Can a unlicensed partner go while hunting ?


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nathan
November 30, 2008, 11:46 AM
I have a friend who wants to try hunting. I told him to just buy his annual public hunting license . But he told me his wife wants to come along. She will not get the hunting license but will be tagging along into the woods. Is that allowed ? My friend will make the shot if we see game but just wondering if a nonlicensed person is allowed in the hunting area. This is gonna be at Sam Houston National Forest, San Jacinto Cty, Texas.[/I]

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WardenWolf
November 30, 2008, 01:59 PM
Absolutely. Guide services do it all the time, and many people enlist the aid of friends to haul game. As long as the unlicensed individual is not armed, it is perfectly legal for them to accompany you.

nathan
November 30, 2008, 02:03 PM
Thanks.

drgrenthum
November 30, 2008, 02:54 PM
double check that, states are different. In Florida it is technically true that one does not have to have a license if they are just accompianing the hunter. If they participate in the "take" helping dress, load, spot, etc. they are condsidered to be hunting and have to have a license. Just because you dont have a gun doesnt mean you are not hunting (archer, trapping, baying pigs and knifing them)

paintballdude902
November 30, 2008, 05:03 PM
alot of states if you help at all you must have a license

i know dog handlers need them and anyone planning on cleaning the animal in the field does too

NCsmitty
November 30, 2008, 06:29 PM
Just have her bring the camera and archive the hunt.

NCsmitty

3pairs12
November 30, 2008, 08:56 PM
Hey nathan it says in the public lands booklet that only the hunter is required to have the APH. She might need to wear the proper amount of orange still because that part was unclear.

CSA 357
December 1, 2008, 08:24 PM
Sure its ok, i take my girlfriend all the time, but dont tell my wife!:D

rem870hunter
December 1, 2008, 09:36 PM
i take atleast 1 of my sons at times when i go,he wear the neccesary orange, he carries no firearm. but knows how to use mine just in case.

huan
December 1, 2008, 09:49 PM
The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is some State Trust Land is restricted access unless you have written permission (your hunting license is considered a valid permit) to be there. Several places in Arizona are like that anyhow. I'm not too familiar with other states.

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 09:55 PM
Sure its ok, i take my girlfriend all the time, but dont tell my wife!

You know she reads this right? :evil:

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 09:56 PM
i take atleast 1 of my sons at times when i go,he wear the neccesary orange, he carries no firearm. but knows how to use mine just in case.

My dad took me out for a few years without carrying anything. Got me used to being out there, being around deer, and learning the area before having at it.
Pretty good thing to do I think...

Bill2e
December 5, 2008, 09:09 AM
IMHO everyone should be licienced. That money SHOULD go back into helping our outdoor resources. They are participating and should pay the nominal license fee like everyone else.

Art Eatman
December 5, 2008, 09:52 AM
Bill2e, I agree in principle, but let's don't push that one very hard, okay? And, the reasoning is off-topic...

Art

mcwjr13
December 5, 2008, 12:42 PM
You may want to mention to your friend that he needs to have completed the states hunter safety course or have gotten his one year exemption. Of course this depends on his age.

ojibweindian
December 5, 2008, 01:26 PM
In Alabama, the definition of hunting, found in the Alabama Regulations Relating to Game, Fish, and Fur-Bearing Animals is as follows:

Hunting includes pursuing, shooting, killing, capturing and trapping wild animals, wild fowl, wild birds, and all lesser acts, such as disturbing, harrying or worrying, or placing, setting, drawing, or using any device used to take wild animals, wild fowl, wild birds, whether they result in taking or not, and includes every act of assistance to any person in taking or attempting to take wild animals, wild fowl, or wild birds.

So, in Alabama, anyone wanting to help in dragging my deer out would have to buy a liscense

buck460XVR
December 5, 2008, 03:17 PM
In Wisconsin, unlicensed partners can accompany and assist a hunter, but cannot carry a weapon. If they call for Turkey or Waterfowl, even if they don't have a weapon, they must have a license if they are calling for another hunter.

moosehunt
December 6, 2008, 03:48 PM
Think about this a minute--regarding the carrying of a gun in the field. With the exception of a few states such as MA, NY, perhaps a couple of others, the second amendment of the US Constitution allows people to pocess firearms. It does not specify "except in the woods", and it doesn't say "provided they have a hunting license". Consequently, I believe it is legal for an unlicensed person to be carrying a firearm while in the woods, the illeagal aspect only applying if they were to attempt to shoot a protected animal. I pushed the issue once in CO. I was with a friend who was hunting (legally). I had no license, but did have a gun. A game warden checked us and was all upset with me, going to write a citation. I brought up the second amendment issue, said go ahead and give me a ticket, I'm sure I'll beat it in court. He thought about it awhile, decided I was right, no ticket. Of course he emphasized that I couldn't shoot at game, I agreed. Case closed. Now there may be states with exception rules to this, but they also may be unconstitutional rules.

As to the original question, I suggest that one best check individual state regs regarding helping a hunter, but again, just being in the woods? No way can that be illegal. As to wearing the required orange, only an idiot wouldn't wear it, but if they are not hunting, it can't be forced on them. There may be such, but I never have heard of a state that has a law that states that any person venturing in or near the woods, even during hunting season, must wear orange--they may advise it, but it's not law. For a state to say that an unlicensed person can't be in your company while you are hunting would be the same as saying that no unlicensed person may enter a potential hunting area (I'm referring to public land here, i.e. NFS or BLM) at any time during the hunting season. I don't think so! Those lands do not become "licensed hunters only" land during the hunting season. Helping a hunter is a different matter, depending on state.

wyocarp
December 6, 2008, 04:15 PM
It would be wise to wear orange if you are knowingly in an active hunting area even if it isn't the law, but only hunters have to wear it.

It is legal to carry a gun where it is legal to have a gun, including national parks now, so long as you are not hunting.

As for the girlfriend thing. I think that is legal as well. But not all things are prudent. It works for me as long as the girlfriend continues to be my wife.

moosehunt
December 7, 2008, 12:59 PM
Just a suggestion, but if you take your girlfriend, be very selective about your trophy photos (and careful about who you show them to!).

mp510
December 8, 2008, 12:09 PM
Think about this a minute--regarding the carrying of a gun in the field. With the exception of a few states such as MA, NY, perhaps a couple of others, the second amendment of the US Constitution allows people to pocess firearms. It does not specify "except in the woods", and it doesn't say "provided they have a hunting license". Consequently, I believe it is legal for an unlicensed person to be carrying a firearm while in the woods, the illeagal aspect only applying if they were to attempt to shoot a protected animal. I pushed the issue once in CO. I was with a friend who was hunting (legally). I had no license, but did have a gun. A game warden checked us and was all upset with me, going to write a citation. I brought up the second amendment issue, said go ahead and give me a ticket, I'm sure I'll beat it in court. He thought about it awhile, decided I was right, no ticket. Of course he emphasized that I couldn't shoot at game, I agreed. Case closed. Now there may be states with exception rules to this, but they also may be unconstitutional rules.


In many states, carrying a gun in a hunting area is prima facie evidemce pf hunting- whether you are there to stalk and shoot animals or are just carrying a gun.

bejay
December 8, 2008, 04:09 PM
while you have the right to carry a gun even if not hunting, but most any game warden is gonna have a problem with it if you do not have a license or permit and would issue a ticket for hunting game without a license while it could probably be beat in court you would probably spend alot more than just paying the fine to begin with wich usually isnt much however if it was a large fine or loss of hunting rights you would probably see it challenged in court much more often.
IMHO everyone should be licienced. That money SHOULD go back into helping our outdoor resources. They are participating and should pay the nominal license fee like everyone else.
totally diasgree believe most states outdoor resources have been mismanaged just to get more revenue in permit sales to begin with.

CoRoMo
December 8, 2008, 04:32 PM
My state requires a type of "wilderness access stamp" be purchased by anyone who plans to go hiking, camping, etc. However, I've never witnessed it being enforced.
It would have to be purchased and carried for anyone helping or guiding on a hunt.

PryItFromMyColdDeadHands
December 8, 2008, 05:17 PM
In Georgia they can......I think.

wyocarp
December 8, 2008, 07:52 PM
Okay, this happened last fall. My son and I were out shooting gophers on the opening day of antelope season for the area we usually shoot gophers in. That day, we took our large bore lever guns as we were going to be going bear hunting a couple weeks later and were getting familiar with them again.

I stopped to look at a fox on the side of the road and had stepped out with my rifle. I had my binoculars on my chest, an orange camo hat on, and my rifle in my hand.

At that very moment, a game warden pulled up behind us and got out. Everything about my truck said, "WE ARE HUNTING." His first question was, "Are you hunting?"

My response, "No."
Warden - "You aren't hunting?" (while looking around at the truck and us)
Me - "Nope."
Warden - "What are you doing, if you aren't hunting?"
Me - "Shooting gophers."
Warden - "It's opening day for antelope in this area."
Me - "I know. But I'm not shooting antelope."
Warden - "Okay (grudgingly), be safe."


Bottom line, if it isn't illegal, don't be bullied. I actually thought this encounter was pretty funny.

moosehunt
December 10, 2008, 02:00 AM
mp510 and bejay, if you take that pushed over attitude, you loose and indeed we all loose because of your attitude. bejay, that just plays right into the socialists hand! No way any educated game warden is going to ticket you, and if he does, you are a fool if you let it ride by doing anything less than assuring that he loose his job for harassment! You are saying that some dildo can adjust the Constitution to his liking? Talk about bending over and letting them pack you full of sand!!! What a looser attitude! mp510, prima facia my butt!! You and I have a right, and if you buy that BS, pitty you and us both. If I've offended anyone, I'm NOT sorry!!! Don't stand there like a limp lilly and give it away!!

bejay
December 10, 2008, 09:19 AM
moosehunt a gamewarden isnt adjusting the constitution by writing a ticket for hunting without a permit, it is just that evidence suggest you are hunting even though in some cases you may not be, its up to you to prove that you wasnt hunting in court if you want out of it, but I doubt that just bringing up the 2nd amendment right is enough to get you out of the fine, any moron could say that whether he was hunting or not.
while I would try to get out of it if I was ticketed and not actually hunting but im not going to hire a lawyer for a 60 dollar fine that doesnt affect your hunting rights or right to bear arms and yes I have been ticketed for it before but I guess I deserved it as I was hunting without a permit

skers69
December 10, 2008, 05:55 PM
Check your state regs. In Kansas you need do need a permint.

moosehunt
December 14, 2008, 01:25 AM
I realize that some states have a regulation that says you have to have a permit to hunt anything, suggesting that you can't be out in the woods (or "game areas") with a gun if you don't have a license. I maintain that if you are not hunting, they cannot enforce it. What if you have a gun and no ammo in it? Or to a greater extreme, no ammo with you for the gun in question? All of which is immaterial. You cannot be barred from pocessing a firearm just because some season is open. What about places where there is always a season open? In some (many?) states, rabbit season never closes--same for coyotes. A license is required to hunt rabbits, but not coyotes. By your reasoning, you could not hunt coyotes without a license because rabbit season is open. The fact that you insert deer, or whatever, in the open season species wording doesn't matter. Basically, the point is that you cannot be barred from carrying a firearm on public land. Incidently, Bejay, one does not have to prove innocense in this country. You are innocent until proven guilty. It has to be proven that you are hunting, not just hunting, but hunting an animal for which you are not licensed. Consider a somewhat synonymous situation: Pheasant season is open, you are licensed for pheasant and hunting them. There are sloughs in the area and ducks. Duck season is open. You occasionally jump ducks. You do not have a Duck Stamp. Also, you have lead shot. You can not be charged with hunting ducks without a stamp and/or with lead shot UNLESS you take a shot at a duck, no matter how many ducks you jump up and no matter how few (none?) pheasants you jump or shoot. Even if you choose to have non-toxic shot in your gun, until you take a shot at a duck, you are not hunting ducks and can't be cited for not having a stamp. It is the same scenerio. It has to be shown that you are hunting something before you can be cited for carrying a firearm on public property.

wyocarp
December 14, 2008, 12:05 PM
moosehunt, I couldn't agree more. The wardens don't like it when they can't catch you doing something wrong, but I don't let that bother me.

bensdad
December 14, 2008, 12:11 PM
Check state regs. In MN, you can't accompany w/o a license. Think about it. Another set of eyes, ears, legs, etc. darn near doubles the chance of contact with game. It only takes one of you to shoot it.

moosehunt
December 14, 2008, 12:33 PM
That is not the issue, bensdad. It is whether or not one can be in the woods with a firearm without a license. That said, I have to wonder about the socialist "regulation" in MN saying that one can't even accompany w/o a license. Just what might be considered accompany? If we drive out together and you wander off hunting deer, I wander off looking for mushrooms, how close are we "allowed" to be? As the morning progresses, our two paths unknowingly come close together. Does that mean me, with no license, am off to jail if a warden comes along? "OK, buddy! You're too close and I think you might be together. Let's go!" What if we meet for lunch out there in the wild woods? I really wonder if they could enforce barring one from being in the woods without a hunting license? Now if I'm assisting you in your hunt, I understand, but just being there enjoying the outdoors, happens to be in your pressence? I think not an enforceable crime! Or what about a situationwhere we didn't even start out together. You went deer hunting this AM, me, I went mushroom hunting. 11:45 AM and we bump into each other: "Hey, Bensdad, how are you? Long time no see! What have you been up too lately?" "Oh, not much. Just out looking for a buckskin this morning. I was just fixing to have a cup of coffee. Want one? I got plenty." "Sure, thanks." Now from behind a tree steps Joe G. Warden. "Hello, boys. Let's see your licenses. What? You don't have one? And you're out here with Bensdad? Let's go!"

Now, realistically, I see why MN might have such a rule, so that there really aren't two guys hunting on one license. And in reality, there aren't many situations where a guy would be with you and wouldn't be helping you hunt. But maybeso your cook or your girlfriend IS along purely for the outdoors (indeed, more of a hinderance than a help), or your young pup who is too young to legally poccess a license. Is it right that these folks are criminals because the haven't shelled out $50 (or whatever the local fee) for a license for something they aren't hunting, or in the one case, can't hunt?

bensdad
December 14, 2008, 01:53 PM
:rolleyes:

Whatever. I didn't come here to argue about socialist agendas. Do what you want. All I said was check the regs.

Go ahead and hang out in MN with your friend who's hunting. Then, argue semantics with the warden.

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