What are the Pro's and Con's of a 5.56 Nato AK?


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Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 01:38 AM
What are some of the advantages of a AK47 type rifle chambered in 5.56x45 for a US civillian? Are there any for Plinking, Trunk gun, ATV saddle, SHTF, EOTWAWKI and whatever other uses there may be? (I know that the SHTF & EOTWAWKI are kinda silly and overdone) What are some of the disadvantages in the same areas?

I am asking because I have seen many 5.56 Aks at Shops, shows and shooting ranges recently.

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taliv
December 2, 2008, 01:43 AM
pro: it uses 5.56
Con: it is an AK

Glad I could be of help here :)

longdayjake
December 2, 2008, 01:45 AM
con--- weight
pro--- easy to maintain
con--- ammo more money
pro--- easier to bump fire
con--- easier to bump fire and costs too much to do too often.

ByAnyMeans
December 2, 2008, 01:45 AM
Sorry taliv, you got that backwards.

PRO : it's an AK
Con : it uses 5.56

Deer Hunter
December 2, 2008, 01:48 AM
I own a Saiga in .223.

I'm about to order an AR-mag adaptor for it. Rocks in like an AK mag, but it lets me use the same mag in both my .223 rifles.

It's a great rifle, solid and dependable. It has a 4x POSP scope that's mounted high enough so I can still use the irons. It's my favorite .223, bar none.

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 01:52 AM
I was thinking that a AK in 5.56 for a US Civilian would offer AK reliability, a little more accuracy and no worries about banning foreign military calibers or a better supply of ammo in the SHTF/EOTWAWKI video game script situations.

natural marksman
December 2, 2008, 01:57 AM
The AK-101 is a 5.56x45mm version of the AK-74M. The AK-102 being the carbine version, slightly resembling an AKS-74U.

For a military group operating in a country which uses the 5.56mm cartridge as standard, the AK-101 is a good idea, because it retains the good features of an AK, and you will have logistic compatability with the country you're in.

For anybody else, you'd probably want to stay with the old AK-47. Cheaper ammo, and the .30cal ammo is more powerful than 5.56mm (which is good if you want it for hunting).

Then again, the 5.56 AK would have better recoil control with the lighter 5.56mm bullet. Less recoil = more accuracy (if you want it for target shooting).

So, depending on what you want it for, they're both good.

Trempel
December 2, 2008, 02:13 AM
One of the contributing factors to AK legendary reliability is the fact that both the 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39 cartridges feature tapered cases. I don't know the 5.56 versions to be specifically un-reliable, but that round finds more potential in the AR platform, or others originally designed for its use. Just IMHO.

Girodin
December 2, 2008, 02:20 AM
I have AKs in 5.56 and 7.62x39.

Things I like about my 5.56 saiga.

I too am buying the mag adapter and the use or AR mags is a plus for me because they match other fire arms are inexpensive and I have a fair number of them.

The 5.56 has less muzzle jump and is faster in terms of target reacquisition. The difference between it and the x39 is notable.

The 5.56 round is more suited for certain tasks.

The cons:

The biggest one for me is the the ammo is significantly more expensive than 7.62x39. I shoot 5.56 much less often for this reason and this reason alone. The 5.56 would be a better plinker if ammo was the same price but its not.

Mags can be a draw back. 7.62x39 mags are cheaper and easier to find in my experience. If you go with a saiga (which I would recomend) you can get the AR mag adapter which solves thsoe problems and gives you drop free mags but it tacks another $100+ on to the price tag.

The 7.62x39 round is superior for certain tasks

Really it comes down to ammo and mag prices. They give the edge to the 7.62x39 AKs for me right now. Nothing at all wrong with a 5.56 AK though and I'm glad I have mine. If I could only keep one it would be the x39.

It has a 4x POSP scope that's mounted high enough so I can still use the irons.

What kind of cheek weld does that allow for with use of the scope. The higher mounts have been problematic for me on this front, ie it is impossible for me to get a good cheek weld and use the optics. Is this an issue for you?

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 02:38 AM
People have a good opinion of the original IMI Galils in 5.56. They are just a milled AK with better sights/chargeing handle.

Can the Arsenals use a AR15 mag adapter?

Kurt_D
December 2, 2008, 02:50 AM
Pro: 5.56/.223 with it's huge selection of loads
Pro: AK durablity/reliablity
Pro: domestic ammo
Pro: should typically be more accurate than other AKM/AK74

Con: it's an AK pattern - crappy sight, clunky controls
Con: cost of ammo
Con: not standardized like AKM/AK74/AR15
Con: won't match an AR for accuracy

jackdanson
December 2, 2008, 02:51 AM
pro: it uses 5.56
Con: it is an AK

Glad I could be of help here

Hah, awesome!

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 03:08 AM
Isnt there some amount of 5.56mm mag standardization?

I thought there were three common mag types.
1.Eastern Europe mags (Bulgarian, Romanian ect...) most common?
2.Asian Mags (Norinco, polyteck)
3.Galil/Valmet mags.

I dont see that much differense in ammo prices. Brass cased 7.62x39 is as exspensive as brass 5.56 Nato. Wolf .223 is only a little more than wolf 7.62x39. There was some wolf Military classic .223 for $79.99 for 500 rounds at a local dealer. (sold out as of today)

Kurt_D
December 2, 2008, 03:25 AM
Not really. You have ones that fit in `74 style well and those that fit in a AKM style.

Bulgy circle 10s fit in a `74 style such as a SAR-3, SLR-106, Saiga* and those .223 Chinese AKs.

Weiger (sp?) fit in a `74 style such SAR-3 and Saiga* but not the 106 or Chinese.

Chinese only fit Chinese guns.

Galil only for Galil unless you mod the mags.

Russian AK-101 uses their own mags design, Polish Beryl uses their own mags; I don't know what else they'll fit b/c there's hardly any here.

Don't forget the Yugo .223 mags that only Yugos use, but they look like German/Romy ones.

An AK74 mag is an AK74 mag and will fit ALL AK74: Bulgy, Romy, Polish, German, Russian, etc.

I don't need to go into AKM/AK47 mags.

* after doing the required mods to the rifle

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 03:35 AM
Is it safe to say that the Bulgy Circle 10 are the most common 5.56 mags in the US?

expvideo
December 2, 2008, 03:46 AM
Pro:
-Absolute reliability under almost any condition, short of a supernova
-Cleaning is entirely optional, and can be done by tieing knots in a shoe string, dipping it in gasoline, and pulling it through the barrel
-It is deadly accurate. A 5.56 AK is almost as accurate as a 5.56 AR. Not quite, but almost. Much more accurate than a 7.62x39
-Low recoil
-Available caliber in mass production domestically
-Lighter ammo than 7.62x39
-Less overpenetration than 7.62x39
-Cheaper than an AR
-Easier to operate all controls with thick gloves than an AR

Con:
-Not quite as accurate as an AR, although it is close
-More expensive ammo than 7.62x39
-Mags are fairly available, but not as much so as the 7.62x39
-Less aftermarket parts than AR
-Harder to stay compliant with 922r than an AR, since it's main components are manufactured overseas
-Not as ergonomic as an AR
-Heavier than an AR
-Not as many gunsmiths are familiar with AKs as they are with ARs. I know this sounds stupid, but I've had this issue

Float Pilot
December 2, 2008, 04:15 AM
I used to have a VALMET M-76FS. A Finnish AK type in 5.56mm.


I used it for a few years as a patrol car rifle. IT WAS GREAT!!!!

It was almost as accurate as my AR carbines, and much, much much, more reliable. It would shoot 2 inch groups at 100 meters, and I once did a demo of shooting it with the dust cover removed as I poured snow into the action. It just kept on shooting!

The ONLY reason I sold it for an AR carbine was that George Bush the 1st, started his goofy military firearm import ban back in the late 1980s. So my $425 Valmet suddenly became a $1,200 Valmet with $70 magazines.

So I traded it off and got an AR just like the rest of the guys on the dept. The parts and Magazines being much cheaper at the time. I have missed the Valmet ever since.....

HUGE MISTAKE....I am such a dumb a$$

nwilliams
December 2, 2008, 04:18 AM
I own two Norinco 84s series AK's, both in 5.56 and I have no complaints. I like the 5.56 round and I like AK's, so I see no problem combining the two. Of course I also have two AK's in 7.62x39 so I'm not too particular.

expvideo
December 2, 2008, 04:19 AM
I used to have a VALMET M-76FS. A Finnish AK type in 5.56mm.


I used it for a few years as a patrol car rifle. IT WAS GREAT!!!!

It was almost as accurate as my AR carbines, and much, much much, more reliable. It would shoot 2 inch groups at 100 meters, and I once did a demo of shooting it with the dust cover removed as I poured snow into the action. It just kept on shooting!

The ONLY reason I sold it for an AR carbine was that George Bush the 1st, started his goofy military firearm import ban back in the late 1980s. So my $425 Valmet suddenly became a $1,200 Valmet with $70 magazines.

So I traded it off and got an AR just like the rest of the guys on the dept. The parts and Magazines being much cheaper at the time. I have missed the Valmet ever since.....

HUGE MISTAKE....I am such a dumb a$$
Well don't kick yourself too hard. I probably would have done the same thing. And I would be regretting it just as much. But it was an easy mistake to make. It would be nice if you were able to get another one someday.

dscottw88
December 2, 2008, 04:22 AM
-Cleaning is entirely optional, and can be done by tieing knots in a shoe string, dipping it in gasoline, and pulling it through the barrel

I dont think rubbing down a firearm with gasoline is a very bright idea. If you mean motor oil, then by all means rock on.

A 5.56 saiga can be had for $400, convert it yourself for another $150. Makes sense if your serisously in the need of a reliable, effective, combat-proven weapon for a few hundred dollars less then an AR.

Caliber is preference. I like the compatibility with my AR's. It has a flatter trajectory and maybe a little less recoil. But if I didn't have any ARs, I'd probably get the 7.62 version since the ammo is cheaper right now.

Bottom line, Its still not going to replace my AR. But it's better then a SKS.

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
December 2, 2008, 04:24 AM
I also have a Valmet. The gun shoots awsome. Years ago I changed the stock to an underfolder. This made a very compact package thats hard to beat. Yea the $400 dollars was the deal of the decade,wish I had bought another one:banghead:

WardenWolf
December 2, 2008, 04:25 AM
I own a Saiga .223, and I weighed the pro's and con's heavily before choosing it over the 7.62x39 model.

Pro's:

As reliable as any other AK
Ammo is commonly available in the US and reasonably cheap (convenience and availability; a simple import ban won't cut me off)
All ammo is non-corrosive (convenience and SHTF; you may not be able to regularly clean your rifle in an emergency situation)
Ability to use US military ammunition (SHTF)
Tend to be built a bit better than other AK's, and more accurate (newer production in modernized factories)
Ammo quality varies much less than Combloc production (even the worst Wolf ammo will usually be on par with the best surplus 7.62x39)

Con's:

Magazines not as common (US-made magazines ARE available, and wear parts such as magazine springs are universal)
Ammo is more expensive than Commie surplus (however, you lose most of your savings on cleaning supply costs due to corrosive primers)
Spare parts are less common (bolt and barrel differ; most other parts can be swapped with an AK-47. It takes a LOT to screw them up)

The benefits, in my opinion, far outweigh the drawbacks. I look at a 5.56 AK as a better alternative to an AR-15. It's a totally different technology base, but it's one that's more reliable and less flaky. I consider the very real possibility that I may not be able to properly clean my gun for a long time. The fact that it will keep running, and shoots non-corrosive ammo is a huge winning combination for me.

Now, on the peaceful side of it:

Plinking and hunting: I equipped my Saiga .223 with a scope, and am consistently hitting 2" patterns at 100 yards. I intend to use it to hunt smaller game such as javelina. I could use it to hunt deer, as well. It's a good shooter and a very solid all-around rifle. It's a lot of fun to shoot, too. It's accurate enough to do whatever I need it to do within the effective range of the .223 or 5.56 round. The people next to me with the low-end AR-15's (that kept malfunctioning) were shocked to see me matching their patterns. Funnier still because they paid easily twice what I did for their guns; their guns were malfunctioning all day, and I have yet to have my Saiga jam once.

Trunk gun / ATV saddle: Almost invariably, a gun that is practical for compact storage will be less practical in all other uses, and the same is true here. Such compact setups usually have shorter barrels than are optimal, which will reduce the effective range. If you can get by with a 16" or 20" barrel with or without a folding stock, they will certainly work fine for this. Keep in mind, though, that if defense from bears is what you need, you should go for a larger caliber weapon.

nathan
December 2, 2008, 05:52 AM
The CHinese Type 84 in 5.56 is the way to go in the AK series. Unfortunately they are too pricey now. get u the BWK 92, the one in thumbhole version but just as good.

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 06:05 AM
Everyone has a different opinion on what 5.56 AK is the best. Valmet, Galil, Norinco, Arsenal, Vepr, Siaga it seems like most of the AKs in 5.56 are of high quality. They are all exspensive as well. They are all around 1K with the exception of the Siagas. Are the IO "Weiger" look alikes decent?

It look like a 50/50 split. (a little in favor of 5.56) Are the "no" voters AK traditionalists or just 5.56x45 Nato haters?

H2O MAN
December 2, 2008, 06:24 AM
nathan The CHinese Type 84 in 5.56 is the way to go in the AK series. Unfortunately they are too pricey now.
get u the BWK 92, the one in thumbhole version but just as good.

Agreed, but even the BWK-92 is a chunk of change and the mags are also very expensive.

nathan
December 2, 2008, 06:38 AM
i should have gotten one NIB when it was priced like $450 but I dilly dally. Now its $600 and up.

Medusa
December 2, 2008, 06:56 AM
Yeigh fur sure. Especially when it has a Galil folding stock, suppressor and Aimpoint or Eotech on it (yeah, I've shot that combo - easy to lug around, compact when stock is folded, yet it offers enough oomph for general close-in work). What can go wrong?

Deer Hunter
December 2, 2008, 10:41 AM
What kind of cheek weld does that allow for with use of the scope.

It's a bit high, but you can still work with it. Anything out to 300 yards is easy pickings.

wyocarp
December 2, 2008, 11:00 AM
Sorry taliv, you got that backwards.

PRO : it's an AK
Con : it uses 5.56

I have to agree with this post.

benEzra
December 2, 2008, 11:09 AM
Pro: Better accuracy in most guns than 7.62x39mm, flatter shooting cartridge gives greater effective range, better choice of HD loads.

Con: Magazine availability, magazine availability, and magazine availability.

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 11:14 AM
I think the 5.56 AK misses the point of the Avtomat Kalashnikov. However, that's very subjective, and you may feel differently.

The main concern I would have is that you're giving up the accuracy of the AR pattern by moving to the AK (some of which is inherent in the design, some of which is due to the iron crappy sights), and you're then giving up the hitting power of the .30 cal AK round and its inherent reliability (more tapered case) by going with the 5.56 round. So, you end up with a flatter-shooting cartridge and the greater accuracy-at-range that this brings, but you're putting it in a gun that is less capable of being accurate at those ranges.

The gun will certainly work, and may even work very well indeed, but to my mind, 5.56 and 6.8 go in an AR and 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 go in an AK.

Variety is the spice of life, however, so you may feel differently. I also like vanilla ice cream and drive a Dodge, so take that for what it's worth.

mike :)

jpatterson
December 2, 2008, 12:36 PM
+1 Taliv haha

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 12:52 PM
Its looking like the idea of a 5.56 AK is taking the lead.

I like the idea of having a more trouble/maintaince free rifle that shoots a US militay round. If you ever had to use a rifle for a long time with only 5.56 NATO being readily available and not being able to keep a very good cleaning regement this is a good choice.

There are plenty of Circle 10 Mags around and this mag seems to work with many of the 5.56 AKs. There is also the Ak to AR mag adapter. I don't see a magazine issue unless you have one of the more rare 5.56 AKs.(even Galils have a AR mag adapter) If you buy a ton of mags and replacement parts up front it should last you your life time. AR mag prices have skyrocketed in recent weeks and the Bulgy O-10s have stayed the same.

With a optic how much does the acuracy differnce change between a 5.56 AK and a M4gery? You can fix the bad AK sights, you go with a Galil/Valmet sight or thoes HK sights that people are using on Siaga conversions.

This thread has made me like the Idea of a very reliable, decently acurate, simple to maintain and compact rifle.

WardenWolf
December 2, 2008, 12:55 PM
I don't know about the other 5.56 AK's, but Saigas average about 2 MOA, particularly the .223 versions because they have an overly thick barrel. The Saiga .223 is built on the same frame as the 7.62 version, and the barrel outer diameter is the same as the one for the larger round, resulting in a gun that's very overbuilt.

I wouldn't say 2 MOA is "giving up" the accuracy of an AR rifle. Yes, an AR can do dime-sized groups if you get the right ammo in the right AR, but 2 MOA is perfectly fine out to the maximum effective range of 5.56. You have to recognize that this round is only good out to 500 yards if you REALLY stretch it, and at 2 MOA you'd be shooting a 10-inch group at that range, which reliably places it within a man's torso.

If you get a Saiga, the aftermarket mags you want to get are Surefires. These are fully reliable, and even better than the stock mag due to a built-in last-round bolt hold open. The one true drawback to the Saiga is that the bullet guide is located in the magazine (although you can buy a bullet guide kit from Dinzag for $30 and install it), so they need a tiny bit of work to use standard magazines.

nalioth
December 2, 2008, 01:05 PM
Can the Arsenals use a AR15 mag adapter?They sure can. You can also kiss any resale value goodbye, as you'll be grinding the receiver to get it to fit. The AR15 mag adapter only "snaps in" on the Galil it was designed for. All other usage requires surgery.

Isnt there some amount of 5.56mm mag standardization? Unlike the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 standardization agreements with the satellite countries, all 5.56x45 AKs are commercial ventures of their individual manufacturers and no standardization agreement exists.

Is it safe to say that the Bulgy Circle 10 are the most common 5.56 mags in the US? No, I'd say it's the Weiger mag (or their Romanian knockoffs).

Are the IO "Weiger" look alikes decent? They are WASRs built for IO instead of Century. Like the WASR, YMMV on "decent".


I think a lot of you are very shortsighted. The "it's more expensive" argument is not gonna be viable after we stop hostilities overseas.

Click Click Boom
December 2, 2008, 01:47 PM
I see a lot of Circle 10 mags being used in Norincos, Siagas and WASR rifles. Why are people doing this? DO the Circle 10 mags work in other rifles?

Kurt_D
December 2, 2008, 06:56 PM
Here lately circle 10s are more common than weiger mags and they just work with little to no mods. Arsenal brought a bunch over when they started the SLR-106 production.

I have to disagree on the Chinese being the best option for a .223 AK. One of my FFL buddies had one and said it keyholed with 62gr ammo, I think it's a 1:12 twist. The Arsenals, Saigas, and SAR/WASR use 1:7 (old Saigas may have 1:9) so they can use a larger varity of ammo.

Deer Hunter
December 2, 2008, 07:02 PM
My Saiga has a 1:10 rate of twist. You sure the new ones are faster?

WardenWolf
December 2, 2008, 07:04 PM
Newer Saigas are 1:9. The .223 Saigas are optimized for around 62-grain ammo. I was shooting Black Hills 62-grain at 2 MOA. Anything heavier is going to lose accuracy.

Deer Hunter
December 2, 2008, 07:09 PM
My Saiga has a 1:10 rate of twist. You sure the new ones are faster?

WardenWolf
December 2, 2008, 07:10 PM
I'm positive. Izhmash increased the twist rate because of complaints about shooting the 62-grain loads that are popular for hunting.

nalioth
December 2, 2008, 07:50 PM
I see a lot of Circle 10 mags being used in Norincos, Siagas and WASR rifles. Why are people doing this? DO the Circle 10 mags work in other rifles? With appropriate dremel-fu, any AK mag can be made to fit in any AK.

With no mods to them, the Bulgy waffles will fit a Saiga.

Cutting the corners (literally, the front corners) will allow them to fit in a SAR-3/WASR-3

With a dremel and a mission, I'm sure they'll fit other types of AK, as well.

FMJMIKE
December 2, 2008, 09:41 PM
My Saiga in .223/5.56 is a great rifle. It is much more reliable than any AR-15 I ever owned, it shoots any ammo I feed it, it shoots 2 MOA or a little better, it costs a lot less than an AR, it uses 35 round Galil Orlite mags and it is fun to shoot !!!
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/mbmphoto/Saiga20galil.jpg

Evil Monkey
December 2, 2008, 09:48 PM
The greatest thing about a 5.56mm AK is......IT USES 5.56mm! It is one of the most common intermediate rounds in the western hemisphere, most inportantly, in the US market/police/military.

Now what I'm about to say next is purely an opinion, as some would value certain kalashnikov features more than what other rifles offer.

Once a package deal of a 5.56mm ak and around 10 mags (a "package" to others may vary in decription) break $900-$1,000, the rifle is no longer worth the money.

You can customize/build an ar15 and get 10, maybe even 20 mags for that kind of money. Other perks include better logistics, controls, etc.

wally
December 2, 2008, 10:19 PM
Main issue is lack of mags. Chinese are slightly different from Eastern European.

If you have a source for good mags (forget about the ProMags) then I see the appeal of having an AR and an AK in the same caliber.

I've all the basic AK .223 variations, and AR in 7.62x39. On balance I'd say the AK and AR in 7.62x39 are the better combo if you only want a single caliber setup, but the AR in 7.62x39 suffers even worse magazine availability, although not quite as bad as for the Mini-30 :(

--wally.

OpFlash
December 2, 2008, 10:22 PM
Speaking of AKs in general, why would I want to shoot a less powerful more expensive round in a platform that can't utilize its range and inherent accuracy advantage?

BTW I do own a Saiga in .308 and love it. If I was going to buy a 5.56 AK it would be a Saiga, but 5.56 is just too overpriced these days and would not offer enough accuracy gain in a Saiga to offset the reduction in penetration and increase in price. My .308 is a 16" carbine model ideal for short to medium range cover penetration, and the occasional deer hunt. It's probably accurate enough for more but the side rail optics mounts leave a lot to be desired. Yes .308 is even more expensive than 5.56 but it is far more powerful/versatile.

Click Click Boom
December 3, 2008, 12:06 AM
Again, I dont see the ammo cost differense.

Steel cased wolf .223 is $3.99 a box while 7.62x39 is $3.49. Brass 7.62x39 is more than brass cased 5.56/.223.

.50 cents a box isnt that bad. and I prefer shooting 5.56 to 7.62x39.

A little dealer searching found me 10 Circle 10 mags for $200 bucks if I buy them all or $25 each. AR mags that have the same reliability are Mag Pul P-mags(over $20 bucks now) or HK steel mags (about $40)

5.56x45 is inbetween the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Some say 5.56 has better real world effect.

wally
December 3, 2008, 12:17 AM
A little dealer searching found me 10 Circle 10 mags for $200 bucks if I buy them all or $25 each

How long ago? I was buying Galil Orlite mags for my Saiga .223 for $10 each, good luck now!

At the same ammo cost, I prefer shooting 7.62x39 over .223 -- much easier to see the holes in the target :)

Wolf 7.62x39 in my 7.62 AR shoots much tighter groups than does Wolf .223 in my AR, and better than 7.62 or .223 in my Saigas.

So far I've been very impressed with my AR 7.62x39 except for the magazine issue.

--wally.

Click Click Boom
December 3, 2008, 12:20 AM
I found the Circle 10 mags today for that price!

MD_Willington
December 3, 2008, 01:02 AM
Depends who's making them... Arsenal let their QC slip and some of those were an absolute bear..

My Saiga works fine, I have used Barnaul 5.556 and Barnaul .223 in it, no problems.

Now there is a new company making an AR mag adapter much like the IMI Galil AR mag adapter.

The makers of the adapter post on the Saiga 12 forum.

RockyMtnTactical
December 3, 2008, 02:12 AM
I would like one from the standpoint of sharing ammo with all of my AR15's... However, the biggest drawback IMO is the lack of parts and mags for 5.56 AK's. All the more reason to get two of them... ;)

Evil Monkey
December 3, 2008, 02:15 AM
Now there is a new company making an AR mag adapter much like the IMI Galil AR mag adapter.

I beleive the saiga 223 rifle must have a modification done to the mag-well before being able to take that new adapter that's coming out. This is because an ar15 mag cannot fit into the saiga mag well. Thus, if the mag will not fit, then the adapter will not fit. The ar15 mag wont fit because it's too wide at the front.

If anything, the adapters should be better suited for the Galil rifles, for that the magazine it uses has a similar body width as ar15 mags.

OpFlash
December 3, 2008, 01:04 PM
Again, I dont see the ammo cost differense.

Steel cased wolf .223 is $3.99 a box while 7.62x39 is $3.49. Brass 7.62x39 is more than brass cased 5.56/.223.

.50 cents a box isnt that bad. and I prefer shooting 5.56 to 7.62x39.

A little dealer searching found me 10 Circle 10 mags for $200 bucks if I buy them all or $25 each. AR mags that have the same reliability are Mag Pul P-mags(over $20 bucks now) or HK steel mags (about $40)

5.56x45 is inbetween the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Some say 5.56 has better real world effect.
You have a point. I wasn't considering steel cased 5.56 and since we are talking about AKs I should have.

However when you move down to steel cased 5.56 you've now got similar accuracy as x39 in a less powerful round. Where's the advantage other than lower ammo weight? I'll go with the heavier better penetrating bullet and much better availability of mags and parts.

Click Click Boom
December 3, 2008, 01:39 PM
The magazine point I get a little. But the wear Items on the mags are interchangeable. I have also found AK mags to be much more durable and longer lasting tham AR mags.

What do you think the service life of a Circle 10 mag is if you had replacement springs? More than a GI AR mag? As pointed out before all it takes to make 5.56 mags from different AKs fit is a little dremel /file time.

AS far as replacement parts go, I thought the AK was able to be made by pesants in a hut. Im sure most Americans could keep the thing running.

All you would have to do is stock up on a few 5.56 specific parts and the rifle would out last you.

MD_Willington
December 3, 2008, 06:43 PM
Yes you do need to shave a tad off the magwell, if you're using galil orlites you can shave the rib or shave the magwell...

point being, you get the adapter and you're sharing mags with your AR buddies in no time...

plus P-mags look pretty swank in the Saiga...

Click Click Boom
December 3, 2008, 09:33 PM
What mags do the Robinson Arms imported VEPRs use?

wally
December 3, 2008, 09:37 PM
I found the Circle 10 mags today for that price! ($25)

Where? In stock? I want to order some more!

--wally.

Click Click Boom
December 3, 2008, 09:48 PM
They were all given a good home wally. :)

Jim Pruetts had them for $29.99 each and offered to take $5 off each one if I bought three or more. They had six mags in a few days ago.

wally
December 3, 2008, 10:18 PM
One shot deals are not something to base recommendations on. I got five 20 round DMPS .308 mags for $100+tax at a gun show six months ago, never seen them as cheap since anywhere.

--wally.

Prince Yamato
December 4, 2008, 01:12 AM
You know, I've thought about a .223 AK now that they have the AR mag adapter, but then I rethought my decision. AR mags are thin and weak. At least with an AK mag, if you run out of ammo, you can beat your adversary to death with it. I also was dismissing my personal aversion to putting American calibers in a Russian gun. If you want light recoil, get an AK in 5.45x39.

Click Click Boom
December 4, 2008, 01:21 AM
There isnt any US made 5.45x39. SO it could dry up fast.

Isnt most, if not all 5.45x39 ammo corosive?

HorseSoldier
December 4, 2008, 02:15 AM
I don't know the 5.56 versions to be specifically un-reliable, but that round finds more potential in the AR platform, or others originally designed for its use. Just IMHO.

I haven't noticed there being any real reliability differential between AKs in Russian calibers and mil-spec Galil SARs or 5.56 Bulgarian ARM-1s in terms of mechanical function. (Galil magazines are much easier for guys to deadline through rough handling and improper loading, but that's the mag, not the gun.)

Mileage may vary on that extremely with civilian friendly versions of those rifles here in the US, though. I've heard that Arsenal messed up their US receivers for their first batch of 5.56mm rifles, etc.

Unlike the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 standardization agreements with the satellite countries, all 5.56x45 AKs are commercial ventures of their individual manufacturers and no standardization agreement exists.

Several new NATO nations issue 5.56 AKs made at state or former state factories, though the Russians and Chinese make 5.56mm rifles strictly for export.

nalioth
December 4, 2008, 02:35 AM
Isnt most, if not all 5.45x39 ammo corosive? Depends on what you consider "most". Wolf and Barnaul and the Tiger label have been exporting non corrosive 5.45x39 to us for years.

Click Click Boom
December 5, 2008, 01:57 AM
Several new NATO nations issue 5.56 AKs made at state or former state factories, though the Russians and Chinese make 5.56mm rifles strictly for export.

What nations are using 5.56mm Aks?

nalioth
December 5, 2008, 02:12 AM
What nations are using 5.56mm Aks? Poland uses the wz 96 "Beryl".

Israel has the Galil in service (although not technically an "AK")

East Germany was designing the 5.56 Nato Weiger weapon system for export. This project stopped with the dissolution of East German (this is why we had umpteen million Weiger mags sent here)

Russia offers the AK-101 and AK-102 in 5.56 Nato for export, also.

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