janet napolitano Obama pick for Homeland Security


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Lucky
November 29, 2008, 09:13 PM
Relevance to Firearms: As Gov of Arizona she vetos self-defence legislation that has majority support more than once, at least dealing with presentation of a firearm for SD and length of CCW permits.

Relevance to Freedom: Willing to violate or work against 'the law' in order to achieve own purposes. Ex. In order to make Minutemen appear ineffective she pulled back the border patrol.

Bad News: Sec. of Homeland Security has crazy power.

Summation: She has crazy power, a history of pushing the limits or abusing power, and an axe to grind against basically what this forum represents.

Good luck guys.

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JImbothefiveth
November 29, 2008, 09:20 PM
Oh joy, more change we can cough up! :barf:

But, to keep it on topic, what are her powers exactly?

Lucky
November 29, 2008, 09:28 PM
Imagine if your Department of Defence (I mean 'defense') had just one person who controlled it all, and reported to the President. Now instead of looking outward like the DOD, take that institution and have it focus inward. What the world is to your DOD, America is to the Dept. Homeland Security.

Archie
November 29, 2008, 09:28 PM
The position is Secretary of Homeland Security. It is a cabinet level position, that is, the secretary is the somewhat director and somewhat coordinator of all the various agencies that comprise Homeland Security.

Probably the best way to get the idea is simply call up www.dhs.gov and take a look. Most every agency dealing with the borders or actual interaction with foreign people, travel or trade is connected with, if not in, the Department of Homeland Security. It is a lot of agencies and people, and has a lot of authority.

Balrog
November 29, 2008, 10:07 PM
Relevance to Freedom: Willing to violate or work against 'the law' in order to achieve own purposes.

I think that is a requirement for the job.

Flyboy
November 30, 2008, 01:50 AM
Would referring to it as the "Department of Fatherland Security" be invoking Godwin?

moi_self26
November 30, 2008, 02:18 AM
DOH! Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State and now this...... he's really trying to add insult to injury. I am really scared for the country that I know and love.

7.62X25mm
November 30, 2008, 02:30 AM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ :neener:

Dr. Peter Venkman
November 30, 2008, 02:37 AM
The right to bear arms is enumerated in the Constitution, and is therefore fundamental to the liberty interests of all Americans. I believe elected officials have a duty to ensure that these interests are not abridged. My position on the 2nd Amendment is simple: existing laws related to firearms and their possession are a sufficient framework by which to ensure the safety of all Arizonans. Rather than focusing on new legislation, we must first be vigilant in our enforcement of the laws that are on the books. We must step up outreach and education efforts to ensure that gun safety is at the top the agenda, and work together to mitigate tragic accidents that result from unsupervised firearm use by children. Parents talking to their children about gun safety and practicing gun safety in front of them will accomplish this goal, new legislation will not.

That is from her campaign in 2002. Lucky, where are you getting your information from?

moi_self26
November 30, 2008, 02:46 AM
Hey Dr. Venkman,
Where can I get hooked up w/ one of those uber proton packs? ;)

Diamondback6
November 30, 2008, 03:37 AM
Flyboy, I'm known to refer to 'em as Reichssicherheitministerium or neueStasi, the latter in reference to the East German Staatssicherheitsdienst, and even COMPNOR (reference to the Star Wars COMmision for the Preservation of the New ORder, which another THR'er named himself after). Color me cynical... if you lose on the Godwin point, at least you got company.

Lucky
November 30, 2008, 03:43 AM
I can't find the direct link from Napolitano to Nicely, and it was quite a while ago, but in the thread on the subject here I think the AZ residents were not kind to Napolitano. Consider this, what kind of employee purposely does his job WORSE, and doesn't expect to be punished? The only kind I can think of is one who has been told by his boss specifically to do that job worse.

Ten Congressmen signed a separate letter by Tancredo which calls for the House Judiciary Committee to initiate an investigation into the “stand down” orders.
A dozen Border Patrol agents told the Washington Times that they had been instructed to “stand down” from arresting illegal aliens near where Minutemen protestors had patrolled in April. The agents understood that an increase in arrests would prove the effectiveness of extra manpower on the border and would credit the Minutemen’s approach.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/05/tancredo_calls.php




Governor Janet Napolitano (D) vetoed House Bill 2389 earlier this week.

Simply stated, under HB2389 you would have been allowed to carry a firearm by means of any transportation - other than public transportation - without a concealed carry permit
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4078

PHOENIX — State senators failed by one vote Wednesday to override Gov. Janet Napolitano's veto of legislation to trim gubernatorial powers to seize weapons.

The [vetoed by Napolitano] legislation was a direct outgrowth of incident in New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina where police took firearms from citizens. A judge subsequently blocked that action and ordered the guns returned.

Sen. Dean Martin, R-Phoenix, speculated that Napolitano vetoed the
measure so she could use her emergency powers to take weapons away from members of the Minuteman Project patrolling the Mexican border.
Arzberger said she was "uncomfortable" voting to override a Napolitano veto. But she said her husband, Gus, stationed in Germany after World War II, told her how the Nazis had gained control by going door-to-door, taking the weapons of German citizens.
"He told me we must never let that happen," she said.
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/126550

Gov. Janet Napolitano on Monday vetoed legislation that would have made cars and trucks the same as someone's home, where you could have a gun anywhere, visible or not.

The governor said the measure "would have added to the level of uncertainty and danger law enforcement officers who make traffic stops already face in the line of duty."
But Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, said existing law already allows people to carry holstered weapons in places not visible to someone outside the car, including the glove compartment and the map pocket, the slot in the door. He said his measure would just have simplified the law so as not to make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens.

Italicized the part which shows who she sides with.

Also in article:
She already has rejected measures to:
● Reduce the penalty for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to a fine rather than jail time.
● Allow those with concealed-weapon permits to opt for lifetime registration.
● Permit those who believe they are threatened to unholster a gun without being charged with a crime.
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/247283


That took me a little while, and I don't have a horse in this race, except for the unfortunate pattern that whatever happens in Liberal US states is mimicked up here a short time later, as our use of California's AW laws illustrate.

Could I ask you to provide more support to the opposing viewpoint, other than the word of a politician? Especially the politician who's the subject, being discredited as devious.

armoredman
November 30, 2008, 06:54 AM
Hmm, but the Katrina confiscation prevention law did go into effect, and Napalitano did sign some pro gun legislation over the last few years. Not much, and usually only when faced with a veto proof majority. One interesting thing she did was name Ben Avery Shooting range one of the "jewels" of Arizona.
A thing to keep in mind is she is a lifelong teacher, and believes many things are solved with all-day kindergarten. She waves with the highest wind. As DHS, she will have only one wind to bend to, that of BO.

Dr. Peter Venkman
November 30, 2008, 08:40 AM
I am not arguing for or against what her viewpoints are, I was simply asking for more information, which you have provided.

ArmedBear
November 30, 2008, 08:44 AM
WRT "Katrina protections" note that a similar law even passed in anti-gun California.

divemedic
November 30, 2008, 04:01 PM
The Brady campaign loves her:

Governor Napolitano did the logical thing, she let bar owners decide if they wanted state law to allow people to carry loaded, hidden guns into bars (http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=643)

Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius and Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano, both of whom stood up to the gun lobby, were reelected. (http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=850)

AS Homeland Security director, she would command:

Immigration Control Enforcement (ICE)
TSA
US Customs
Secret Service
Coast Guard
National Cyber Security Center
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Domestic Nuclear Detection Office
US Citizenship and Immigration Services
Nuclear Incident Response Team
National Domestic Preparedness Office

george29
November 30, 2008, 04:24 PM
Scared me for a second, I was thinking of Janet Reno.

TCB in TN
November 30, 2008, 04:31 PM
Scared me for a second, I was thinking of Janet Reno.

I have family down there and from their comments there doesn't seem to be much difference.

WardenWolf
November 30, 2008, 04:33 PM
Don't worry too much about Janet Napolitano. She's nowhere near as bad as some people make her sound. She passed most good gun-related bills, like allowing CCW in the first place. All the really important ones. She's not a major anti who vetoed anything that would increase gun owners' freedoms. She's fairly reserved.

Do I like her? No. I think she's incompetent. Do I think she has a real agenda? No.

cbrgator
November 30, 2008, 04:34 PM
She may not be A+ by the NRA, but she sure is a shining star in comparison to her future colleagues.

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 02:22 PM
What's next? Obama appointing an anti-gun politician who plunges a knife
into a table and screams "DEAD!" everytime he mentions the name of a
political opponent?

Oops...too late...already happened....

Emanuel is known for his "take-no-prisoners attitude" that has earned him the nickname "Rahm-bo." Emanuel is said to have "mailed a rotten fish to a former coworker after the two parted ways." On the night after the 1996 election, "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name." However, by 2007 his close friends were saying that he has "mellowed out."

Say hello to the man who will control access to the President. Sorry, Wayne
LaPierre, don't think you'll be getting a meeting anytime soon....yeah, not
a surprise.

Frog48
December 2, 2008, 03:35 PM
AS Homeland Security director, she would command:

Immigration Control Enforcement (ICE)
TSA
US Customs
Secret Service
Coast Guard
National Cyber Security Center
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Domestic Nuclear Detection Office
US Citizenship and Immigration Services
Nuclear Incident Response Team
National Domestic Preparedness Office

You forgot a pretty important agency on your list: United States Border Patrol.

divemedic
December 2, 2008, 04:38 PM
You forgot a pretty important agency on your list: United States Border Patrol.

No I didn't. The US Border Patrol is part of US Customs, the full name of which is US Customs and Border Protection.

GRIZ22
December 2, 2008, 05:52 PM
In order to make Minutemen appear ineffective she pulled back the border patrol.


As Governor she has no say over the Border Patrol. After she gets sworn in as Secretary of DHS sjhe owns it.

Immigration Control Enforcement (ICE)


Actually that's Immigration and Customs Enforcement that was formed by the old Immigration Investigations and Customs Office of Investigations.

The US Border Patrol is part of US Customs, the full name of which is US Customs and Border Protection.

There is no US Customs anymore. The investigative duties of Immigration and Customs are now preformed by ICE and the inspection duties by Customs and Border Protection the former Customs and Immigration Inspectors. The Border Patrol is a division of CBP.

Frog48
December 2, 2008, 06:21 PM
The US Border Patrol is part of US Customs, the full name of which is US Customs and Border Protection.

Its known as CBP; its hasnt been called "US Customs" since 2003, when it was chopped from Treasury. And although Border Patrol is administratively a branch of CBP, the Border Patrol is considered a distinct law enforcement agency since CBP has its own uniformed officer division different than Border Patrol.

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