[tiberius]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030919-105619-9614r.htm

Scary stuff.

It appears that the Islamic Chaplain down in Gitmo my be a spy. First we had the Islamic guy in Kuwait that fragged his officers in the opening stages of Operation Iraqi Freedom, now this. I just wonder how deeply infiltrated we are by these guys?

[Mark Tyson]

Oh wonderful. More traitors within our walls. I'm waiting for the accusations of "profiling" to begin. Islam in general needs a reformation. That's all I'm gonna say.

Edited to add: I spoke to hastily. We don't know who he was spying for - it could have been the Israelis for all we know.

[agricola]

how on earth did he pass the security screening on return from Syria?

[Zip06]

How interesting. Wonder how long the Court Martial will take? Maybe they can borrow some combat vets from Iraq from the 101st to sit on the panel? or will this be Federal charges? Do they have an Islamic religous facility at Leavenworth? Another one to put on veggies.

[hillbilly]

Also note, the "alleged spy" is ethnically Chinese.

American citizen, ethnically Chinese, converts to Islam.

Yee doesn't look like John Walker Lindh doesn't look like Jose Padilla doesn't look like Rich Reid doesnt look like Aby Sayef members from the Philippines don't look like Jemah Islamiyah members from Bali don't look like Taliban members from Afghanistan don't look like Arabic Al Quaeda members don't look like Chechens........

You can't always tell by just looking.

hillbilly

[tiberius]

Its not his ethnicity that's a problem. He is a Chaplain so it was known that he was a Muslim.

Its funny how back during the cold war if anyone was an avowed communist, they would never be given a security clearance or access to prisoners because they were members of an organization dedicated to the destruction of our way of life. But now we won’t take similar precautions against people who are members of other organizations dedicated to the destruction of our way of life.

As an American I support their right to be Muslims (as I support their right to be communists), but I wonder……. Were we wrong before to be wary of communists or are we wrong now to NOT be wary of Muslims?

[Quartus]

Oh. Wow. Now there's a great big hairy surprise.



Not.

[Baba Louie]

Strip him of his citizenship, isolate him on US ships of war at sea constantly, surrounded by American Sailors and Marines, until he dies an old man. (he says remembering some story from his childhood)

Alone.

Forever.

He can then join the ranks of Islamic Martyrs and have his 72 virgins.

Trace his entire time spent in Syria, his wife's family (he could have been compromised via threats to her family), etc.

He is a traitor. Pure and simple.

Duty, Honor, Country.

He turned these words into lies based on a religious philosophy. Or perhaps he feels that God, Honor and Courage are the proper watchwords of the day, as he obviously headed down that road based on someone's advice(?). He can take comfort in his belief.

Adios

[Standing Wolf]

We don't know who he was spying for - it could have been the Israelis for all we know.

Might snow next Independence Day in Phoenix, too.

[Derek Zeanah]

But now we won’t take similar precautions against people who are members of other organizations dedicated to the destruction of our way of life.

As an American I support their right to be Muslims (as I support their right to be communists), but I wonder……. Were we wrong before to be wary of communists or are we wrong now to NOT be wary of Muslims?You do know there are muslims here on the board, right? You also know that the majority of muslims worldwide aren't the radicals you're referring to?

Would it seem a little inaccurate to describe all of christianity by the beliefs of Jehova's Witnesses? How about Catholics -- can we assume based on experience with catholicism that all christians pray to the virgin mary?

:banghead:

[Quartus]

Derek, I can appreciate your postion on an intellectual level. (No, I won't pretend to understand what you're going through - ain't been there done that!) It bothers me, too, as I have good friends who are Muslims.


But it seems to me we have a problem here. We KNOW that there are Muslims that want to destroy the U.S. I hope nobody is going to argue that point!

We also know that there are many in this country who are either out and out terrorist sleepers, or are sympathetic to them and will help them finanacially or with information, even if they won't set off bombs (or whatever) themselves.

So the problem is this:

How do we know the difference? We can't just wait for the bad ones to act, and then say, "Well, now we know he was one of the bad ones." That act may cost thousands, or even millions, of lives.

So how do we protect ourselves while still being fair to the non-violent Muslims?

[Giant]

"Its funny how back during the cold war if anyone was an avowed communist, they would never be given a security clearance or access to prisoners because they were members of an organization dedicated to the destruction of our way of life. But now we won’t take similar precautions against people who are members of other organizations dedicated to the destruction of our way of life."

How true! Used to be people who wanted to destroy our form of government were denied a security clearance and or invited to leave our country by the FBI. Now they become members of state legislatures or become members of congress.

Giant

[C.R.Sam]

A few other possibilities here other than the obvious.

Wonder if we will ever get the straight scoop on this one.

Sam

[Waitone]

This one smells.

I suspect at a minimum the US intel types were all over this guy like a cheap suit. From what I read it is evident he wasn't all that subtle in his actions or travels. So why does the US come up all of a sudden with full blown and really serious charges against the guy?

I suspect he was trailed from day one at a minimum. Alternatively he is a double agent.

Can't put my finger on it but this story just don't seem right? Someting else is crawling around the woodpile.

[Lone_Gunman]

The other side thinks this is a Holy War; whether we want to acknowledge it or not does not change the reality.

Until we acknowledge this idea, though,I think it is unwinnable. As Americans we don't think like other people. The idea of fighting a religious war is undesireable to most Americans. But fighting a religious war is what the other side seems to want to do.

Sorry, but I am not as open minded as I should be I guess, but if I think it is just plain stupid not to at least view Islam with suspicion, seeing as how all our enemies seem to be Islamic.

This is not a discriminatory viewpoint, as I would apply to any group of people who would do us harm.

If a group of red headed Irish men named O'Riley had knocked down the WTC, I wouldn't like the Irish too much right now, either.

[Preacherman]

Folks, please remember that the RELIGION of Islam is NOT a threat to us - it's the warped, twisted version of Islam espoused by bin Laden and others like him that is the threat. The same could be said of Christianity - the religion isn't the problem, but when you get warped, twisted fundamentalist approaches to the religion, problems ensue. Also Judaism - the religion is fine, but terrorism has been committed in its name (e.g. the Stern Gang, the more recent attempts by JDL members to bomb a mosque in California, etc.).

If this thread stays on topic about this specific chaplain (who, by the way, is innocent until proven guilty - please remember that), I'll leave it open. If it degenerates into a slanging match about religions, it'll be closed instanter.

[Baba Louie]

The Jihad against the "Great Satan" declared by bin Laden does not represent ALL of the believers of Islam in the world... darned few actually.

Palestinians who oppose anything US/Israel, Al-Q's, maybe some few wealthy Saudi's who don't like our presence or the actions of the Royal family and a few of the Iranian radicals make up the "Host" of the rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth (there's some non-loaded words for ya) America-must-die real enemies.

I don't believe it's your everyday, "go to work to pay the bills" kinda mid-eastern citizen/subject Islamic... I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Having said that, those that ARE against us must be kept busy over there as opposed to over here. Those that cheered in the streets on Sept 11, 01 bear watching. I do believe that those few who planned or participated in ANY of the attacks on US/Allied interests in the past 10 years must (and will) pay a great price, including martyrdom.

Still and all, I wonder about this Chaplain Yee and if the real story will ever see the light of day, or if he's goint to be kept incommunicado indefinitely ??? an "enemy combatant".

Time will tell... maybe

Adios

[Lone_Gunman]

Preacherman,

I apologize if my post broadened the debate, and I dont mean to disparage Islam in general, and agree that this is a fringe element causing the problems.

One very worrisome thing that the Chaplain's case points out quite clearly is that our government and military are unable to seperate the fringe elements from mainstream Islam. They thought this guy was OK.

Also makes me wonder whether or not he was radical to begin with, or whether his contact with the detainee's radicalized him?

[Sven]

More info:

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/3042.htm

"Yee, a West Point graduate, was carrying sketches and diagrams of the prison, according to Sunday's New York Times.

He also had a list of detainees, CNN reported."

[tiberius]

Would it seem a little inaccurate to describe all of christianity by the beliefs of Jehova's Witnesses? How about Catholics -- can we assume based on experience with catholicism that all christians pray to the virgin mary?

I don't care who anyone prays to. I just don't want to live under the Kalifah and pay Jizyah becasue I am Kaffir

[greyhound]

First we had the Islamic guy in Kuwait that fragged his officers

Sorry to sidetrack, buts its related.

Why the heck hasn't the great public uproar been made of the Assan Akbar/Mark Cools case?

His (alleged) crimes are 10 times worse than "American Taliban" Lindh from 11/01, yet the Akbar case disappeared from the press in 2 days.

Everyone was calling for Lindh to be publicly hung, yet if one brings up Assan/Cools all you will hear is the "chirp, chirp" of the crickets.

Is the public mood/anger over 9/11 so far forgotten 2 years later?

I predict the same indifference to the Muslim cleric spying.

I also agree that we must judge people as individuals, and please not paint all of the Islamic people and culture with the same brush, but we must also be able to ignore PC and admit that there is a minority out there that wants Sharia law in the US, and deal with it accordingly.

Our fight is not with the religion of Islam, but those who will twist it (as indeed all religion may unfortunately be twisted) to justify their own largely political views.

[C.R.Sam]

Waitone and I are on the same page with this.

Might be several layers on this cake.

Sam

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I think it's fishy that this guy graduates from West Point, resigns his commission, travels to Syria, studies and marries, retuns to the US and re-ups to serve another hitch. Isn't it interesting he was at the same base that another Muslim soldier from Washington State was at who has been in the news?

I'd like to think that we had a tail on him from the start, but who knows. I'm going through the full background check right now for my new job and I know the fes are poking around my past for at least the past 30 years. How thorough was S2 with this guy?

And remember kids, religious war is like two children fighting about who has the strongest imaginary friend.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Lone_Gunman]

And remember kids, religious war is like two children fighting about who has the strongest imaginary friend.


Not exactly. Kids fighting usually end up with bloody noses. We ended up with several collapsed buildings and a few thousand dead innocent people.
That sounds like a damn good reason to fight a war to me; the other side is who decided to make it a religious war, not us.

Your quote is just as inflammatory to both sides of the religious war as any other religious slur, despite the fact that it is shrouded in analogy and secularism.

I am sure, Sylvilagus, you wouldnt like someone telling you that you are going to hell because you dont believe in God, Allah, or whoever. But you dont mind dishing out inflammatory comments. Comments like that are part of the reason the islamic fundamentalists hate the West.

Maybe I am overly sensitive, and if I am incorrect in my assessment of your remark, please do correct me and explain exactly what you mean.

[Mark Tyson]

Comments like that are part of the reason the islamic fundamentalists hate the West.

It's the intolerance of these fanatics in the face of modernity to blame for these attacks. Islamic fundamentalists hate the west because we can and do make whatever inflammatory comments we damn well please here. At the same time they are inrigued and envious of the West. They hear comments denigrating their religion; this justifies in their minds deliberate, indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. There is a serious problem here indeed, but it ain't on our side. You are not gonig to reason with someone who has such a medieval sense of morality.

We need a holy war of our own, a secular holy war. Religious fanaticism and politics do not mix.

[Lone_Gunman]

a secular holy war


Now there's an oxymoron.

Could you please tell me what a secular holy war would entail???


Also, making disparaging comments in general about all religions is just as inflammatory as making specific comments about a specific religion.

[Mark Tyson]

I mean holy war in the sense of a strong, driving purpose. We need to fight against governments dominated by religious fanaticism, not necessarily with military force, but I think we need to work against them. Religion has no place in politics.

Maybe "moral equivalent of war" is a better term.

I think people should be free to make disparaging, inflammatory comments without the risk of getting killed.

[Waitone]

Religion has no place in politics.Disagree. Homo Sapien (?sp) is inherently a religios life form.

The issue is not religion vs. no religion. The issue is which religion will hold sway over the mind and heart.

Some of the most pollitically oppressive police states are the same societies which banish even the thought of a transient being. You drive religion out of public life and you have just made the job easier for the development of a blood-drenched police state.

[Master Blaster]

Here is another oddity to the story

I saw last night on CNN I think that this guy did not just volunteer to re up with the Army, he was contacted by the army and asked to Reup, then was promissed a rank of captain, if he did. apparently the army was aware of his religion and movements (tained as an Imam in Syria IIRC).

I guess they really needed a muslem chaplain and none of the ones they had were suitable. They actively recruited this guy.!!!

[buzz_knox]

There was a previous thread (which I don't have time to search for) discussing the fact that the Army, in its infinite wisdom, has allowed a muslim group to vet all Islamic chaplain candidates. That group, unfortunately, is either sympathetic to terrorists or actually supports them. I can't recall which. So, basically, all recent Islamic chaplain (should that be iman) appointments have received the terrorist seal of approval.

Great.

[Thumper]

I think people should be free to make disparaging, inflammatory comments without the risk of getting killed.

Flame away, but I don't.

Freedoms are balanced by consequences.

[rock jock]

It is close-minded to think that all of Islam is the enemy. It is equally close-minded to not be suspicious of Muslims in high-risk positions. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be there, just that we should be wary.

[Preacherman]

Well, you can't say I didn't warn you... :rolleyes: