NFA Weapons


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30mag
November 30, 2008, 01:19 PM
So, I'm 18...
Can I own a title II firearm?

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PTK
November 30, 2008, 01:21 PM
Yes, absolutely. Can't buy them from dealers, though! Odd laws, really....

I ended up submitting Form 1s starting at age 19, I believe - everything went through. I've had a SBR PS90 since age 20, also on a Form 1.

30mag
November 30, 2008, 01:26 PM
So, I need an FFL, right?

And how do I begin my journey to title II firearms?

kurtmax
November 30, 2008, 02:18 PM
Don't need an FFL.

You need to either find someone in your state with a NFA firearm that is willing to transfer it to you

OR

It's probably easier to manufacture one by submitting a Form 1 to the ATF and getting a tax stamp.

What type of NFA firearm are you trying to get?

WardenWolf
November 30, 2008, 02:52 PM
I would wait. Because I suspect ownership of NFA weapons might be coming to an end as we know it with Obama in power. The whole purpose of the NFA is to track and control restricted weapons, so that if it's ever deemed necessary they can all be rounded up and destroyed. Effectively it's designed so they can say, "Look, we tried this, it isn't working. Turn them in."

You could no more than get your NFA weapon, after having paid a LOT of money for it, and be ordered to surrender it.

kurtmax
November 30, 2008, 05:36 PM
Except that it's a tax stamp. A tax that you already paid. The legislature would have to pass a bill either adding more taxes or making NFA firearms illegal to possess.

The ATF can't just 'recall' all the NFA firearms...

TexasRifleman
November 30, 2008, 05:43 PM
I would wait. Because I suspect ownership of NFA weapons might be coming to an end as we know it with Obama in power. The whole purpose of the NFA is to track and control restricted weapons, so that if it's ever deemed necessary they can all be rounded up and destroyed. Effectively it's designed so they can say, "Look, we tried this, it isn't working. Turn them in."

That makes very little sense frankly. Even during all the previous bans and proposed bans there has never been any talk or attempt to remove the NFA or change it in any way.

This kind of thing does not get attention and attention is all the anti crown wants.

NFA as it exists today, in it's neutered form, is likely in very little danger.

As mentioned, these are tax laws and much more difficult to mess with. NFA is niche stuff, it doesn't get any attention.

30mag
December 1, 2008, 03:25 PM
Umm.. I don't really know what I want..
I think an automatic something would be cool. Awfully expensive though, right? Maybe a SBS.


What do you have to do to obtain a title II weapon?
Transfer tax and register? I thought there was something more.

Talk to me more about a form 1.

waterhouse
December 1, 2008, 03:41 PM
Talk to me more about a form 1.

A Form 1 is an application to "make" and register a firearm. Typically, you use it to "make" a SBR or SBS.

You could go into most gun stores, buy a rifle or shotgun, and bring it home. Then you would fill out the Form 1, pay a $200 tax, either form a trust or get a CLEO sign off, get your fingerprints and photo done (not necessary with the Trust route), and mail it all to the ATF. It sounds like a lot of work, but really it is just filling out paperwork and waiting.

When they send your paperwork back to you, you can then proceed to "make" you SBS or SBR, by putting a shorter barrel on it. You'll probably need to engrave your name and hometown on the gun as well, since you've technically "made" a new gun, although this gets debated a lot.

30mag
December 1, 2008, 08:14 PM
So, how would I go about buying a NFA firearm from the factory?

kingpin008
December 1, 2008, 08:36 PM
You can't. Unless you're LEO or military, there haven't been any new NFA weapons (full-auto, that is) available since 1986.

That said, you can buy new suppressors (silencers) and factory-new SBS's (serbu super-shorty, for example) and SBR's.

And for those (suppressors, factory-new SBS's & SBR's) you'd still need to fill out the proper forms, pay the requisite fees, and enlist the services of a FFL capable of handling Class III/Title II transfers.

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 08:41 PM
impactguns has some NFA transferrables available - provided you go through the proper procedures. Expect to pay $$$$$$ for it though.

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 08:56 PM
also - it's worth mentioning that it largely depends on where you live, and whether or not you can get someone of authority to sign off for you. I believe you have to have sign-off from a Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) stating that you have no known outstanding warrants, and there is no standing legal reason as to why you could not own one. Whether or not they choose to sign is entirely up to them. They are under no obligation to do so, even if there is no legal prohibition against your ownership in your state.

PTK
December 1, 2008, 09:05 PM
Which is where the Trust comes into play.

30mag
December 1, 2008, 10:31 PM
Well, I live in a small rural town in Texas.

No new civvy autos since 1984? So, does this mean there will forever be a dwindling supply of automatics in the civilian market?

I kinda want an auto...
But, I think an SBS would be more useful... like a coach gun...

30mag
December 1, 2008, 10:32 PM
Wow.. that automatic thing kind of disturbs me...
Outlawing the manufacture of firearms isn't really a violation of the second amendment.
That REALLY bothers me.

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 10:33 PM
30mag - how's about somethin like this?

http://www.impactguns.com/store/SER-SS12.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/ser_shorty_big.jpg

Sinixstar
December 1, 2008, 10:36 PM
Wow.. that automatic thing kind of disturbs me...
Outlawing the manufacture of firearms isn't really a violation of the second amendment.
That REALLY bothers me.


It doesn't outlaw the manufacture of new full autos.
It outlaws the transfer of full autos that were registered after May 19th 1986.

rabidgoldfish
December 3, 2008, 12:55 AM
Am I understanding this correctly? I'm 20 (21 this coming august). Can I go submit a form 1 to build a silencer or SBR/S right now? What about transferring a silencer from either a dealer or individual?

Ranb
December 3, 2008, 10:41 AM
You can submit an ATF form 1 as long as you are 18 or older. I think dealers are not allowed to transfer to anyone under 21. Submit now, build later. :) Take a look at http://www.subguns.com and http://www,silencertalk.com for more information. You can download ATF forms from http://www.titleii.com

Ranb

30mag
December 3, 2008, 11:09 AM
Ok, I don't understand about the full auto thing.. what is the deal with 1986?

30mag
December 3, 2008, 11:15 AM
Is there any way I could get a brand-new machine gun?
Without being the US government or a LEO.... of course.
What about conversions to full auto? Is it completely illegal?

waterhouse
December 3, 2008, 12:03 PM
Is there any way I could get a brand-new machine gun?
Without being the US government or a LEO.... of course.

Not if you want to stay in the US.

What about conversions to full auto? Is it completely illegal?

Yes. It gets confusing, but Yes. If you buy a registered sear, that part is considered a registered machine gun. They are very expensive. You could then use that registered sear to "convert" a semi into an auto. Since they haven't been able to make registered sears for the general public since 1986, there is a limited supply, and they cost many thousands of dollars.

Ranb
December 3, 2008, 12:13 PM
Here is a little lesson on gun law, but it is only worth the paper it is printed (figuratively) on. In 1934 the National Firearms Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act was passed. It regulated machine guns, short barreled rifles/shotguns, silencers, destructive devices and gadget guns (Any of Weapon ie, AOW). It required that all of these guns be registered and a $200 ($5 for AOWís when transferred) be paid when transferred or made by unlicensed civilians. It also required your sheriff sign the forms unless a trust was used to own it.

The Firearms Owner Protection Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act provided for certain protections for gun owners, but also had the Hughes Amendment tacked onto it. This amendment banned the civilian ownership or transfer of any fully-automatic weapon which was not registered by May 19, 1986.

The only way for you to legally own a new machine gun is to get an FFL and pay the Special Occupational Tax (SOT), class 1 to import, class 2 to manufacture, class 3 to deal. The SOT class of tax is one reason why people call machine guns and other weapons controlled by the NFA class 2 or class 3 weapons. Other people call them title ii (2) weapons because this is the name of the paragraph in the law that controls them. FFL/SOTís do not pay the $200 transfer tax when shipping between each other or when they make an NFA weapon. But it is their business that owns the weapons, not the person who is licensed. The SOT is a minimum of $500 a year. The FFL is $200 for three years. Hope this helps.

Ranb

DirtyDUSN
December 3, 2008, 12:45 PM
Wow I just stumbled across this...So I'm almost 20 years old, I can buy assault weapons, rifles, shotguns, fully automatic weapons(If I read correctly), and I can give my life for my country, but I can't legally buy a handgun or alcohol yet. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2008, 01:15 PM
No new civvy autos since 1984? So, does this mean there will forever be a dwindling supply of automatics in the civilian market?

Yes that's exactly what it means, a supply that will never increase, only decrease due to breakage etc.

That was the whole point of Hughes, to eventually make MG's just go away.

garymc
December 4, 2008, 01:07 PM
The dwindling supply of full auto or select fire guns is the basis for most of the cost. Guns that would sell new for $1500 or $2000 are in the $20,000 to $30,000 range. I think the cheapest transferable mg I've seen in recent years was $17,000. But if you're the least bit picky about the kind of gun, expect to pay more. If my numbers are off, somebody correct me. But I just thought it would be helpful to say something more precise than $$$$ or "lots of money."

MGshaggy
December 4, 2008, 01:50 PM
If my numbers are off, somebody correct me. But I just thought it would be helpful to say something more precise than $$$$ or "lots of money."

Like anything, it really depends on the make/model and condition. An SWD M11 (9mm MAC type SMG) can be had for about $3000 to $3500. An M16 can range from $9k for a non-Colt like an EA or a Sendra, to $20k or more for a rare model Colt. Beltguns can go anywhere from about $14k for a non-C&R 1919 to $300k for a transferable minigun.

black_z
December 4, 2008, 05:01 PM
What if you already own the illegal item, but want to make it legal? How would you go about that?

black_z
December 4, 2008, 05:09 PM
No idea why it says I'm a guest, either? :(

MGshaggy
December 4, 2008, 05:21 PM
What if you already own the illegal item, but want to make it legal? How would you go about that?

You can't; its contraband and cannot now be legally registered. To be legal the manufacturer should have registered it and paid the making tax at the time it was manufactured.

kingpin008
December 4, 2008, 05:21 PM
What if you already own the illegal item, but want to make it legal? How would you go about that?

You wouldn't. If it wasn't registered in '86 when the window was closed for new full-autos to be imported to/made in the US, it's contraband. Either you dispose of it and never tell anyone you owned it in the first place, or in the case of a war bring-back that you found in attic or something, you might try to hire a lawyer and donate it to a museum or similar organization.

In short, there is no way to "make it legal". It's either already a legally-registered NFA item, or contraband.

UnTainted
December 4, 2008, 08:36 PM
Just get an awesome 9mm or .45 pistol of your selection ( I like sig ) and put a threaded barrel and a suppressor on it.

I find that might be a far more effective weapon against BGs than a sub fully auto.

TexasRifleman
December 4, 2008, 08:57 PM
What if you already own the illegal item, but want to make it legal? How would you go about that?

You would go to prison for owning it. End of story.

No amnesty, no grace period, nothing. Straight to the hole.

Which is ridiculous because as the WWII generation dies off they are likely leaving behind who knows what kind of historic firearms.

Last year a guy found, from all I could tell from the photos, a genuine STG44 hidden in a wall in his grandfathers house. His grandad had recently passed and had told stories of "some old German gun" he brought back.

Priceless history, irreplaceable, but a felony and worthless. Nice laws huh? Way to honor the vets. Thanks NRA.


Don't get me started........

ServiceSoon
December 4, 2008, 09:02 PM
The problem with so called "amnesty" is you admit to owning the weapons, then if the gov decides you shouldn't have those weapons they know you have them and take them away. See how that works?

black_z
December 5, 2008, 12:12 AM
This question was hypothetical. :) I swear I don't own anything illegal. :)

kingpin008
December 5, 2008, 12:27 AM
And even if you did, it was recently lost in a tragic boating accident, right? :D:D

TexasRifleman
December 5, 2008, 09:55 AM
The problem with so called "amnesty" is you admit to owning the weapons, then if the gov decides you shouldn't have those weapons they know you have them and take them away. See how that works?

As opposed to having guns that you can't do anything with but hide for fear of a life in prison?

That's the alternative? I think I'd rather see an amnesty.

Art Eatman
December 5, 2008, 11:04 AM
The BATFE regs are stickied at the top of the Legal Forum page.

madmike
December 5, 2008, 11:29 AM
Could such old trophies be transferred to an SOT? At least they'd still exist.

Yeah, I was 19 when FOPA passed, or I would have been buying FA AR receivers every @#$ing month:cuss:

kingpin008
December 5, 2008, 11:36 AM
Could such old trophies be transferred to an SOT? At least they'd still exist.

Nope. As stated earlier, if it wasn't registered at the beginning of the '86 regulations, it's contraband. As far as the ATF is concerned that means turn 'em in or face the consequences.

MGshaggy
December 5, 2008, 11:48 AM
The problem with so called "amnesty" is you admit to owning the weapons, then if the gov decides you shouldn't have those weapons they know you have them and take them away. See how that works?

I wouldn't worry. The whole premise of an amnesty is to bring formerly illegal weapons into compliance with the law and allow them to be registered and legally possessed. I've got one NFA gun which was registered in the '68 amnesty. 40 years later its all mine and no less legal for me to possess than a piece of lawn furniture.

30mag
December 6, 2008, 08:43 PM
Yes, it's definitely screwed up... and you forgot to mention voting.

30mag
December 8, 2008, 02:32 AM
Well..
I think that it's outrageous that even sears are that expensive...
So, what's the big deal with machine guns anyways?
Hasn't there practically never (like two) been any legally owned machine guns used in committing a crime?

ServiceSoon
December 8, 2008, 01:33 PM
As opposed to having guns that you can't do anything with but hide for fear of a life in prison?

That's the alternative? I think I'd rather see an amnesty.I was just trying to show everybody how amnesty could be used as a confiscation tool. It's the cynic in me. I'm not advocating breaking the law.

Yes that's exactly what it means, a supply that will never increase, only decrease due to breakage etc.

That was the whole point of Hughes, to eventually make MG's just go away.
Can't broken MG's just be repaired?

madmike
December 9, 2008, 01:09 AM
AFAIK, you CAN have NFA weapons repaired, to include mfr replacement of a damaged receiver with another bearing the same number, as long as the original is destroyed. Sarah B was screeching about it some time back.

MGshaggy
December 9, 2008, 11:23 AM
to include mfr replacement of a damaged receiver with another bearing the same number, as long as the original is destroyed

Not true, at least WRT MGs. Receivers/registered parts of other types of NFA weapons may be 're-manufactured' though.

madmike
December 10, 2008, 01:14 AM
Yeah, that's what I meant--a damaged one can be remanufactured. In the process, the damaged one must be destroyed--can't use it to create another one.

kingpin008
December 10, 2008, 02:24 AM
Madmike - what he's saying, is that non-MG NFA weapons (sbs's, sbr's, aow's, suppressors, etc) can be remanufactured in case of damage, but MG's (machine guns) cannot.

Kind of Blued
December 10, 2008, 06:27 AM
I think the cheapest transferable mg I've seen in recent years was $17,000. But if you're the least bit picky about the kind of gun, expect to pay more. If my numbers are off, somebody correct me.

Some Mac-10s go for $4-5K, and Sten guns and Sterlings can go for $6K.

It's still absurd, especially considering that one could manufacture a Sten gun in a couple hours for $30-40 if it were legal to do so.

Specifically, anything relating to laws against machine guns is probably the thing I am most ashamed about as an American, because it's the most blatant example that the Bill of Rights isn't truly respected.

PTK
December 10, 2008, 07:03 AM
It's still absurd, especially considering that one could manufacture a Sten gun in a couple hours for $30-40 if it were legal to do so.

Yes, yes you can, though I'd say about 8 hours and closer to $100 nowadays.


Regarding the rebuilding of NFA items, anything but MGs you MUST pay the $200 tax again - and MGs can't be rebuilt anymore.

kurtmax
December 10, 2008, 11:51 AM
Wow I just stumbled across this...So I'm almost 20 years old, I can buy assault weapons, rifles, shotguns, fully automatic weapons(If I read correctly), and I can give my life for my country, but I can't legally buy a handgun or alcohol yet. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

Yes you can buy a handgun (In most states). I even have a concealed carry permit and I'm not yet 21...

TEDDY
December 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
for those young ones.the 1934 law was put on the books during prohibition
because of the use of them in crime.you could go into most hardware stores
and buy one for $50.a lot of people and police were killed at that time.the AG at the time said congress could not ban them,but could under the comerce law tax them.$200 was a lot of money then.until 1986 if you found one you could go to the internal revenue office and pay the $200 and they would register it for you.and you could take it out and shoot it.after 1968 when the ATF got control it got harder and more REGULATIONS were inposed.
Take my advice stay away from them and short barreled stuff.minite you get one you come under the ATF scrutney.and you are registered with them.it aint "cool"its a PITA.

MGshaggy
December 10, 2008, 05:57 PM
Take my advice stay away from them and short barreled stuff.minite you get one you come under the ATF scrutney.and you are registered with them.it aint "cool"its a PITA.

:rolleyes:

Horse manure. Its fairly easy if you can read, write, follow simple directions, and you aren't a prohibited person. You do not give up any rights by owning an NFA weapon, and BATFE cannot come and demand to inspect the weapon or your home without a warrant. PITA? Not really. I currently own over a dozen MGs, a few silencers, and two SBRs. The process is easy, but the wait on paperwork approvals can take 2-3 months (not always the case though), and MGs are not cheap compared to their semi-auto counterparts. They are, however, tremendously fun - nothing quite like blazing away with a beltfed at an old car loaded with tannerite.

kurtmax
December 10, 2008, 07:25 PM
nothing quite like blazing away with a beltfed at an old car loaded with tannerite.

I could probably come close by setting a few bushels of 100 dollar bills on fire! :neener:

crushbup
December 10, 2008, 09:40 PM
Yes, yes you can, though I'd say about 8 hours and closer to $100 nowadays.

Actually, rebuilding a Sten is rather difficult, placement of the magwell and ejector are absolutely crucial. If you incorrectly place that one little part, you have a paperweight. Without having the automation the original factories had, it's a lot of measuring and would probably take quite a while (more than a few hours) without a milling machine to get a properly functioning firearm.

ETA: At no time have I attempted to rebuild an MG, I only know this from the reduced ID receiver semi-auto builds.

realtired
December 11, 2008, 12:02 AM
Elizabeth Dole.

30mag
December 13, 2008, 03:35 AM
Ok, so, what sort of Title II weapon do you think would be most useful?

PTK
December 13, 2008, 06:35 AM
Take my advice stay away from them and short barreled stuff.minite you get one you come under the ATF scrutney.and you are registered with them.it aint "cool"its a PITA.

I've owned NFA items since I was 19, no problems yet, no inspections yet, etc. Do you actually OWN an NFA item, or are you parroting back what you've heard from buddies? ;)

crushbup

I disagree - from scratch in a proper shop (even just a lathe, a mill, a grinder, and a welder), a from scratch open bolt SMG can be built for $100 in under 8 hours. Rebuilding a STEN from a parts kit is an under 2 hour operation, guaranteed. Include the whole 8 hours and a proper silencer could be made for one, as well. Guns are nowhere near as difficult to make as you'd think, and open bolt SMGs are the easiest of all to build.

Obvious note: I have not, nor will I ever, built an illegal NFA item. I simply have loads of machining experience. :)

30mag

Silencers are the most useful, in my opinion.

Ranb
December 13, 2008, 12:03 PM
I'd like to jump in and say it is very easy to learn how to operate a lathe and make a decent silencer. With silencers running $400 and up even for the aluminum 22 caliber ones, it does not take long to get back into the black if you spend $2000 on a lathe and some other tools. I learned how to operate a lathe by making a form 1 silencer for my 300 whisper. The first baffle I made took me three hours of toil, but each baffle after that took less than an hour. I'm sure some people here will think I am very slow on the lathe also. :)

It kills me when someone tries to talk a person out of owning title 2 weapons because "the ATF will come knocking, you're on a list" or other crap. If you are against owning title 2 weapons, then you are entitled to your opinion, but do not lie to promote your position on gun control. Gun owners are their own worst enemy and we certainly do not need people like Brady and Waxman trying to take away our rights when some of us seem perfectly willing to screw ourselves over.

Ranb

MadAsHeck
December 14, 2008, 04:06 AM
I see a lot of posts on various forums on the net stating it is possible to make a machine gun legally but that really isn't the case is it? According to what I have read here you can make a machine gun so long as you are making it for the Military or other government/law enforcement agency. (And, as long as you abide by all the rules.) Like they need anymore firepower!

If our founding fathers had the idea in mind that citizens needed to have the right to defend themselves from an oppressive government, then should not the citizen have the right to make, own, posses a firearm of equal make and model to what the current soldier/infantry man might use against us if the government became corrupt and oppressive, i.e. a machine gun? These laws are so flawed and unconstitutional. If you read all of the NFA it says you can make a machine gun with proper approval but then further down says that you can't unless making it for LEO's or military. What's up with that.

It also seems to me that due to the supply and demand for pre 86 MG's being what they are, therefore driving the costs sky high, that the government has in effect created what I would liken to Jim Crow laws for guns. There was a time when blacks and poor whites were disenfranchised from voting and from other activities through poll taxes, literacy and comprehension tests, and residency and record-keeping requirements. Only the wealthy, literate people in effect had "the right" to participate. With the current laws, the government has basically made the legal possession of machine guns nearly impossible for "common folk" due to the high costs of ownership. Someone should challenge these laws by arguing the above and by arguing that if one can legally possess a machine made before 1986 (with the proper, extensive paperwork) that there would be no more harm done by someone going through the same process for a newer, better manufactured, safer, current designed MG. Am I wrong here? Can I get an Amen from somebody?

Ranb
December 14, 2008, 12:51 PM
Amen except for the first paragraph. Civilians make machine guns for the government, they are the ones who do much of the research. When an FFL/SOT class makes machine guns, they are not all required to be transferred to the military or other government agency. The business can keep the guns they make for research or transfer it to another dealer or manufacturer. Even in WA state where machine guns for civilians are contraband, an SOT can bring a machine gun to the local rifle range to op check it.

But yeah, it is all still a bunch of BS.

Ranb

Sh1zn0
December 26, 2008, 10:29 PM
12 days late for this conversation but here we go.

When I mentioned buying a new gun my roommate says that his friend has a license to buy and sell guns because he is opening a shop soon. He said his friend told him he can get him a full auto G3. Here in Kansas I know they recently(as of July 2008) passed a law allowing any Class 3 weapons.
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2008/04/kansas-ks-what-nfa-firearms-ca.html
In Kansas (after July 1, 2008) you can own the following items that are regulated the the National Firearms Act

Machine Guns
Any Other Weapon (AOW)
Destructive Devices (DD)
Silencers
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)

In Kansas you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.

NONE


Does that still just mean the machine guns only applies to the pre86 rule and just allows you to own them here or does it mean you can actually import them to here. He did however tell my friend something about unless he wanted to pay like 3 times as much a couple parts had to be american made, if that changes anything.

Curious cause I wanted a SBR P90 but the only Short Barreled ones are full auto from what I found cept for using a gunsmith. <- That came off as me saying oh well I might as well get a full auto which isn't the case. If I can get a SBR and Full auto then sweet if not, does anyone know a way to get a Short PS90 or do I need a gunsmith to do it

jcjacobvt
December 26, 2008, 11:08 PM
When I mentioned buying a new gun my roommate says that his friend has a license to buy and sell guns because he is opening a shop soon. He said his friend told him he can get him a full auto G3.

Does that still just mean the machine guns only applies to the pre86 rule and just allows you to own them here or does it mean you can actually import them to here. He did however tell my friend something about unless he wanted to pay like 3 times as much a couple parts had to be american made, if that changes anything.



I think you need to read a lot more about the current laws on NFA Title 2 firearms. Having a FFL is only for Title 1 firearms (reguler pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns). If that FFL also pays for a SOT then he can deal in Title 2 firearms (MGs. SBR, SBS, DD, AOW, and silencers). G3 registered receivers are currently about $12,000. and H&K Sears are more then that. NFA Title 2 firearms has nothing to do with the american made parts count. American made parts count has to do with a Title 1 firearm import ban on foreign firearms, I believe 1989. No machine guns can be imported for public/private
sale for us normal folk. LE can still get them and a G3 for LE is still only about $750. which is all they are really worth. How sad for us again.....

rabidgoldfish
December 27, 2008, 02:18 AM
I've got another question about filling out a Form 1. Supposing I submit as a corporation, what exactly do I have to fill out?

Is item 7 even required? If so do I fill it out for myself and attach an explanation for 7.d? Ie: I am not required to check yes for this item on a separate sheet?

shotgunjoel
December 27, 2008, 02:49 AM
That's funny you say that about the Sten, I've wondered about that forever. That is horrible about all of these ww2 mgs, not to be critical but all those vets had to do was register their guns when the laws going through.

yokel
December 27, 2008, 08:07 PM
With the current laws, the government has basically made the legal possession of machine guns nearly impossible for "common folk" due to the high costs of ownership. Someone should challenge these laws by arguing the above and by arguing that if one can legally possess a machine made before 1986 (with the proper, extensive paperwork) that there would be no more harm done by someone going through the same process for a newer, better manufactured, safer, current designed MG. Am I wrong here? Can I get an Amen from somebody?

We should pray that we at least get to hold on to that semi auto knockoff of an M16 or AK47.

All those who truly believe that their government will ever abide the proliferation of private full auto or select fire ownership in this day and age are living in the Land of Oz.

Any armament upgrade package that substantially improves the firepower and lethality of the people is just not in the cards.

PTK
December 27, 2008, 08:17 PM
Curious cause I wanted a SBR P90 but the only Short Barreled ones are full auto from what I found cept for using a gunsmith. <- That came off as me saying oh well I might as well get a full auto which isn't the case. If I can get a SBR and Full auto then sweet if not, does anyone know a way to get a Short PS90 or do I need a gunsmith to do it

Civilian legal PS90s can either be with the long barrel, as an ordinary rifle, OR as a SBR. P90s (the FA PS90) are not legal for civilians. Expect to put $2k into a PS90 SBR.

Gunnerpalace
December 27, 2008, 08:19 PM
All those who truly believe that their government will ever abide the proliferation of private full auto or select fire ownership in this day and age are living in the Land of Oz.

Dont bet on it.

There is a case in the works.

Macmac
December 27, 2008, 08:47 PM
30mag, I got a little curious and found this page, which may or not be of interest to you. I think it may though.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi

yokel
December 27, 2008, 09:14 PM
Dont bet on it.

There is a case in the works.

I'm not overly sanguine in view of the fact that the overturning of a ban on measly handguns just squeaked by in the Heller case.

NFA and FOPA certainly could be ruled constitutional by any ideologue leftist judge with a documented history of bending the rules to obtain the leftist result.

Of course, all those noisome regulations and restrictions improve our ability to protect and promote public health and safety.

No, itís not going over well at all ó among people with intellectual integrity, that is. (Those lacking integrity are, naturally, thrilled.)

Gunnerpalace
December 28, 2008, 04:02 PM
I don't think it really has anything to do with Heller,

It deals with the artificially inflated prices.

yokel
December 28, 2008, 04:36 PM
Although the deck is stacked against us and a powerful unelected voting block is allowed to persist unchecked, it's our duty to keep trying.

LordJim
December 28, 2008, 07:22 PM
G3 registered receivers are currently about $12,000. and H&K Sears are more then that.

I saw one going for close to $19,000.00 a few weeks ago. NINETEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS for a sear. If that's not a crime I don't know what is. :(

-
Jim

30mag
January 4, 2009, 01:06 AM
Well, I'm worried now about outlawing the ownership of firearms, and the law about 1986 machine guns gives power to the rich, and the government, and that ticks me off.

30mag
January 4, 2009, 01:08 AM
Oh yeah, and I still want a Title II firearms.
Real bad.

MadAsHeck
January 14, 2009, 01:49 AM
Send Bush a letter, email, phone call, etc. Maybe if he had enough people calling and bugging him in his last few days in office he could issue some sort of presidential edict to overturn the 1986 Ban to p.o. Obama? Just a thought.
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TexasRifleman
January 14, 2009, 12:13 PM
Send Bush a letter, email, phone call, etc. Maybe if he had enough people calling and bugging him in his last few days in office he could issue some sort of presidential edict to overturn the 1986 Ban to p.o. Obama? Just a thought.

The way I understand it Executive Orders can't undo laws passed by Congress.

Hughes Amendment is the law in this case.

ServiceSoon
January 14, 2009, 12:46 PM
What makes you thinkg Bush would do something like that? Do you know how fast Obama and company would change that law back?

TexasRifleman
January 14, 2009, 12:50 PM
Do you know how fast Obama and company would change that law back?

This is actually an interesting question.

It's been tradition, for the most part, for incoming Presidents not to undo the EO's from their predecessors.

Will be interesting to see if Obama does that.

Not that Bush put any particularly golden EO's in place anyway.

MadAsHeck
January 14, 2009, 12:57 PM
Yes, thankfully there are checks and balances in our system to limit executive powers. It was a pipe dream I was having (figuratively speaking). I know the president could not do anything with the current law as it stands, nor would he. I think Bush said in the past that he would sign into law the renewal of the Clinton gun ban if congress passed it. I think Bush could have been a much stronger force than he was with regards to gun rights. He could have used the bully-pulpit for some of these issues more effectively though. It is my opinion that we need a good revamping of the conservative party. Stick to good old fashion conservative policies and values =win elections. Move to the center= lose elections. Not trying to start a political argument though. I hope and pray for the best with our new president and as an American I will continue to obey and uphold all the laws.
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My Guns and My Religion (http://mygunsandmyreligion.blogspot.com/)
(Commentaries on life as a Christian, conservative, intellectual American)

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