnet carbine with full-patch 7.62x54R loads - it's as if they designed that buttstock to amplify the pain of recoil and concentrate it.

Then there are those Carcanos rechambered in 8mm Mauser that came out near the end of the war. They could conceivably hurt the shooter more than the shootee, and not just from recoil! :eek:

[Snowdog]

or a 6 1/2 pound 457 magnum levergun firing 405 grain slugs at about 200 fps

Remember to include a 12' hold-over at 100 yards.... :D
I know you meant 2000 fps, but caffeine wouldn't let me go without saying something.

[Kalos]

BTW what about that Czech???? made silver tipped ammo? Ive got a BUNCH of the stuff. Ive been to a web site all about mosins and they had a whole place on the ammo they said it was armor peircing stuff.????

Can't really comment on the rest of this thread, as I've only got Mosins. (Well, the K31 was around in WWII... and it did a fine job of tenderizing my shoulder when I was wearing just a t-shirt :P) But to the best of my knowledge the silver tip is just light ball... not match grade (as I saw it advertised), not armor piercing.

[MLC]

Boys Antitank Rifle?


That was to be my response.

[Zeke Menuar]

I have shot a M1 Garand, M38 and M44 Mosin-Nagants. The M38 Mosin wins hands down. It is managable recoil, but I have to be mindful of how the gun is mounted on my shoulder or I get a nifty bruise. Shooting 200gr ammo doesn't help much either.

ZM

[webley455]

Another vote for the 303 Jungle Carbine

[cracked butt]

I've shot the steyr-manlicher carbine, and it kicks harder than the 98 which I would give second place to. The straight stocked o3 springfields aren't all that pleasant either.

[Wildalaska]

I just ran 40 rounds thru the jungly carbine and its a pussycat..

WildtoobadIcantseethetargetAlaska

[Roadkill]

I had a Mod 38 Carcano in 8mm. Nuff said.

rk

[snafuie1]

m38 bar none

[Feanaro]

Meh, none of the full sized rifles kick me hard, although I only own one of rifles so I have no long-term experiance. The 91/30 seems to kick a little stiffer than the others with certain loads.

The shorter ones? M38 kicks the hardest IMO. Still, not horrible.

[SaintDavid]

I go with Bainx My Arisaka type99 jap in 7.7mm withrelatively short barrel and definate short pull length bruises every time.

[Cosmoline]

If you hold them properly, full-sized Mosins, Mausers and most other vintage steel-butt war rifles do not kick that hard. The problem is most American shooters lean way too far forward because we are used to shooting with scopes. This places the steel butt right on the bone. Even the M-38 and M-44 Mosins don't kick that hard if held correctly.

IMHO the most hard-recoiling of WWII vintage bolt actions would be the M-95 Austro-Hungarian straight pull carbine. It kicks, man it kicks. It's also about the lightest carbine from the era using a full-size battle cartridge. The Mannlicher-Carcanos chambered in 8x57JS would probably give the cut down M-95 a run for its money, but I'm not about to shoot one!

[Cosmoline]

I'd have to say it's the Mosin-Nagants. I don't think they were designed as anything more than to just have something to put into the hands of the troops.

That must be why so many of history's greatest snipers used Mosins :D

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Having shot a 91/30, an Enfield #4, and a Steyr-Mannlicher M-95 carbine side-by-side, the hands-down winner was the M-95. Those flyweight little carbines boosting a 200+ grain bullet to 2500+ fps definitely rattles your teeth.

It is to be noted that the other two guns were full-sized/weight, but I still think the M-95 hits the hardest. It's really light. Both Mosins and Enfields are rather beefy guns, and are still heavier than the M-95 in carbine format. IIRC, all three shoot a similar-weight bullet, i.e. 174 grains in .303, and 192 grains for 8mm Mauser, at least later in the war when the Germans had standardized on the heavier-bullet MG load instead of the faster 148-grain rifle load.

[spacemanspiff]

i've only had experience with a mauser, and i have lots of turkish ammo so thats my plinking stuff. it does leave a mark.
not unbearable but then i also have plenty of fat to help cushion the blast.
newly manufactured ammo however is very light.

[Leadbutt]

There is one worse thean the boy's, it was the German single shot mauser anti-tank rifle