45acp load data question.....


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shouldifail
November 28, 2008, 10:40 PM
ok, loading up some 230gr lead round nose bullets and was going through the lee data.
using UNIQUE---

it shows for 230gr lead bullets
start grains@ 5.0
or lee auto disk of .53
and 790 fps

on the alliant website for the same lead bullet weight
unique
5.8 grains
and 849 fps

the thing that gets me: is that for the "do not exceed data" in the lee book ,it is exactly the same as the starting load.
not a whole lot of room for error according to the book.

just wanted some other input...
looking for a plinking load to use in a 1911 pistol and thompson

again, using 230 gr. LRN bullets from dardas
unique powder.
lee 3 turret press, lee dies
auto disk powder measure.

any recommendations would be great.
thanks.

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Jim Watson
November 28, 2008, 11:03 PM
the thing that gets me is that for the "do not exceed data" in the lee book it is exactly the same as the starting load.

Lee is like that. Their starting load is whatever the disk hole delivers next lighter OR THE SAME AS the maximum. A review of real loading manuals will show different values.

Any road, most sources show that 5.0 grains of Unique and a cast 230 is a powder puff load for .45 ACP; and 5.8 is not a maximum load according to Lyman or the NRA (back when they did technical work.)

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
November 29, 2008, 03:09 AM
I don't use Lee disk 'holes or dip measures'. I've looked at the Lee data years ago and could never figure out why they didn't publish manuals like the others did.

Most of the rest of us set our pouder measure to throw a charge by the 'weight' in grains. We verify this with our scale. If we want 5.25gns, we can adjust to get that every time.

I'll agree with Jim that 5.0 or 5.8gns of Unique is certainly not maximum.

I have no less than five different vendor reloading manuals. When trying something new... I reference all of them to make the best choice for my intentions. I think you'll find that most reloaders do 'near the same'.

-Steve

Galil5.56
November 29, 2008, 07:03 AM
Shouldifail,

A good scale needs to be part of your gear, and this way you can really see what the measure is dropping and adjust accordingly. In my experience the discs will throw light under normal usage, and if so a sub 5 grain charge of Unique is extremely light. Even out of a 5" 1911, the Lee velocity claim from 5 grains is very optimistic, and I would venture to say if you did actually chronograph the .53 disc, 625-650 fps would be your results.

I like Unique a lot for a bunch of calibers and applications, but light 45 auto reloading is not not one of them, and am better served with Bullseye, Clays, 700x, Solo 1000, etc... When you get a scale and are able to work up higher intensity 45 auto rounds with Unique, I think you will be better served. Not to harp about your no scale situation, but it would be like a ships captain with no compass, or a machinist with no micrometer.

shouldifail
November 29, 2008, 09:27 AM
thanks fellas...
i've got a scale, so measuring how much the autodisk or powder measure is throwing isn't an issue.

i guess what i need to do is perhaps pick up some more loading reference.

still new to the reloading game, so i just wanted to cross reference before i wasted alot of components or did something dangerous.

thanks again.

Walkalong
November 29, 2008, 11:15 AM
Check the Alliant data? (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm) They should know. :)

rcmodel
November 29, 2008, 11:32 AM
6.5 grains of Unique and a 230 cast RN has been the Factory Duplication load for GI hardball for as long as I have been reloading.

It piles the empty brass on top of GI hardball brass out of both my 1911's.

rcmodel

Five of Clubs
November 29, 2008, 09:57 PM
I went through the same thing a few months ago (same Lee manual). I tried from 5.0-5.6 grains Unique under the same cast LRN also using a SA1911 and then later an XD. The 5.0 was a nice, light target load that I stuck with after trials. The 5.4 and 5.6 grain loads, to my surprise, were recoiling harder and ejecting farther than the WWB FMJ rounds that I brought that day. The 1911 has a fresh Wilson 18.5# recoil spring, so I shouldn't have been undersprung.

My recipe is:
5.0gr Unique
230gr Magnus LRN
OAL 1.264 (IIRC)
Diameter .471

It's a soft shooter, but probably not a great defensive round.

twodawgs
November 30, 2008, 12:18 AM
I'm using 5.6 gr. of Unique with both 200 and 230 grain lead bullets. The 200's feel about like a buzzed up 9MM and the 230's feel like a real .45

Sunray
November 30, 2008, 12:37 AM
My Colt likes 4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain RN or Flat Point. It's a nice light target load that's scary accurate out of my pistol.
"...A good scale needs to be part of your gear..." Absolutely.

rfwobbly
November 30, 2008, 09:03 AM
"...A good scale needs to be part of your gear..." Absolutely.

...and a infinitely variable powder dispenser.

wcwhitey
November 30, 2008, 10:39 AM
What RC Model said, long established load. A soft load with that bullet is 6.0 grains of Unique.

SlamFire1
November 30, 2008, 03:35 PM
For me, if I were to try Unique again in the 45 ACP, I would try 5-5.5 grains and see what happens.

I am not using my M1911 Kimber in any sort of self defense role. But I dont like too wimpy of loads. The original 1910ish vintage load was a 230 FMJ, Bullseye, at 800 fps. When I push 230s less than or equal to 800 fps, I get good accuracy and it goes not beat the pistol up.

My testing with 6.0 and 6.5 grains Unique gave me higher velocities than I wanted. Brass was ejected a good distance, and that tells me that the slide was coming back hard. I dont like that.

When I finally use the last of my W231, I am going to go with 4.5 grains Bullseye.

M1911 Kimber Custom Classic


230 LRN Valiant 6.0 grs Unique lot UN387 6/21/93 Mixed brass WLP
18-Mar-07 T = 62 F OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"

Ave Vel =898
Std Dev =21.44
ES = 75.58
High = 944.3
Low = 868.7
N = 25

accurate lots recoil, 15' foot ejection

230 LRN Valiant 6.5 grs Unique lot UN387 6/21/93 Mixed brass WLP
18-Mar-07 T = 62 F
OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"

Ave Vel =926.4
Std Dev =16.64
ES = 71.16
High = 963.4
Low = 892.3
N = 32
accurate centered hard recoil, 20 foot ejection, light leading


230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP
21-Jun-06 T = 97 F
OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel =805.2
Std Dev =11.4
ES = 54.08
High = 836.9
Low = 782.8
N = 32
accurate, stout recoil

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