Meaning of ATF Form 4473 - 12F?


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GHF
November 29, 2008, 03:45 PM
Is there some sort of explaination of this part of the form. It concerns individuals who may be prohibited from buying firearms (and I assume possessing). It was reworded after Virginia Tech.

It does not affect me, but I have some relatives (wife's side) that have begun to indicate an interest in purchasing/CCW firearms.

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General Geoff
November 29, 2008, 04:08 PM
What part of the question are you concerned with?

allank
November 29, 2008, 04:12 PM
12f. "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Previous discussion might help:
"Need SPECIFICS as to mental health legal issues"
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=329087.html

Particularly post #11:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4061701&postcount=11

Smithiac
November 29, 2008, 04:16 PM
If you answer yes to that question they are not permited to transfer the gun even if thebackground check is passed.

Bubba613
November 29, 2008, 07:52 PM
If someone answers yes to that question you (meaning the FFL) are not allowed to submit the application for processing. The process must be stopped right there and the sale denied.

Oro
November 29, 2008, 10:05 PM
Bear in mind these phrases are legally specific and they refer to being judged in a court or forcibly committed by the state. Voluntarily seeking mental health counseling, either outpatient or inpatient, does not bar the person in 12f.

I believe the links allank posted above address this - so don't jump to a conclusion someone is banned without checking the "legal-ese."

jfh
November 29, 2008, 11:07 PM
The key concept here is that "adjudicated" and "committed" have specific legal definitions. Keep in mind that the 4473 is a federal form, and that state laws may or may not reference the terms here.

IOW, some states also have reporting rules and rules--NJ? CA?--that are much less well-developed as law--not to mention a substantive amount of case law to assist in their definition.

Jim H.

7.62X25mm
November 30, 2008, 03:02 AM
cyber glitch

7.62X25mm
November 30, 2008, 03:03 AM
cyber glitch

7.62X25mm
November 30, 2008, 03:06 AM
There was a big flap a while back (not sure when) that the Veterans Admin was "default" designating veterans "at risk for harming self or others" in relation to diagnosing PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).

The rationale behind the VA designation was to provide a "safety net" for veterans to keep them from "falling through the cracks" with regard to adequately diagnose suicidal or violent ideation in returning veterans.

The upshot of the VA protocol was that veterans were being denied RKBA because of this "federal" designation.

Supposedly, this issue has been cleared away and veterans RKBA rights restored. I know lots of veterans diagnosed with PTSD as a service connected disability. This diagnosis seemingly does not affect NICS.

"Adjudicated" and "committed" are specific legal terms with regard to diagnosis/assessment of mental competence.

Thin Black Line
November 30, 2008, 09:45 AM
Bear in mind these phrases are legally specific and they refer to being judged in a court or forcibly committed by the state. Voluntarily seeking mental health counseling, either outpatient or inpatient, does not bar the person in 12f.

That is key here. If someone fought their commitment in court and were
ordered into in-patient psychiatric care by the judge, then they are prohibited.

If someone's doctor/therapist "recommends" they get inpatient care, the
person consents and goes into care, and is then discharged, then 12f still
does NOT apply to them.

Veterans simply diagnosed with PTSD are not considered in any different
manner in the system that I am aware of.

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