Chrome lining in ARs?


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mb419
December 2, 2008, 01:12 AM
I'm looking at getting an AR15 upper from Model 1 Sales and one of their options is a chrome lined chamber and bore. What are the benefits or drawbacks to chrome lining in the AR? Would it help with fouling problems from certain ammo, like Wolf?

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jpwilly
December 2, 2008, 01:16 AM
If you want a reliable AR in combat get the chrome bore and chamber (somewhat self cleaning plus very easy to clean). This was one of the things they figured out early on in Nam.

ugaarguy
December 2, 2008, 01:19 AM
The draw back is that it's expensive to do right and maintain equal accuracy to a less expensive carbon or stainless steel barrel.

The advantages are durability, reduced fouling, easier cleaning, easier extraction, and corrosion resistance.

jws527
December 2, 2008, 01:20 AM
As far as I'm aware, there are no drawbacks to chrome lining other than cost. A chromed bore is easier to clean and significantly more resistant to rust and wear than a standard steel bore.

Tarvis
December 2, 2008, 01:21 AM
Try google, wikipedia or the search function.

shotgunjoel
December 2, 2008, 01:22 AM
The chrome makes it much easier to clean (I love my chrome in my Nova) and it can double the life of the barrel. Non-chromed barrels are supposed to be more accurate. It all depends on whether you are wanting an accuracy machine or a long lasting, easy to clean rifle.

Kind of Blued
December 2, 2008, 01:23 AM
Unless you're building up a sub-MOA gun to shoot handloads through, chrome lining rocks.

Evenflo76
December 2, 2008, 08:45 AM
Chrome-lining is

1: bad for accuracy

2: good for full auto weapons where heat dissipation is important

3: easier to clean, for weapons that see hundreds of rounds at a time, almost daily

With the amount of shooting any civilian is going to be doing, a chrome lined bore is not necessary. If you absolute have to have an exact replica of an M-16 and nothing less will do, go ahead spend the dough.

praharin
December 2, 2008, 09:10 AM
With the amount of shooting any civilian is going to be doing, a chrome lined bore is not necessary.

who's amount of shooting are you basing that on? a security contractor in afghanistan, a civilian, could be shooting quite a bit, and will need it to work every day. a civilian who attends just about any carbine course offered is going to put thousands of rounds through it in less than a week. he will probably also need it.

im just going to assume your statement was based on your personal shooting habits.

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 09:12 AM
Chrome-lining is

1: bad for accuracy

poorly done chrome...

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 09:17 AM
"bad for accuracy" is relative, though. Rack grade M16s will shoot well into 2MOA easily. Probably better, in more capable hands than mine. In other words, the gun, even with chrome lining, is probably more accurate than the shooter.

Plus, the CL adds a bit of durability to the bore, in addition to ease of cleaning and corrosion resistance. So, I'll go the other way with it: unless you're building a truly precision rig, go ahead and get the CL.

Mike

Shear_stress
December 2, 2008, 09:34 AM
There was a similar thread a couple of months back in which the pro-chrome folks were nearly laughed off the board as mall ninja wannabes. Ridiculous--especially considering that people spend literally thousands of dollars festooning their ARs with crap of truly dubious value. My ARs are not used for matches and I am happy to trade the $40 to genuinely increase the reliability of my guns for an imperceptible loss in accuracy.

Walkalong
December 2, 2008, 09:41 AM
My ARs are not used for matches and I am happy to trade the $40 to genuinely increase the reliability of my guns for an imperceptible loss in accuracy.My thoughts as well, plus easier to clean.

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 09:51 AM
I seem to remember a review in American Rifleman of the Bushmaster AK
"Shortie" with a 14.5" chrome-lined barrel (and permanently pinned AK
muzzle brake) shooting sub-moa 10-shot groups.

Anyone have the original article and can quote it? How long and well is my
memory serving me this morning?

Evenflo76
December 2, 2008, 12:03 PM
I digress. Just my opinion. I don't plan on doing any carbine courses or going in to the sandbox either.

If I was, a more durable barrel assembly would be neccesary.

Tarvis
December 2, 2008, 12:08 PM
2: good for full auto weapons where heat dissipation is important
Did I misread that, or did you just say that chrome lining increases heat dissipation?

Trempel
December 2, 2008, 12:09 PM
Chrome lined barrels are easier to clean and last longer. It is also my understanding that a chromed chamber will add benefit in the reliability department. Unless you're buying a varmint/target rifle and want to squeeze the most accuracy out of it, chromed bore and chamber is a good option.

JohnBT
December 2, 2008, 12:10 PM
"the pro-chrome folks were nearly laughed off the board as mall ninja wannabes"

Remind me to never mention all of the shotguns I own with chrome-lined barrels. Somebody might accuse me of posing as a professional shotgunner or something.

My little RRA was a good deal (& a screaming deal by today's prices) nearly-NIB and happened to have chrome lining. I like it and the iron sights are pretty good for moderate ranges.

John

Shear_stress
December 2, 2008, 12:24 PM
Remind me to never mention all of the shotguns I own with chrome-lined barrels. Somebody might accuse me of posing as a professional shotgunner or something.

Good point. Also remind me not to mention my Makarov, Arcus and CZ-82 pistols, all of which have chrome-lined bores and were clearly not meant for full auto. Apparently the Bulgarian and Czech armies are full of mall ninjas as well.

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure which thread is being referenced, but the tendency of everyone in the firearms community is to adopt absolute positions. OMG, ARs are teh best! OMG, ARs suck and AKs can't fail! OMG, your barrel isn't chromed, your gun will rust and jam! OMG, your barrel is chromed! Your gun won't group and you're a mall ninja! It probably went something like that- a CL fanboy made a silly statement, and the CL haters jumped all over him, possibly to excess (or, possibly not).

CL is a nice feature. It has benefits and drawbacks, and for 99.9999% of civilian users, those differences (both ways) are really, really small.

Mike (I own ARs that are chromed, non-chromed, and stainless...guess what? They all work)

Evenflo76
December 2, 2008, 12:38 PM
did you just say that chrome lining increases heat dissipation?

Misread. I was stating that Chrome Lining helps to dissipate heat

Maelstrom
December 2, 2008, 12:45 PM
Did I misread that, or did you just say that chrome lining increases heat dissipation?

I'd imagine chrome reduces the friction in the barrel and so decreases the heat created in the first place.

CoRoMo
December 2, 2008, 12:57 PM
Good thing I found this thread. The AR that I'm saving for will be utilized for varmint sniping, therefore, it's bore will be... I still can't decide.:uhoh:

woodfiend
December 2, 2008, 12:58 PM
A chrome lined barrel might end up being more accurate in the long run than a non chrome lined barrel, depending on how many rounds have gone through each.

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 01:25 PM
Someone please make it stop....

praharin
December 2, 2008, 02:07 PM
The AR that I'm saving for will be utilized for varmint sniping,

lord, i hate it when people call anything but the actions of a trained sniper sniping. please dont do that again.

what you will be doing is long range varmint hunting.

MythBuster
December 2, 2008, 02:19 PM
It is this simple. If you want an AR that you intend to use for the defense of your life then you need a chrome bore.

If your AR is only going to be used for punching holes in paper or hunting varmits then you can do without it.

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 03:44 PM
Good thing I found this thread. The AR that I'm saving for will be utilized for varmint sniping, therefore, it's bore will be... I still can't decide. I know a guy who uses his issued M16A1 (issued by a PD, not uncle sugar, and the funswitch was removed) for whacking P-dogs at great distance. The varmits don't seem to know that they should not feel threatened by a chrome lined bore. Actually, they don't feel much of anything after they s'plode.

Just buy one. They both work. CL really shines when you can't clean the gun regularly or you're firing FA, but it's not a bad idea on a semi. It won't make much difference unless you are making a real precision rig. If it costs more, don't get it. If you get a good deal on one with it, buy without hesitation. You can spend hours agonizing over something that won't make one whit of difference. :)

Mike

Coronach
December 2, 2008, 03:49 PM
If you want an AR that you intend to use for the defense of your life then you need a chrome bore.And, just to make things more confusing, my HD AR is non-chromed. I'll let you know when I have a malfunction that a chromed chamber could have prevented.

Mike

PS Don't hold your breath. ;)

mljdeckard
December 2, 2008, 03:58 PM
I just built a lower. My current plan is to build (or buy) two uppers. One in 24", stainless, dark finished, flat-top, free-floating, non-chromed, and the other in standard M-4, chromed.

I doubt I will ever know the difference.

H2O MAN
December 2, 2008, 04:07 PM
And, just to make things even more confusing...

Both my AR and my AK have chrome lined barrels, but now that SEI offers M80HT, only one of my modernized M14s has a chrome lined barrel.

M80HT is a surface hardening process that SEI uses to give a 60 Rockwell case hardness to a depth of about .002 to .003 - resulting in a
corrosion resistant and almost wear proof finish without negatively effecting accuracy like some chrome linings do. Cryo is also available.


I don't know if this service is available for chrome-moly AR barrels, but I don't see why it wouldn't be.

SpeedAKL
December 2, 2008, 04:18 PM
Get the chrome-lined if you aren't looking to compete or do other long-range shooting such as varminting where every bit of accuracy can help. It's a nice feature that adds to the durability of your gun.

Joe Demko
December 2, 2008, 04:35 PM
Amortized over the useful life of the bbl. the cost of chrome lining is negligible.
Having it doesn't make one a mall ninja.
Eschewing it doesn't make one a grittily realistic pragmatist.
Before there was an internet, I'm pretty sure I wasn't this retarded.

RP88
December 2, 2008, 05:29 PM
I like chrome lining because it matches my wall-climbing ninja boots the same way every class A master marksman on this board likes non-chrome lining because of their inherent ability to shoot 0.223" groups at 400 yards with their bushmasters.

I mean, seriously...

$40 with the benefit of longer life (something you don't need) and resilience to crappy ammo (something you wouldn't feed your gun if you liked it) at the cost of a miniscule amount of accuracy (that 99% of shooters can't notice)? Yea. personally, I'll take the chrome for the sake of not having to treat my gun like how a gynecologist treats a virgin.

mb419
December 3, 2008, 01:14 AM
I think I'll go with the chrome lining.

RockyMtnTactical
December 3, 2008, 01:17 AM
I definitely recommend chrome lining for it's greater reliability, longevity, ease of cleaning, rust resistance, etc...

I definitely do not recommend Model 1. Never seen anyone walk away from them with a good experience, personally...

ugaarguy
December 3, 2008, 02:06 AM
Chrome-lining is

1: bad for accuracy

2: good for full auto weapons where heat dissipation is important

3: easier to clean, for weapons that see hundreds of rounds at a time, almost daily
Yes, I suppose that's why the FN SPR A3 G with it's chrome lined bore holds sub 1/2 MOA accuracy for 10K rounds. That's also why all FN SPRs, all with chromed bores, are guaranteed to shoot MOA or better with premium ammo.

Chrome lining does not an inaccurate barrel make. Poor chrome lining does an inaccurate barrel make. Proper chrome lining does an accurate, durable, and expensive barrel make.

Kind of Blued
December 3, 2008, 04:51 AM
they don't feel much of anything after they s'plode.

That's my favorite "word".

...and "ointment".

Highland Ranger
December 3, 2008, 05:19 AM
With the price and availability of AR's, methinks you'll be taking what they have.

Here's to hoping it's stainless!

onebigelf
December 3, 2008, 07:43 AM
Just go stainless and enjoy the blank looks from people who wanted to argue this question. Especially since the option for stainless usually costs the same as the chromed lining.

John

Eightball
December 3, 2008, 12:44 PM
Question: If you order the option for a chrome-lined barrel, does that include (by default) the chamber, or would the chamber be under the "chrome plated bolt" option? And, what would be the benefits of having a chromed bolt but not barrel, or chromed barrel but not bolt, for someone without the "fun switch" in their lowers?

Shear_stress
December 3, 2008, 02:23 PM
Question: If you order the option for a chrome-lined barrel, does that include (by default) the chamber, or would the chamber be under the "chrome plated bolt" option? And, what would be the benefits of having a chromed bolt but not barrel, or chromed barrel but not bolt, for someone without the "fun switch" in their lowers?

Chrome resists corrosion and offers a hard, smooth, low-friction surface that can help case extraction (especially when the gun is dirty or when people like me use lots of Wolf ammo), ease cleaning, and extend barrel life (to what extent I have no idea). In full-auto (and to a lesser extent in semi-auto) guns, the lower barrel friction helps reduce heat build up in the barrel. It has nothing to do with heat dissipation, only in reducing the production of heat in the first place. According to gun designer Jim Sullivan, it is friction, not the heat from powder combustion, that is the main contributor to barrel heat. Stainless is rust resistant, but, unless lapped, does not offer the other advantages.

I am not sure I understand your first question. A chamber is part of the barrel and a bolt is a bolt. They are two separate parts. The M16 used to have a chromed bolt, but hasn't since the late 1960s. The chromed bolt was easier to clean, but also suffered from hydrogen embrittlement. Basically, it just wasn't worthwhile to chrome plate it. The current M16, like good semi-auto clones, does have chrome-plated surfaces on the bolt carrier and gas key, which reduce friction, rust and wear and make cleaning easier.

You can buy a chrome plated bolt nowadays, but I don't really think it's worth it. Everybody's got their limits as to what their willing to pay for.

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