NJ - out of state long gun purchase.


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Lovesbeer99
November 30, 2008, 10:47 AM
So there are plenty of gun shows in nearby PA. I'm being told that if I want to buy a long gun out of state, as long as it's legal in NJ (it's not banned in NJ) that I can purchase it and bring it back as long as I follow the laws in the state of purchase.

For instance, in PA they don't regulate blackpowder, so I can buy a muzzelloader at Cabelas, or a gun show and just bring it back home to NJ. Muzzelloaders are no illegal in NJ (yet) and I have a NJ long gun permit. Also I can buy a remington 700 rifle, have my NICS check done, then bring it home. As far as I know the only guns I need to SHIP to NJ are handguns.

I don't see the point of having to pay to have it sent to a NJ FFL, who will charge a transfer fee, and a NICS charge if I can just go pick one up. On the other hand I don't want to spend 10 years in prison for trying to save 75.00 bucks. I just want to do it the right way.

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tbtrout
November 30, 2008, 10:52 AM
That is the way I remember it. But there have been a few changes over the years. Whenever I have a question I call the NJSP fireams unit in Trenton.

deadin
November 30, 2008, 11:20 AM
Just an addendum. If you buy a long gun "out of State" it must be "legal" for you to do so in both States AND you must buy it from a licensed dealer in the other State. You cannot legally buy FTF in any State other than your own and only then if FTF is legal in your State. (See California.)

JoeFish
November 30, 2008, 11:31 AM
I lived in New Jersey for 17 years and though that was in the past, I bought all but one of my long guns in PA, since they were usually cheaper and I did most of my shooting up in French Creek State Park. I also bought a ton of stuff at the Valley Forge shows.

At that time (1997 ish and prior) it was only required to do a FFL-FFL transfer if you were buying a handgun, though there were dealers at some of the gun shows that would let you walk out of the place with it.

I never had a bad experience personally, but I'm sure every gun owner in NJ has heard horror stories of someone being outside the law. Not a good state to push anything, I would double check with Trenton.

State Police Firearms Unit 609-882-2000

dcal
November 30, 2008, 11:56 AM
IANAL, but I believe you need your NJ drivers license, firearm purchaser ID, and two copies of the certificate of eligibility (http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sp-634.pdf) for each firearm being purchased (one each to be retained by seller and buyer).

dcal
November 30, 2008, 12:13 PM
For all those that recommend contacting the NJFIU. They are not lawyers, and as such will probably all give you a different answer every time you ask. Unfortunately the laws in NJ are so ambiguous it's nearly impossible to interpret them.

For example:

Q6.


How do you transport firearms?


A6.


Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.

Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

This will keep you legal, but neither FOPA nor the state statute says anything about keeping the ammo in a separate container.

JoeFish
November 30, 2008, 12:22 PM
It's true that Staties are not lawyers, but every one I have talked to has been sympathetic to the situation NJ gun owners are in. Many go out of their way to have sound information about FAQs and- without paying for an attorney- are an excellent place to start.

My usual MO with NJ gun laws was to ask at the local precinct and check out what they said with the Staties. If I got a match, I was satisfied, if not, I kept digging.

dcal
November 30, 2008, 12:42 PM
The two NJ RKBA organizations I belong to have lawyers on retainer available for legal consult on these types of questions. I even had a friend contact a private well known firearms attorney in the area and to both our surprise he received some free advice regarding some firearms related questions he had.

I don't particularly care for lawyers, and I prefer to have as little contact with LE as possible. But if I have to use one, I'd prefer the lawyer because at least I know I'll get accurate info and it will be in my best interest.

*ETA: I've had some pretty bad experiences here in NJ while trying to deal with LE regarding acquisition of permits, IDs, and info. All but one experience had been either apathy or confrontation and intimidation.

Tom488
November 30, 2008, 09:30 PM
IANAL, but I believe you need your NJ drivers license, firearm purchaser ID, and two copies of the certificate of eligibility for each firearm being purchased (one each to be retained by seller and buyer).

That's correct. I purchase firearms from Cabela's in PA quite often - and that's the drill. State-issued photo ID (DL usually) and FID card (with matching addresses - sale is a no-go if the addr on the ID doesn't match the addr on the FID), and fill out a Cert. of Elegibility (two-part form - you get the yellow copy, FFL keeps the white copy). This is all in addition to the 4473, of course.

Lovesbeer99
December 1, 2008, 06:44 AM
Whats a 4473? Is that the nics check or a PA state thing.

Also, the cert of eligibility is a NJ State thing if I'm not mistaken. Do I have to bring my own copy or will Cabelas have one? What about an FFL at a small gun shop or even at a gun show in PA? Will they know what a COE is?

everallm
December 1, 2008, 07:10 AM
4473 is the NICS check

Cert of eligibility is a requirement for FTF long arm sales in NJ and only is held by the seller and the buyer only. All it does is formalize the questions that you should ask anyway and acts as a receipt of sale.

Cabella's may have them on hand if they do a lot of business with NJ residents, if not print out and take 2 copies as a just in case.

Highland Ranger
December 1, 2008, 07:58 AM
If you join anjrpc the state NRA org, you are entitled to free firearms related legal advice. Better than the State Police who have been known to get things wrong.

See http://www.anjrpc.org

Tom488
December 1, 2008, 12:33 PM
Cabella's may have them on hand if they do a lot of business with NJ residents
Cabela's definitely has them - they're well-versed in the intracacies of NJ firearms law (except when they insisted I HAD to buy a case when I bought a used rifle, as I couldn't transport the rifle back into NJ uncased. I politely informed them they were wrong).

Actually, a form 4473 is just a firearms transfer form, required by the ATF for all firearms transfers from licensee (FFL) to non-licensee (us) - it existed long before NICS, or the Brady bill. Reference the 1984 movie Red Dawn, where the Soviet commander tells his subordinate to raid the local gun shops, grab all the 4473's, and proceed to confiscate all privately-owned weapons. :)

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