Leaving your gun in your car. Do you?


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G27
September 20, 2003, 04:44 PM
I have to leave my gun locked in my car often. I don't like it but I have little choice when I'm out of state and can't or when I am not allowed to carry it with me at all times.

Be honest, how many of you have to also?

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BamBam
September 20, 2003, 04:57 PM
I do.
I felt uneasy about leaving my Glock or S&W J-frame but I don't worry too much about my Kel-Tec P-32 or P-3AT.
My van is usually such a mess that I can hide them pretty well. Usually in an old McDonald's bag or the like.

OF
September 20, 2003, 05:00 PM
Yup. I keep one in the truck all the time. So I'll usually have my carry gun on me and the truck gun in there when I'm out and about. The truck gun also has a carry holster and spare mag with pouch too, in case I find myself in the truck without my carry gun, there's a spare rig available.

- Gabe

Hkmp5sd
September 20, 2003, 05:02 PM
There are only two occasions I am forced to leave my gun in the car. One is a work, inside a fenced in parking lot with security guards. The other is at the Post Office, although sometimes I do forget to remove it before entering. :)

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 05:13 PM
The other is at the Post Office, although sometimes I do forget to remove it before entering.
You can legally carry in the post office. :)

10-Ring
September 20, 2003, 05:17 PM
I used to, but not anymore.

G27
September 20, 2003, 05:27 PM
is that I don't consider leaving it my car very much different than leaving them in my house. Whats the difference? Do we all own metal Remington gun safes? No.

I have to so I do. I can't take it thru some business security gates without hiding it and risking my business and work.

I can't always carry it into places that serve alcohol.

In some states when I'm not at home in PA where I can carry most places,
the law says I can't take it with me. So it has to stay somewhere. The car it is.

Is the car really any different than leaving them in the house?

They can be stolen from both locations. Correct?

I don't like it either, but I'm not completely sure why. Its seems to be the same thing.

Mark Tyson
September 20, 2003, 05:37 PM
Don't they make some kind of portable strong box that can be put in yuor car? Maybe they could even make a safe compartment built into the car.

Hmm ... maybe I could build one and sell it to all you CCW holders! LOL

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 05:43 PM
Sometimes you just have to lock them in the truck and deal with it. Its not like your leaving it out on the seat with the windows down.

G27
September 20, 2003, 05:49 PM
I agree AK103K and thats what I do. I deal with it.
Thanks all.

As to car safes. If the car is stolen, so is the safe & the gun. There are many on the market. It may make it less likely to be found if its hidden well though. They make safes for houses also and guns get stolen out of houses all the time.

Hot brass
September 20, 2003, 06:17 PM
I am under the impression that it illegal to carry in a FED Post Office? Am I wrong, and why?

WonderNine
September 20, 2003, 06:25 PM
I am under the impression that it illegal to carry in a FED Post Office? Am I wrong, and why?

I understand that it's legal if you have a CCW permit unless there are any state laws against carrying into a government building. I don't pay much attention to that type of stuff anyways. Nobody is gonna see the gun unless it's needed so....

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 06:29 PM
Hot brass,
check here, and on packing.org when its back up, they have info on it too.

http://www.ksrpa.org/guns/post_office.htm

This is the main section that no one tells you about. Funny how they always leave it out of the signs, eh. This also applys to most other places you are always told you cant carry, at least in PA anyway. That "other lawful purposes" clause is in most all of them. It pays to read the actual laws on the books, you would be amazed at what you are told and what is the truth.


18 US Code Section 930

Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b)

Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c)

A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

(d)



Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

(1)

the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2)

the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3)

the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Hkmp5sd
September 20, 2003, 06:40 PM
You can legally carry in the post office.

I have never got a definitive answer on whether or not a CCW meets the exceptions of this statute, so I leave the gun in the car. In my opinion, a CCW meets the "lawful purposes" clause. The post office I use has "no guns" signs mounted everywhere and I have no desire to be the test case on the issue.

G27
September 20, 2003, 06:49 PM
most state laws also say if there are signs posted you can't carry or you break state law as well. At least in PA you would. I don't carry in a post office because its a Fed building and as mentioned I don't want to be the test case either.

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 06:49 PM
I have never got a definitive answer on whether or not a CCW meets the exceptions of this statute, so I leave the gun in the car. The post office I use has no gun signs mounted everywhere and I have no desire to be the test case on the issue.
Hkmp5sd,
The law is the law and 18 US Code Section 930 subsection (d) (3) is the law, right from the register. The signs control the masses who follow them blindly. Maybe if more of us read the actual laws, we would once again be a free country. But then again, there is a football game on now, right? ;)

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 06:54 PM
most state laws also say if there are signs posted you can't carry or you break state law as well
The signs are not law, they are just signs. If they dont quote the actual law, they are just a sign with no authority. You obey them because you have been taught to obey them. If the sign has authority, it will quote the law and you can look it up and verify it. If the law is quoted and its valid, the sign is then valid, if not its just a sign! I think this is a lot of the reason why we contine to go downhill, we never question authority, and accept what we are told without question.

Hkmp5sd
September 20, 2003, 07:05 PM
Maybe if more of us read the actual laws, we would once again be a free country.

Yea, I read them all the time. Although, sometimes my interpretation isn't the same as that of the government.

The ultimate question is, does a postal employee going "Postal" meet the exception for hunting on federal property?

AK103K
September 20, 2003, 07:08 PM
The ultimate question is, does a postal employee going "Postal" meet the exception for hunting on federal property?
As long as he has the proper STAMP. :D

Standing Wolf
September 20, 2003, 07:08 PM
...the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Next time I go to the post office, I won't leave the gun in my car, since it's obvious my carrying falls under the "other lawful purposes" rubric.

Ala Dan
September 20, 2003, 07:16 PM
Absolutely Not ! :(

This is a very bad idea to say the least. In my 20+ years
as a former LEO, I've known of perp's using a weapon
stolen from a vechile against other persons; including
the owner of the weapon. Each time you exit a vechile,
I suggest removing your weapon. If this is not possible,
such as before entering a government building, airport,
etc; then secure your weapon in the trunk.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Mannlicher
September 20, 2003, 07:27 PM
I leave a gun in a locked car all the time. Whats the big deal?

G27
September 20, 2003, 07:28 PM
what is the difference between leaving it in your car whether its in the trunk or locked in the glove box etc., versus leaving it in your home in the gun cabinet when your not there?

Are there stats that show more thefts from cars than home?

Just wondering.

JPM70535
September 20, 2003, 07:35 PM
I purely hate it when I have to leave my firearm in the car. Like most of us I try to keep the occasions when this is necessary to a minimum. I avoid places where carrying is not legal, as much as is possible. The one exception is the Post Office, sometimes going there is unavoidable. In the past I have sometimes forgotten I am carrying and completed my business while armed. These incidents are few and far between as I believe the signs mean what they infer and I do not intend to be the test case as to the actual law. I am never overly concerned when I do forget , because as I have always maintained, (CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED) and if so then no one need ever know.

Ala Dan
September 20, 2003, 08:49 PM
Greeting's G-27

In todays society to top notch security systems, security bars
on doors and windows of the home, land sharks, and nosey
neighbors; I feel that in most instances homes are a
lot more secure than vechiles. Quite naturally, it takes a lot
more effort for a thief to pop a trunk; than it does to smash
a window and steal your favorite firearm. I forget the exact
number of seconds for auto burglars to expedite their art;
but rest assured its really quick! And whats to say, if the
perp gains entry into your vechile; what is going to keep
him/her from trying your home?

Quite obviously a lot of members on this forum have not
had experience in dealing with perp's high on some of
todays substances? With that said, I recall one incident
where a victim was being held hostage by a perp high on
PCP; and he had stolen the victims handgun in a B&E of
her car only minutes before. On orders from several police
officers to drop the gun; the perp raised the weapon as
if to fire at the SWAT commander. At this very moment,
the victim broke free and hit the deck face down; at
which time a SWAT team member fired a round of 00
buck, killing the perp instantly.

So, I believe in keeping the odds in my favor; as I will
NEVER leave a firearm in a vechile.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

JohnBT
September 20, 2003, 09:02 PM
I've been known to pull the slide off and stick the barrel in my pocket when forced to leave a gun in the car. A thin coat of TW-25b on the barrel isn't very messy at all.

Is the USPS really a federal agency? I thought they were more of a semi-private monopoly like the local electric company. Time for some research.

John

G27
September 20, 2003, 09:15 PM
Thanks for your input. Unfortunately when I travel on business out of state, time and no where else to keep it require me to leave it in my trunk or hidden in the car at the airport etc. I'm gonna consider a safe in the car hidden. Seems the best way I guess.

I certainly appreciate your input.

When I can I store it with a local gunshop or at the range in their safe when I'm away more than a couple hours from the rental car I do for a small fee.

If I'm going to carry and I'm going to, in PA and NC etc., reciprocal states with PA, then I will at some point in time during business I will be forced to leave it in the car. Wish I had better options, but as you point out, the perps are on the street and threating people with their lives so its either carry and store or don't carry.

I opt for the risk of car storage when I have no other option available to me.

Most times my car will be in an airport parking lot with witnesses around. Security in some. When I go into places that are posted No Guns then I gotta go with car storage.

Any suggestions for other viable storage options are appreciated.

cool45auto
September 20, 2003, 09:28 PM
I only leave mine locked in the glove box of my car when I either go into the courthouse to pay my water bill or into some other off limits place like that. However, I do not like to do that and make the trips as brief as possible.

Spieler
September 20, 2003, 11:19 PM
I leave my gun locked in the glove box when I go into the post office, city hall to pay the water bill and when at work - where my vehicle is parked in a fenced in and guarded parking lot.

Ford
September 20, 2003, 11:29 PM
In Missouri I know that it is illegal to carry into the post office. Having a loaded weapon in your car in the post office parking lot is ok though.

Ala Dan
September 21, 2003, 12:45 AM
G-27

I understand your situation; and the problems which it
presents. My suggestion, would be too buy a pistol rug
as made by Koplin; cuz it serves to protect your firearm,
and also keeps it from being visible. Place the sealed
rug into a mechanics tool box if one is available? Most
perps committing a B&E of an auto are looking for some
weapons, drugs, money, or jewelry; I don't think they
would take time to fool with a heavy mechanics type
tool box.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Zach S
September 21, 2003, 03:10 AM
The signs are not law, they are just signs. If they dont quote the actual law, they are just a sign with no authority. Yup, just like stop, yeild, and speed limit signs. They dont state the actual law, theyre just signs with no authority:rolleyes:

Next time I get stopped for 65 in a 55, I'm gonna try that line.

from here (http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/guns.htm) (NC)

7. Even with a permit, you may not carry a concealed handgun in the following areas:
<snip>
d) Any premises where the carrying of a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a statement by the controller of the premises;
<snip>

powerstrk
September 21, 2003, 05:05 PM
I built a gunsafe for my truck, It is manufactured out of 1/4 inch thick steel plate. The dimensions are 12x12x4. It has continuious welded seams all the way around. the interior is foam padded. It is large enough for a fullsize gun, a box of ammo, and two fully loaded magazines. The box has two large weld on rings that I run a large cable through and around the frame of my rear seat. I painted the box to match the carpet. If you look through the tinted glass you cannot see it on the floor. It uses a special magnetic key to open it. The box weighs about 30 pounds. You would have a hard time running with it. It is extremely secure:)

atlctyslkr
May 10, 2006, 07:59 PM
I'm surprised on one has gotten a clear cut answer on this Post Office issue. I've seen threads on the National Park issue - result, you can't carry in a National Park but you can carry in a National Forest pursuant to state law. Next time I'm in the Post Office (unarmed that is!) I'll just ask what constitutues "official purposes" . Is it a police officer buying stamps on a lunch break or is it anyone with a firearm as long as they are not in an unlawful posession?

waterhouse
May 10, 2006, 08:20 PM
I pretty much always have a 12 ga. in my trunk, strapped down right under the tool bag and first aid kit. I'll be unhappy if I ever have to use any of them, but I'll be glad they are there if I ever need them.

If we are strictly talking about concealed carry guns, I try to keep it on me, but if for some reason I have to leave it behind I lock it in the trunk. I have a little canvas bag that sits under the driver seat so I can take the gun off in the car and walk it to the trunk.

Next time I'm in the Post Office (unarmed that is!) I'll just ask what constitutues "official purposes"

And if the person you are talking to is smart, they will tell you that it is not the job of postal employees to interpret the law.

Matt King
May 10, 2006, 08:24 PM
Never, cars are too easy to brake into. Plus I like to keep my gun on my body.

Tom Servo
May 11, 2006, 02:32 AM
I try to avoid doing so if at all possible. In Georgia, there's no equivalent to the Texas 30-06 sign that bears any legal weight, so even if a private business (Wachovia? Hel-oooo?!?) has a sign posted, I just carry discreetly.

Government buildings are another matter. If I'm just making a trip to one for some reason, I'll generally go unarmed.

That said, if I do have to leave a gun in the car, I make sure nobody knows about it. I don't have any NRA bumper-stickers or anything that advertises.

Awhile back, I had a co-worker who kept his in the car. He had a "Gun Control means hitting your target" bumper sticker, and he generally discussed gun-related stuff with clients and co-workers. Guess who got his car broken into? Instead of just getting a stereo, the perps got a loaded Beretta 92F.

How would I feel finding out that a gun of mine was used to kill someone? I'd rather not know.

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