Guess the AR manufacturer by these pics.


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SHvar
November 30, 2008, 04:49 AM
I have always noticed the enormous amount of threads about certain brands of AR-15 rifles not being equipped with certain features, and the individuals that claim these brands dont have these features always start with these 2 features, gas keys being staked properly, also chrome lined chamber and bore.

Today, at the range with a few friends that have AR rifles of various manufacturers we were talking about this subject. So after a good cleaning and coating of oil, 2 rifles were selected to make these 2 primary comparisons.
Keep in mind the layer of oil is very shiney, so the pictures can be a bit blurry, some of these I tried to take several times to get better examples.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/gaskey1.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/boltcarriergaskey-1.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/chromechamber2.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/chromechamber1.jpg
Notice both have properly staked gas keys, both have chrome lined chamber and bore, so what brands are represented in these pictures?

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Click Click Boom
November 30, 2008, 05:32 AM
Charles Daly LE model?

CSestp
November 30, 2008, 06:22 AM
Airsoft?

Kino74
November 30, 2008, 06:25 AM
Airsoft?

Oh come on man, you know it is really Century Arms or possibly Hesse Arms! J/K ;)

On a more serious note, I take it this rifle is listed as not having those features on the chart?

RyanM
November 30, 2008, 06:26 AM
Looks like Colt and CMMG to me. Though they're too blurry for a positive ID.

taliv
November 30, 2008, 11:09 AM
take some better pics. They are too blurry to see the stake

Walkalong
November 30, 2008, 11:15 AM
Yep, do them justice, take better pics.

feedthehogs
November 30, 2008, 12:21 PM
Oil does not a blurry picture make.

Loomis
November 30, 2008, 12:45 PM
Oil on the camera does

highorder
November 30, 2008, 12:55 PM
Use the macro setting that looks like a flower. Lose the flash, use ambient light.

lencac
November 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
Hope your profession is not as a photographer :neener:
But I'd say one is a Colt

gvnwst
November 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
Better pics plz.

wacki
November 30, 2008, 01:48 PM
hit the flower button on your camera and retake the pictures.

rob_s
November 30, 2008, 01:49 PM
The lengths to which some people will go, only to fall tragically short at the finish line.

:rolleyes:

taliv
November 30, 2008, 02:06 PM
lencac, if one of them was a colt, there would be no point in the thread.

if some 2nd or 3rd tier mfg has recently started improving their product, then that's a good thing and I applaud them for it.

if the OP is trying to show that substandard products are 'as good as' based on a sample size of 1, it should be entertaining

hankdatank1362
November 30, 2008, 02:12 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=243382

Okay, so staked gas key and chrome lined bore. 2 down, 32 more to go.

franconialocal
November 30, 2008, 02:14 PM
Looks alot like my Bushmaster....but tidy up the photos of the key!!

lencac
November 30, 2008, 02:29 PM
taliv you are probably right ...... but I just said colt cause it looks like mine which is a colt

Kino74
November 30, 2008, 03:30 PM
So spill the beans. Which one is it?

MisterPX
November 30, 2008, 06:15 PM
I has m4 feedramps, the other doesn't.

SHvar
December 1, 2008, 04:33 PM
The pictures were blurry because of lighting (yes, too dim) and because light was reflecting from fresh oil only to add to it. It may be a while to get these 2 pictures updated.
By the way, I was reading that 32 reasons list, and was easily able to reduce that list to 10 total actual differences from each of the major manufacturers of ARs (well I cant speak for those that use plastic recievers, but thats a different comparison, they should maybe make airsoft guns instead).
Its interesting so far what responces have actually demonstrated.
Both models have the same gas key staking, identical in fact.
Yes, one has M-4 feedramps.
More later on this, more pictures of features will follow later.

Gunnerpalace
December 1, 2008, 05:15 PM
I'll guess CDD-15 regular.

cracked butt
December 1, 2008, 05:23 PM
I'm guessing one of them is one of the much maligned Bushmasters, and I'm guessing its the top one by the two different colored parkerized pieces.

taliv
December 1, 2008, 05:31 PM
every colt i've had exhibited different a color on the upper from the lower

FlyinBryan
December 1, 2008, 11:11 PM
although the pics look cell phone terrible, they both look to have well staked gas keys.

hard to tell about the feed ramps as one looks to be at a different angle.

the one on the top to be a little better finish.

the edges and finish of the one on bottom seem to be a little rough.

im going to say rra or bm for the top, and colt or lmt for the bottom, even though my colt had a better finish than the bottom one from what i can see.

longdayjake
December 2, 2008, 01:10 AM
one is dpms and the other is rock river.

RyanM
December 2, 2008, 01:49 AM
Oh, wait, wasn't paying attention.

Anyway, about the only companies that stake like that are Colt, BCM, LMT (sometimes, most times the staking is narrower), and CMMG. I still guess Colt and CMMg.

railroader
December 2, 2008, 01:52 AM
colt and dpms.

ugaarguy
December 2, 2008, 02:25 AM
It's SHvar, so one is a DPMS. I'd love to see better pics of the feedramps - without oil - so we can see if the one with the M4 ramps had them dremeled in after the receiver was anodized. As for carrier key staking, you can do that yourself (but you shouldn't have to when you buy from a quality manufacturer).

Kurt_D
December 2, 2008, 03:01 AM
On the bottom one, unless it's oil, it has shinny feed ramps. It's probably RRA.

The other could be 1 of a 100 others. See the thing with bolt barriers is there's only a few places making them for everyone. They could both very well have the exact same carrier. The staking job is good on both, but so are my Bushies. The thing is conisitancy, I've seen some that aren't.

ETA: I know what you're trying to say/do. A lot of the differences you'll never see. Example: You'll never be able to tell the difference between 4150, 4140, and vandium steel barrels. You'll never see the proof load, shot pinning and MP testing. You won't know your threads aren't prefect.

What you will see are the proof marks saying it's done and the lower failure rate and a undamaged surpressor.

no.5enfield
December 2, 2008, 10:54 AM
BCM and DPMS
BTW: My RRA has feedramps but the staking was so poor I don't understand why they even bothered. I did it right and fast with minimal tools and no experience. So why don't they?

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 02:24 PM
The phenomenon of improperly staked keys is something that has always struck me as annoying, but not terrible. Annoying, because it is an obviously cut-corner that can cause the weapon to fail, and you would expect a maker to do it right (and, it makes you wonder what else they screwed up). I say it is not terrible, however, because it is easy to see and easy to correct.

Mike

RyanM
December 2, 2008, 04:26 PM
I say it is not terrible, however, because it is easy to see and easy to correct.

Ah, but you're forgetting torquing. If my memory is correct, the specification is 55 +/-2 in-lbs of torque. A lot of manufacturers seem to just hand-tighten the bolts. I believe I read about someone using a torque wrench and gradually increasing the torque until the bolts in his Bushmaster BC came out (staking didn't even touch them). One was in the low 30's in-lbs, the other low 40's.

Sure, it's not that big a deal to wang on the key with a screwdriver, but you want to be sure they're torqued correctly first.

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 04:40 PM
I still file this under "not terribly hard to do". I'm much more concerned about mystery parts like the bolt. That can look just fine- until it doesn't.

Mike

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