NJ guys: Rules for transporting gun & ammo to and from range?


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JDNJ1985
November 29, 2008, 04:21 PM
Hi guys,

I'm new to the scene and had a couple of questions about transporting my rifle to and from the range.

The gun is obviously always unloaded, breach open, safety flag installed, and in it's case, in the trunk of my car.

What is the deal with ammo? Can it also be in the trunk? Does it have to be in a locked box? Or can it be stored freely in a bag?

Thanks.

-Joe

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dcal
November 29, 2008, 07:04 PM
Check out this thread.
http://njcsd.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2398

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons. (http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=320724&Depth=2&depth=2&expandheadings=on&headingswithhits=on&hitsperheading=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&record={1A0F}&softpage=Doc_Frame_PG42)

everallm
November 29, 2008, 07:51 PM
Unloaded,

Out of sight,

No loaded magazines in the same carry case/"secured area" as the firearm. Unloaded and separate ammunition is OK

Take your FID with you

No requirement to safety flag or open breech the firearm

Ignore any BS about "HP's are illegal in NJ"

I invested in a stack of small plastic cable ties which I use instead of a physical lock as they meet the same legal requirements to "secure" a case or backpack and I don't have to remember keys......

rscalzo
November 29, 2008, 08:00 PM
Depends on the type of vehicle. If the case is secured in a truck, it does not have to be locked.

If it in the rear of an accessable compartment so common to many vehicles today, it must be secured.

Common sense works well.

JDNJ1985
November 29, 2008, 08:01 PM
Thanks for replies.

My softcase zips up, is this secure enough?

My ammo can be in my back seat, correct? I will probably get a proper ammo box for this. Not sure if I need a lock on it though.

Thanks for the link, some of it was still a bit unclear though.

JDNJ1985
November 29, 2008, 08:02 PM
Yeah, my Civic has the rear panel accessibility.

How else should I secure it in the case?

-Joe

JDNJ1985
November 29, 2008, 08:09 PM
Also, if both case and ammo box are locked, can they be stored in the same place, i.e. my trunk?

I love interpreting NJ gun laws.

-Joe

dcal
November 29, 2008, 09:20 PM
My interpretation of "secure" is not loose. That is my interpretation alone.

I drive a SUV which technically does not have a locked trunk (but I'd hardly call it accessible as I'd have to jump over two sets of seats and under a trunk cover to "access" it. I have my range bag with two pistol pouches independently locked, and my ammo in the separate center pocket. This is not yet lawyer approved and probably a violation, but I've got enough things to worry about and two separate cases for everything is just a liability. I don't to leave something at home, the range, or worse.

I really, really have to talk to my lawyer about this setup.

Tom488
November 29, 2008, 09:28 PM
The relevant statute is 2C:39-6g:

All weapons being transported under paragraph
(2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph
(1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section
shall be carried unloaded and contained in a
closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied
package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile
in which it is being transported, and in the
course of travel shall include only such deviations
as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

Nothing is specifically required of the ammo. So, yes, it can also be in the trunk, stored however you wish. Personally, I always transport ammo in a separate case, with a lock on it - but that's just my preference.

And again, while not specifically prohibited, it is recommended to never transport loaded magazines, regardless of their proximity/relationship to the firearm. NJ does not have a definition of what constitutes a "loaded" firearm - it's just too tempting for a LEO or prosecutor to decide that the magazine is part of the firearm, and therefore if the magazine is loaded, so it the firearm.

dcal
November 29, 2008, 09:55 PM
Tom,

I think the potential problem with ammo stored in same container as firearm is it seems the NJSP combine the state statute with FOPA, making for an ambiguous policy.

NJSP FIU FAQ (http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html)


Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.


The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

everallm
November 30, 2008, 08:50 AM
The intent of the law is that whilst transporting a firearm it is

a) Not immediately accessible
b) Neither loaded OR capable of being made immediately loaded

Take a scenario such as being pulled over for a traffic violation whilst "going to or returning from a legal place to shoot".

The intent is to ensure that an individual cannot either immediately reach for a loaded firearm or as part of a potential vehicle search, reach for a loaded firearm.

It does NOT actually say you cannot have an unloaded firearm AND a loaded magazine in the same secured case but legally it is a baaaaaaaad idea and not worth the potential cost and aggravation.

indiandave
November 30, 2008, 10:28 AM
I have a question. I live in Pennsylvania and work in The garden State. Could I bring my gun to my place of business in New Jersey? Of course locked up in the back of my car.

dcal
November 30, 2008, 10:54 AM
Indiandave, that would depend on where you work. Are you a small business or shop owner? The key here is that you may only transport to and from legal places to have a firearm, with no unreasonable stops.

For example, let's say you own a hardware store and wish to wear a sidearm while there. That is completely legal. If you don't own/rent the place you work I don't see you bringing a gun to work legally.

tbtrout
November 30, 2008, 10:56 AM
indiandave, you can not keep a firearm in your car. In NJ you can only transport it to and from locations with only reasonable deviations. Leaving it in your car at work to shoot after is not reasonable according to the to the Pols.

JDNJ1985
November 30, 2008, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.

I never have loaded magazines when I transport. I always load em up at the range.

So, as long as my case zips shut, I should be ok I'm assuming.

I am going to buy a proper ammo box that is able to be locked, and keep it in my back seat.

This would be sufficient, correct?

-Joe

indiandave
November 30, 2008, 02:26 PM
decal and tbtrout thanks for the info. Yes it's my shop. I rent. I don't think I will chance it but its good to know I could.

dcal
November 30, 2008, 02:53 PM
Actually since it's your shop and you rent, as long as you don't leave it in the trunk, you are good to go. Consider your shop your home. Where it on your hip, under a cover garment, or lock it up in the back. Any way you choose it's all good.

GRIZ22
November 30, 2008, 10:37 PM
Could I bring my gun to my place of business in New Jersey? Of course locked up in the back of my car.

A friend of mine who lives in NJ does it everyday. He carries it in a lockbox to his car, drives to his business, takes it out and carries concealed on his premises and reverses the process to go home. Just be sure you take the gun off and secure it if you're going across the street to get coffee (have them deliver).

Assault Manager
December 27, 2009, 09:48 AM
I carry the ammo in the trunk and the firearm & mags. in closed case (locked), also in trunk. "They" have made issue of having ammo in the driver accessible "compartment" .

geekWithA.45
December 27, 2009, 11:54 PM
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I am a well informed layman, and NJ refugee.

I am going to buy a proper ammo box that is able to be locked,

I recommend generic, plastic or steel opaque lockable toolboxes, rather than anything gun specific that could provide an investigating officer probable cause to suspect that arms are being improperly transported.

A little prevention is worth a pound of cure, when the problem is an officer who doesn't know the law.


*Warning* *Warning* *Warning*

Regarding "place of business", according to Nappen, be aware that the law is interpreted as extending right of arms to solely the owner/proprietor of the business. If you're an employee, night manager, whatever, the exemption does not apply to you.

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