[Autopistola]

I was approached by a friend, a young lady, who feels very threatened by her ex-husband. I gave her a card for an instructor who was very helpful and teaches several courses as well as CCW certification. She's interested in all the classes but that doesn't take care of the situation immediately.

So first I suggested she contact local law enforcement to see what her immediate options are. I also suggested pepper spray, but she's afraid it could spray back at her in a close-range situation.

Then I suggested a snubbie .38 revolver or a small 9mm handgun, because they're very controllable for beginners and people of smaller stature. I suggested a Ladysmith, but just looking at the snubbies online gave her doubts about their controllability and accuracy, and she didn't like the fact that there is no safety lever of any sort, thinks it might go off if it's stored in her car. A short K-frame was too big and wide for her.

So I figure I'll take her to the gun show in two weeks, let her get a feel for different carry guns, and make sure she doesn't get gouged this season. Not sure what to recommend next, maybe a Taurus Millenium pro single-stack in 9mm, since it has slim grips, a lever safety, and an easy single action trigger pull. Not sure if she'll warm up to DAO guns at all, especially since she feels uncomfortable not having a lever safety.

She's a single mother and doesn't have much to spend. Any recommendations?

[ArchAngelCD]

There is so much you said that's incorrect I would seriously suggest she not carry a handgun until she gets some training. You might want to take the class with her. Sometimes you can be in more danger with a handgun than without. BTW, a J frame revolver is by no means a good handgun for an inexperienced shooter. While they can be very accurate they also require a lot of practice to shoot well. Practice requires ammo and on a tight budget I'm afraid she won't do the required practice. Dry-firing can help but there's still nothing like shooting the handgun to build the required skills to be able to protect yourself without harming anyone else.

I hope everything works out well with her EX and she remains safe.

[shotgunjoel]

I would go with a Taurus revolver or one of their Beretta knock off subcompacts. Sure they don't have all the power in the world but they work and would be small and cheap and have a safety. Why would she have it in her car and not on her?

[bja5006]

consider a taser

no sarcasm, that sounds like what she needs

[Kind of Blued]

I also would suggest something WITHOUT a safety. Is she going to shoot 100 rounds a week, drawing from concealment, and train herself to deactivate a safety? I don't think so.

I just conducted a little test. I took my S&W 642 out of my pocket, unloaded it, grabbed a #2 pencil and tried to pull the trigger with the pencil.

The pencil broke in half even though I was holding it pretty close to where it was touching the trigger. The gun never even fired. If you have a gun with which to demonstrate this, do it in front of her. Then explain that, as an added precaution, because the heavy trigger pull IS a safety, the trigger should be covered by a holster, or the gun should be stored in its own pocket if she MUST carry in a purse (I think it's a supremely bad idea).

[jackdanson]

I would go with a Taurus revolver or one of their Beretta knock off subcompacts. Sure they don't have all the power in the world but they work and would be small and cheap and have a safety. Why would she have it in her car and not on her? +1 on that. If she isn't going to carry it get a full size. 1st thing should be getting some instructions though.

[theken206]

she should get some proper instruction before anything and I as well suggest a "point and click" interface

[armoredman]

Have her hand test several differant firearms AFTER some good instruction.

[boomana]

How is she going to carry it concealed if she hasn't yet taken a class, applied for and received a license? Some states offer an emergency program of sorts where you can get a license issued quickly under certain conditions. Since we don't know the real circumstances and concerns, a call or trip to law enforcement for suggestions wouldn't be a wrong way to start (documentation of the threat is important at any rate), a gun for home protection might be next (since she can't yet legally carry), and then looking at concealable guns might be third while exploring other means of self-defense the whole time. Also, regarding the taser suggestion, as well as any other concealable weapon, states have different laws on that, so make sure she knows what she can do without ending up in more of a jam than she's already in. No matter what she chooses for a weapon, she will need to follow up with safety education, especially if she has kids in the house, and learn to use it with proficiency. Just my two cents, as they say.

[punkndisorderly]

I'd recommend that she seek training first, then make the decision on what (if anything) she should carry second. Most introductory training will include introduction and firing of at least a few of the more common carry options allowing her to figure out what works best for her. It also will get her some safety training which is invaluable. I would be suprised if there wasn't a local instructor that, once her situtation is explained, wouldn't be more than happy to help her get to where she needs to be.

One thing that concerns me in any situtation where a person with kids (or who has kids visit) is how they intend to secure the firearm from unauthorized use. That's another decision that should be considered before purchasing the firearm.

In the meantime, pepper spray is probably the best way to go. Yes, sprayback can be a problem. But a little sprayback will be preferable to being defenseless. Again some training or at least buying and practicing with some inert practice canisters would be a good idea.

I would probably avoid the taser. The problem with the taser is that, especially with a determined and intoxicated attacker, once you stop the tasering you are in danger again and may not have time to get away.

[NavyLCDR]

that there is no safety lever of any sort, thinks it might go off if it's stored in her car.

Did you happen to offer proper instruction as to why this statement is just totally 100% incorrect? Why would a manual safety do anything to prevent a ND with a gun in storage?!?

she should get some proper instruction before anything and I as well suggest a "point and click" interface

I sincerely hope you meant a point and bang interface. Point and click wouldn't go over very well. :D

[CDH]

Sticking a handgun into the hand of a woman who's involved in an emotionally charged situation won't have a good ending. I'm also a bit uneasy with the idea of an emotionally charged situation in which there are kids in the house.

I'd start her with both a "magnum" can of pepperspray she can keep in her purse, PLUS a keychain version such as the "Spitfire" pepper spray that will always be in her hand when walking anywhere.

From a personal standpoint as her friend, I wouldn't get involved (personally) with arming her because you might be setting up a situation in which you may have some regrets later.
However, if you still feel that she "needs" lethal force protection, get her signed up for a CCW class and let the instructor know her specific circumstances. Instructors are often off-duty police who can give her some individual attention from a legal point of view.

Lastly, the woman is obviously not "into" guns and probably doesn't want to be. She just wants serious protection that will work when she needs it.
That leaves her only choice being a J-frame Smith or similar.
It's simple for a non-gun person in that there is no safety or slide or magazine to have to screw around with, and all she needs to know is to pull the trigger and she will have her "protection" instantly.
Don't even suggest any semi-autos to her at all. If a J-frame is good enough for me, tens of thousands of plain-clothes policemen (and women), and millions of CCW holders, it will be plenty good enough for her.

[moxie]

Training first, absolutely. Then she will understand what works and why. Let her be guided in a choice of gun by her instructor. Many will recommend a small, but not too small, revolver for a first gun and for concealed carry. The Ruger SP-101 is small enough for CCW (weighs 25 oz.) but big enough to control easily in .38 Special. It comes in a hammerless version that is simplicity itself. A new shooter doesn't need safeties or other complexities, especially under stress. The S&W 640 is a hammerless J-frame, but is all steel and at 23 oz. is controllable in .38 Special. Lighter J-frames can be tough to manage. Both of these guns are simply point and shoot and are as safe as guns get.

If you shop around at gun shops, pawn shops, and gun shows you might be able to find some decent deals on used SP-101s or 640s.

[DarkSoldier]

You've gotten some good advice so far.

In addition to all the other considerations raised by others, before I helped her obtain a gun, I would want her to honestly answer two questions for me.

Given that she is a reasonable person possessing sound judgment:

1. Does she believe in her heart that (in a self defense scenario) she can commit an act that will likely result in the death of another human being?

2. If she can truthfully answer "yes" to Question #1, then does she honestly believe she can live with it afterword.

You need to know with all possible certainty the answer to those two questions prior to helping arm her, but more importantly, she needs to know with all possible certainty, the answer to those two questions before she arms herself. Those questions need to be answered well before the dark moment comes.

Just some food for thought.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier

[Autopistola]

Folks,
The gun show and CCW class are both on the 14th. I told her if she doesn't think she could actually pull the trigger on her terrorizing, stalker ex then she should'nt bother to get a CCW, but she was OK with that. I didn't recommend her to get a gun, but her friends and family persuaded her to. I recommended a J-frame first because it's super simple and point-and-click. I was not prepared to waylay her every concern. Her child is only a one-year-old so personally I'm not concerned about it manipulating triggers or safetys. The instructor is a NRA certified and a former lawyer; he gives good advice. I see potential in the fact that she actually wants to take his NRA safety class and other shooting courses, but those arent available for a few months. I gave her the rundown on how to operate a revolver and the four rules on gun safety, that's about as far as I'll go besides making sure she doesn't get ripped off on her purchase. I'd also like to take her out and guide her so she can shoot 100rds. or so. I'm no professional, but I ain't no spring chicken either. I was really hoping her dad (a gunnie) would do that for me, but he'll be out of town on business for a few weeks...

[BlindJustice]

You might have told her if you had the knowledge
all S&W revolvers have an inner transfer bar which
blocks the hammer from striking the primer unless the
trigger is pulled to prevent Accidental/Negligent Discharge
of the wepon in case the hammer is struck or the weapon
is dropped.

Take the coures and have the friend sign up as
well....

R-

[hboy35]

at least the dog will give her some companionship and maybe ward off the Ex.

Not trying to make light of a tough situation. She needs to understand the gun or pepper spray can be turned on her. Rarely will a dog. But make sure it is not a threat to the 1yr old. I can't stand to read that garbage in the news.

[Autopistola]

Already took the course, that's why I'm suggesting it to her.

[Loomis]

Nothing's safer than an old smith. Sounds like what she needs is an older square butt J frame with longish barrel.

Like this one, but with a longer barrel:
http://www.snubnose.info/images/M36_nickel_target.jpg

[janobles14]

+1 on the taser. she can fire at engaged range and also drive stun should hand to hand occur. it provides enough time to fire, incapacitate and run. it also wont put her in jail should she overreact (which in her situation may not be relevant).

[XavierBreath]

Really, she needs to take in as much information as possible, and make up her own mind. She needs to make up her own mind whether and when to run or fight, whether and when to carry any tool for self defense, and especially whether to carry and use a gun. She doesn't need somebody to tell her what to do. She simply needs information so she can make an informed decision, a decision for herself. That being said...........

I figure your suggestion of a .38 special snub is a good one, applicable to her needs. I recommend a stainless steel one, in a Bodyguard or Centennial configuration. Avoid the lightweight stuff. She should invest the time and money in good training. She should invest in training not only to get her CCW, but also training with an experienced instructor in shooting fast and close.

Chances are, if she has to defend herself from her estranged husband, it will not be at 25 or even ten yards. It will be at contact distances. That spells a revolver. Pistols are easily knocked out of battery when pressed into somebody's ribs. Wheelguns don't have that problem. When your assailant is a person known to you, they can manage to get in close innocently and take you by surprise. Target shooting at 10 yards is not adequate training for this type of social interaction.

A revolver will also allow her a wide variety of grip choices. I would go with a used Smith & Wesson J frame to maximize those choices, and to minimize potential problems in buying a used gun.

While she is waiting to find her own handgun, I recommend you both visit The Cornered Cat (http://www.corneredcat.com/) and read up. Especially her.

[pps]

When that child gets a bit older the first muscles of the hand that get strong enough to pull the trigger are the muscles in the thumb. This puts the barrel pointed at the child's chest. Sooner or later she should get a finger safe for times of storage.

I agree with everyone above who recommended the professional training. If she does go with a j frame, maybe consider getting her a couple of boxes of target wadcutters both for practice and carry. They have such mild recoil that even my recoil sensitive wife can shoot them out of my mom's model 36.

I hope for her sake, she has the wherewithal to squeeze the trigger should her life become endangered. I've seen a few at our local womens shelter fall apart emotionally at the sight of their abusive ex.

[buenhec]

Bersa 380 was given an A rating by Gun Reports and under $300.

[skeptiq]

Speaking of the Bersa... I found one new online for $239 + shipping / ffl costs... puts it to the door at less than $300. I am considering that gun for my own carry piece. I went to LGS yesterday and was handling both that and the PF-9 Kel Tec. I thing due to the weight, the Bersa would be the better of the two. However, like many have said before, since she's going to be the one to use it, she needs to be comfortable with the gun not you or me or anyone else.

I do hope things turn out well for her.

[tinygnat219]

Suggest Training First.
Good handgun choices can be a Kahr 9MM compact,
Beretta 84 Series
Smith and Wesson 3913, or 908
Any single stack 9MM or .380 pistol that's not a Kel-Tec.
S&W 686.

I'd have her stay away from the snubbies at this point in time because these are expert's guns. She could transition to one if she ever felt the need to. However, for a beginner, it's something else entirely.

[Yo Mama]

They suck for accurate stress shots, and when she runs out of the 5 rounds she'll be dead.

To answer OP questions: keltec pf9 or p11.
1. You step up to a 9mm
2. Easy to control
3. 250$

I'd also concentrate more on awareness, and building confidence. CCW class is a good start, but if she was a person I cared for i'd suggest martial art classes as well.

[Graymutt]

While teaching my wife to shoot I got some great advise for women. it was "if a woman doesnt like the look and feel of a weapon, she is not going to shoot it." keep this in mind when you are helping her.

[Loomis]

Yep. women need something sparkly, or they won't like it.

[jad0110]

XavierBreath's suggestion to go look at http://www.corneredcat.com/ is the single best suggestion here.

Good to hear that she is interested in getting some good training. That is an excellent first step. Becoming more aware of her surroundings is another crucial step. The gun won't do much good if she gets blindsided.

As for picking a gun, if she is going to carry then size becomes more of a factor, depending on how she is going to carry it. I've seen concealed carry purses that could hold a 4" S&W 686 for example. If she decides against carry, then size doesn't matter. Heck, it even opens up the possibility of a longarm of some type. Whatever, your role will be to guide her. Unless she proves to have high recoil tolerance, I'd stay away from guns like air-lite and air-weight S&W J frames. Steel is more forgiving in the felt recoil department.

As for revolver or auto, honestly let her be the judge of that. Though I would advise her that autos do require more attention when handling. A common noob mistake is racking the slide first to "empty" the chamber, then dropping the mag. Revolvers tend to be more intuitive for beginners to learn and understand, and as others have pointed out, revolvers have gobs of different stock options available to find that perfect fit. But there are no absolutes.

Hey, for all you know she could be like my sister; on her first time out she fired my 7 shots from my 686+ (double action) and made 4 closely spaced holes from 7 yards. I wish both of you luck, I just pray her ex doesn't do anything stupid.

Edited to add: You'd be surprised at how strong and able a 1 to 2 year old can be. When I was but 2, I managed to remove 4 of the 5 lug nuts from the front driver side wheel on my dad's car before he caught me. For the short-term, she can just keep the gun out of reach, but she should be ready to acquire something like a quick access GunVault within the next few months.

[MomentsNotice]

While she is waiting to find her own handgun, I recommend you both visit The Cornered Cat (http://www.corneredcat.com/) and read up.

As a certifiable gun noob, I had to register to say thanks for posting that link. It's exactly what I've been looking for in my travels around the web for more information. Great source of information for guys (of which I am :D) and gals. :cool:

[FLA2760]

I recommend a Smith Model 10 or something similar. If it is going to be for HD the model 10 is good. If she is going to carry the gun a steel revolver like a Ruger SP101 2" or better 3" barrel would be good. No airweights yet! I have an older Rossi 6 shot .357 snub that is 26oz. My wife has no problem shooting it well with the .158gr. "FBI" load. My wife learned on my Model 10.
If it has to be a semi auto pistol choose one from a quality manufacturer. No manual safety and DAO would be my choice for newbie.

[sm]

I agree with XB's post number 21

I do differ on web sites to visit.

I suggest: http://www.teddytactical.com/

I suggest reading "Talking to The Indians" first.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm

Read that site and pay attention to any and everything Skip shares.

Why do I recommend teddy tactical and NTI study group?

I am 53 years old. All my life, I have assisted with single ladies, single mom's and kids, that have been stalked, battered, beaten, abused, raped, sexually assaulted.

The hardware is easy. Give me 10 min and I will have a lady up to speed with a youth single shot 20 ga. Give me 20 minutes and she will be up to speed with a med frame dedicated .38spl revolver with standard pressure 158 gr LSWC.
I have done it too many times, over the decades.

Boyd wrote: Mindset, Skillsets, "then" toolsets...in that order.

Teddy Tactical, NTI, Skip, closely mirrors my life experiences and observations.
One has to know self, and know Models of criminals in order to stay safe.

The hardware (gun and ammo) is not a magic talisman. In my dealings I and mine made the run to take care of evil right now, get through the night, or immediate time frame.

Those 10 or 30 min lessons were to get through the time period while I or I and mine slept on a couch, or in a chair or whatever, and evil came, and got past us, and to them.
While we were moving them, anything where that lady and kid might be caught.

Software was the main deal. Reading the room of evil, to prevent evil from doing more harm. Meaning what "model" of criminal are we dealing with.
'Talking To the Indians addresses this.


Reading the room to keep a lady and kid safe. I speak of "perceptions" often, and for a darn good reason.

We changed locations, routes to work, shifts, vehicles, along with software changes such as not traveling alone, lighting of residence, , door locks, dawgs, ...
Change playmates, playgrounds and playthings.

It is not always a guy going after a girl, girls go after girls too.
So one is wise shut up, and not trust anyone, except a very small circle.

You file a RO on a guy, it is not uncommon for a gal to become resentful and want pay back for "her side/ her fella"
This gal might get other gals, and some the lady that is in danger and filed a RO, or was beaten, stalked, raped , whatever , knows and gasl will work you and get information out of you.

"Suzie is not driving her car, she is using her mothers to hide from you and changed from first shift to working second shift now".

Loose lips, sink ships.

The gun is the easy part. Not using the same dry cleaners is the hard part.
Not running into some mutual friends, even girls, and having to not talk to them, or been seen driving another vehicle and what it is, is the hard part.

You might "think" you know the person that is stalking, or battered, or whatever, then again folks change when matters get more serious.
What "model" are they?

Re: Hardware.
Why did I and mine most often use a youth single shot 20 and dedicated .38spl with standard pressure 158 grain LSWC.

1. These victims fought attackers, or where injured.
When a knife is produced both parties are going to get cut.
So victims had cut hands, fingers, wrists, plus just being stabbed and more worse things

Fingernails get ripped out of cuticles, fingers broken, wrists sprained...

You get the compound crap beat out of you, or shot, stabbed, sexually assaulted and you need the simplest thing to operate, even with just one "decent" hand.

XavierBreath can tell you about these victims, including kids.

2. Safe
They have been through a living hell, and keep in mind, some have kids that were abused, or hurt in all this.
They want something they and the kids "know" is loaded, unloaded and "safe".


One cannot buy skill and targets.
I know about 'try before you buy", that said, when evil is upon you, it is the software that counts.
10 min for a single shot, and 20 min with that revolver, I have literally shoved into their hands, and they don't even have to know, or care what make , model, caliber or gauge.
ADEE is applied and if matters dictate, this is how whatever this darn gun is, works and puts projectiles on target.
Hits count, period.

Domari Nolo - I will not be subugagted.

NTI deals with software , then hardware.
I agree with them on this statement. I was mentored and raised this way.
NTI catches flak for these words, and I have caught flak for saying similar, and expressing the same:

The men who shoot the NTI are superior to the common man in many ways. This superiority comes not from physical prowess or intellect. It radiates from the fiber of the man his spirit. This spirit is communicated by the saying “It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn said it even better. He said, “It is better to fight on your feet than on your knees, but you can still fight on your knees.”

The inferior man loses his will and his tenacity when the matter before him advances beyond words. The superior man looks at the conduct of such men with revulsion. A bad man walks into a McDonalds restaurant and orders another man to lay down on the dirty floor next to his children and then executes them all, is viewed as disgusting bully and a murderer. However, the man who allowed this atrocity to occur, without a struggle to protect his family, is putrid and sickening.

s

[XavierBreath]

Well said sm.

[Autopistola]

Hey, thanks for the great links! I'll pass them on to her.

[Madjohn]

a makarov theyre cheap and should fit comfortably in a ladys hands. or you could try the walther ppk

[mcdonl]

"Her child is only a one-year-old so personally I'm not concerned about it manipulating triggers or safetys."

That is the scariest line I have ever read.

[sm]

"Her child is only a one-year-old so personally I'm not concerned about it manipulating triggers or safetys."

Though I was born a bit premature, I took my first steps at 10 months of age.

I also had a PhD at 10 months of age on how to absolutely, tee-totally, screw up a Singer Sewing machine, hardwired telephone, toilet bowl by (1) blowing it up, (2) clogging it up, small gas stove, typewriter, ...

And all this was before I was one years of age, and had two more months of developing in areas one develops.

At the rate I was going I should have retired by age 3 and lived off retirement checks PhD's get....

[2075 RAMI]

Training is most important, followed by a CCW class, if she plans to carry. If money is tight, she needs to understand that what may feel comfortable at a gun show, may not be comfortable at the range (recoil, noise, etc.).

Therefore, you might want to look at a little Walther P22. It's not real accurate beyond 10 yards, but she shouldn't be shooting it beyond that range anyway.

.22LR ammo is cheap which would afford her to practice a lot, then she could pack it with CCI Stingers to protect herself with. Keep in mind though that the very cheap ammo will probably not work real well in a P22. CCI mini-mags work well for range practice.

If she has kids around the house, she needs to keep the gun in a safe at all times. I don't have kids and even I safe my guns.

[DarkSoldier]

2075 RAMI is right that the gun should never be left where any unauthorized person, whether an adult or child of any age, can get their hands on it. The problem with the woman keeping her gun in a safe at all times is that her ex may not announce his intentions, and the gun will probably be locked in the safe when he kicks in her door.

There are a lot of solutions and strategies out there that she can explore to make sure that she still has quick access to her gun but maintains absolute security over it when it's not in her immediate possession. If I was the original poster, I think I'd add that to the list of areas in which she should seek expert help.

In a perfect world, the solution would seem to be for her to become trained to the level where she can safely and comfortably keep the gun on her person until her ex is no longer a threat to her.

One last thought, and someone may have already mentioned this:

She should file a police report in which she articulates her ex husband's threatening behavior in detail and gets on the record as being in fear of the man. Then she should report any future incidents of threatening contact and insist that a follow-up report be taken on each new incident. She should make herself aware of the domestic violence laws in her state/county/city and file any and all appropriate petitions to require the ex to stay away from her. This may solve the problem and in case she has to use force to defend herself from him, it will be simple to show that she did everything she could to get him to leave her alone and had no choice but to act.

Best of luck to her.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier

[innerpiece]

charter arms snubbie.

[normal]

It sounds to me like you are steering her in the right direction. I would, however strongly suggest she get a lockbox for her pistol. You can get them for $20-$25 at Walmart, so there is no reason not to. Get one not only for the child's safety, but also in case her ex breaks into her house (it happens in this situation). Good advice on the class and the choice of the revolver.

[Grey_Mana]

In all seriousness, I would recommend buying 3 bottles of pepper spray, and using the first one up practicing in a backyard / field. Runs about the same as renting a handgun (if you pay for range fees, rental, and ammo).

Learning to use pepper spray is easy, and she'll be confident in a few minutes. Learning to use a firearm is a longer-term strategy.

[leadcounsel]

1. Training and education
2. Check into an emergency concealed carry permit
3. Guns don't just "go off" if stored in cars. A good holster will protect the trigger from contact with foreign objects
4. Women and those new to guns tend to do better with revolvers because they are dummy proof. There's no safety to fuss with, jams are almost impossible, and there's no slide to rack (people with weak hands have problems with this. And if she feels uncomfortable carrying with "one in the chamber" a revolver can be carried on an empty chamber and still fire on the pull of the trigger, whereas a semi-auto needs to be racked/cocked.
5. Consider OC or a taser in addition/instead of...
6. As an attorney and also a gun guy, I'd recommend STRONGLY against the knee jerk restraining order advise she will likely get. Restraining orders are counter productive and often serve to aggravate the situation by really angering the other party. And I disagree with them on a constitutional grounds because it removes the served party's right to the 2A, and they have to fight to prove they are innocent!

People often think "I need a gun" as an emotional reaction, but aren't ready to actually train, get into the mindset, and be able to pull the trigger if it comes to that. She needs to shoot hundreds of rounds over weeks to get familiar with the weapon.

I'm sure she has tried, but she needs to try again to simply reason with the ex-husband. Most domestic situations result from both people escalating the problem. She needs to try to resolve it.

Best of luck to her.

[CoRoMo]

Yep, a DA wheelie would be the least complicated.
Learning it shouldn't take more than one session, although more is best.
I was just about to do the unthinkable and suggest a $100 Hi-Point C9!!:eek::eek::eek:

[moi_self26]

If cost is an issue, I'd probably recommend the Bersa Thunder .380, I think that's probably the cheapest and lowest caliber that I would want on me.

[CZ223]

Small guns are for experts. J-frame snubbies and small autos are not for the uninitiated. If she likes the idea of a revolver, and they are as safe if not more so than most autos, a mid sized gun like the S&W 66, 686 or the Ruger security 6 with a 4 inch barrel would be my suggestion. The added weight helps control recoil. The Ruger SP101 would be as small as I would go. They are not too bad with 38s. The new 327 Mag might also make a good choice. She could practice with 32 H&R mags or even 32 S&W. If she goes with an auto then you might consider a used Smith from www.summitgunbroker.com. Mark is a great guy and he has some great deals on older Smiths. Again, the added weight will help somewhat in controlling recoil. Ditto, what the others said about training.

[simple_rule]

tell her to get a new, larger man to protect her. want my number?

just kidding... jokes aside

she needs something simple and reliable. simple to maintain as well. and an easy to shoot caliber. id say go with a glock because there are plenty of used ones to be had at a great deal. they are stupid simple and lightweight (great for a purse!) and the slide is very easy to rack. and a few more rounds than a snubbie.

make sure she gets some proper training, or educate her yourself so she doesnt have any accidents.

a G26 might fit the bill. ive seen used ones at the local shop go for good prices.

tell her to get a good watchdog in case the @$$hole tries to break in during the night.

[simple_rule]

oh and i aslo agree with the above poster that a walther P22 would be a great gun to go with as well. small, light, cheap to practice, no kick.

[Landric]

On just the gun issue:

If she is set on something with a manual safety (and therefore an auto), the S&W 3913 is the way to go. There are very reliable, accurate, low recoil, and good for smaller hands. Since S&W 3rd gen autos are not in vogue anymore, a used 3913 can be had at a very reasonable price.

[Orange_Magnum]

Depends on the man. How agressive is he? If he is an all-out nut she should buy a ccw handgun.

[BullfrogKen]

I'm not convinced Protective Orders do anything constructive. But they will make someone already emotionally involved in the circumstances, like an ex-spouse, even more pissed off.


How close are you to this young lady? Not geographically, but how personally involved are you in her life?

The reason I ask is women who leave abusive relationships are used to living that role. And women who enter them often go into them, and stay in them, because they chose to. She's going to have to take independence in areas of her life she never had to before. This particular decision is a very personal one, and she's going to have to take the lead in it.


Normally I recommend folks let their girlfriends, wives, sisters, whoever pick out their own handgun based off of their preferences, after having handled many different makes and models. That takes time.

You're telling us she doesn't have that time.


OK. But she has to be willing to take the lead on this process.


Without knowing you my preference would be to encourage you to steer this lady friend to a neutral, uninvolved, informed third party to help feel her out and guide her through this process. There are reasons why rescue-type organizations are more successful in getting women to break free of abusive relationships than friends and family.

But if this is an arms-length friendship, you might be able to help her.

Visit Kathy's site. Ask her to visit Kathy's site. If she comes to you with the right attitude, help her along the path. A 3" barrel steel J-frame is an easy, cheap, effective system to learn.


Steve and Xavier have some good thoughts here.

But you, yourself need to be aware of the risks of involving yourself in this lady's life, too.

[James T Thomas]

Occasionally you will encounter a used Ruger SP101; the three inch barrel, in 38 spl. I suppose someone wanted to go up to the 357 and sold it; great gun that they are.

Any way, that is what I would recommend.

Oh yea, and give her some advise: that she can confirm from most any police officer.
The men who are afflicted with this "disorder," I will call it, only escalate the confrontation and violence level until they reach a climax. They never call and end to it, but will lie in wait until the right moment.

She will not be able to use the "continueum of force" scenario that police training gives, for her antagonist will do just that. He will love to respond to such an invitation.

Advise her not to threaten him with a firearm, as most of these fellows percieve that as just a challenge to their already damaged egos, and will respond with some seething and surprise retribution that no handgun will be able to save her from. Or he may force her to shoot him then and there.

She may need a gun for protection, but she needs more to dissappear from his hunting grounds. Vanish. Child, posessions and all. No forwarding address.

He will with time, find some other poor soul that is the cause for all his troubles.

[DarkSoldier]

I'm no expert on human behavior. But, based on three decades in the trenches dealing with the victims and perpetrators of domestic violence, I can only tell you what I've observed:

Humans will do, and continue to do whatever they want to do, as long as they think they can get away with it, and live with it later. He's intimidating her and threatening her because he can and because he enjoys it. It's all positive for him until something turns the tables and forces him to face serious consequences for his actions.

Petitions and protective orders will not guarantee her safety. What they will do is force the perpetrator to face legal consequences for his actions far beyond anything she alone can bring. This includes going to jail. The cops can (and believe me, they will) arrest him on-sight for violations of those orders even when not committed in their presence. As to "pissing him off"? He's already "pissed off". Pepper spraying him is going to "piss him off". Just about anything the victim does other than submit will "piss him off".

My thought would be to tell her to file the reports with the cops and seek every form of petition or order the law will allow her. She should ask to speak to an LE domestic violence officer for guidance. Most departments have one now. If nothing else, it will legally establish for the record that she is legitimately in fear and had asked the court system and law enforcement for all the help she could get before she had to act in her own defense.

Lastly, I would pay very, very careful attention to BullFrogKen's last post in reference to how personally involved in this woman's situation you want to allow yourself to become. Understand the risks.

Not legal advice, just my thoughts based on what I've seen.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier