Hk lwrc


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sta500rdr
December 2, 2008, 11:03 AM
I read a little bit about these, plus saw a deal on them on television. I am in the market for an AR type firearm, but wondered if something like this is even available. A lot of people around here use AR-15's for coyote hunting and that would be my main application. Any information or suggestions would be great! Thanks!

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gvnwst
December 2, 2008, 11:13 AM
Well, i assume you mean HK 416, that we (civies, H&K Hates us!) can't buy. For yote hunting, a standard DI AR is good, many different manufactures to choose from. Probably a 20" bbl, fixed stock, A3 upper (flat top for optics, rather than a carry hadnle) and basic tube free float handguard is what you need. use the search function in the bar near the top of the page to search for "which AR" threads. those should be the search wordss BTW.

sta500rdr
December 2, 2008, 11:16 AM
these are all good things to know. I know very little, well lets just say nothing, about AR's. I see that some people "build" their own. Is that a good way to go, or is it just easier to buy one and modify it from there? What should I expect to pay for one?

Vermont
December 2, 2008, 11:21 AM
A DI AR would probably be fine for you, but if you have your heard set on a gas piston AR, you can get one.

LWRC and HK are two different manufacturers of gas piston ARs. You may have already known that, but from your post title it wasn't clear.

Apparently the HK 416 is not available to civilians, based on gvnwst's comment, but you can get an LWRC (lwrifles.com). The wait times are probably up to a few months. You might be able to find a dealer with one in stock, but I'm not sure. Go the the dealer section on the forum at that website.

From all I've heard, they are great rifles, but whether they are worth the price is the subject of some debate.

these are all good things to know. I know very little, well lets just say nothing, about AR's. I see that some people "build" their own. Is that a good way to go, or is it just easier to buy one and modify it from there? What should I expect to pay for one?

Building an AR can be cheaper than buying one. I don't think it's too difficult to do, but have never done it before. I would (and did) buy one. For a gas piston AR from LWRC, I think the going rate is over $2000. For a DI AR, you are probably looking at around $700-$1300, depending on the manufacturer and model.

I went with a pretty basic Rock River for $950. You can get pretty good rifles for cheaper though. DPMS are cheaper, but don't have a forward assist, dust cover or brass deflector.

That's about the extent of my knowledge on that topic. Some people on here could write entire books on the differences between AR brands and models.

H2O MAN
December 2, 2008, 11:27 AM
Nothing wrong with a DI AR...
I just picked up a 16" Noveske upper with a mid length gas system.
It's going on a Gen III POF lower today :evil:

possum
December 2, 2008, 06:44 PM
2 different companies. i don't know why people want the piston ar's so much. if you are set on one though, wait on the barret 5.56 piston upper to come out which should be soon. the h&k you can't get and the lwrc's have had issues at training courses when ran hard in the past.

gvnwst
December 2, 2008, 07:47 PM
I just picked up a 16" Noveske upper with a mid length gas system.
It's going on a Gen III POF lower today


well, at least you got the correct brand lower:rolleyes:

@sta500rdr

I forgot, really, how much do you want to spend, and what kind of quality do you want? H2O picked to top of the line companies for his AR, POF (my favorive, but the base model is $1500+) and Noveske. These are the cream of ARs so to speak. Since you mainly want to Yote hunt, it wil be very easy to pick a model, typically, you want to spend as much as you can, to a limit. In the world of ARs, you get what you pay for. Feel free to PM me with questions, or ask them here.
:)

crushbup
December 2, 2008, 07:58 PM
From what I've read (take this with a bit of a grain of salt as I have no personal experience with piston uppers), using the piston does not matter very much. A good deal of the junk that works its way back into the receiver does not come in through the gas tube (though that does contribute), but through the barrel/chamber.

I say stick with the rifle as it was designed. Moving away from the designers intention is what makes some high-dollar 1911's unreliable, and the same would likely follow for any other gun.

gvnwst
December 2, 2008, 08:05 PM
Not really. The tube, espically when suppressed, will dump all the gases into the chamber. Do you know how a DI system works? The way it does, it pushes gas INTO the BCG, crapping the whole thing up, and dumping all the excess gas into the reciever. My POF just puts a small coat of grime on the piston, and nothing into the chamber.

Jason_G
December 2, 2008, 08:37 PM
Well, i assume you mean HK 416, that we (civies, H&K Hates us!) can't buy.

I don't understand why people say this when it is our laws that prevent the 416 and 417 from being imported, not H&K. They are available as semi-autos to civilians in Europe. In order for them to get the 416/417 into the U.S. they would have to build a manufacturing facility stateside. I think it's silly to expect them to do that if they don't feel it's in their best interest as a company, and even sillier to bash the company for not doing it. Not picking on you gvnwest, I just see this over and over again and don't really see any logic in it. Maybe y'all know something I don't here.

Jason

DeathByCactus
December 2, 2008, 08:44 PM
Check out the LWRC forums, also the 68forums.com has some good info too. I have one on order, hopefully it will arrive before Christmas.

gvnwst
December 2, 2008, 09:01 PM
Jason;

IIRC, H&K had the chance to (or still does) to make the 416 stateside, in ggeorgia, but decided that they didn't want to do that, as "the 416 is only for LE/military right now". I signed a petitin for them to start making them here, and it was turned down.

stubbicatt
December 3, 2008, 07:23 AM
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/koolaid.jpg

There are those who really like the AR15. I guess I prefer wood stocks on my hunting rifles. To each his own I suppose.

gvnwst
December 3, 2008, 08:34 AM
Well stubbi, you are in luck. DOW Arms makes a wood stocked AR. In 6.8SPC! (which is why i didn't get one)

Gunnerpalace
December 3, 2008, 11:27 AM
IIRC, H&K had the chance to (or still does) to make the 416 stateside, in ggeorgia, but decided that they didn't want to do that, as "the 416 is only for LE/military right now". I signed a petitin for them to start making them here, and it was turned down.

You really think HK is going to make them here with Obama coming into office?

gvnwst
December 3, 2008, 11:31 AM
That is my point.

Darthbauer
December 3, 2008, 12:05 PM
HK hasn't had the best luck in the US, just look at the crap they went through with the HK91.

I dont think HK hates everyone, just Americans. :(

Gunnerpalace
December 3, 2008, 02:30 PM
I dont think HK hates everyone, just Americans.

I'll use my ARFCOM quote,

Actually, you can't really make that claim about HK.
Yeah, some of their new stuff is made of unobtainium, but come on, look at their track record.
Do you have any idea how much time, effort, and money in R&D costs and stateside manufacturing facilities that HK has put into TRYING to bring us the weapons we want, only to be prohibited by our own bull laws and bans? They imported 91's, 94's, 93's etc. until they were specifically forbidden to import them. Look at the SP89, a very cool concept that got ate up by our market then was banned from import. Not to mention the SL8 and USC, ban-compliant neutered versions of the rifles we wanted but couldn't get, made especially for the American market.
I know I probably sound like SA, but, HK tried like h to sell us what we wanted until they eventually got so tired of getting bit in the a** for it that they pretty much gave up. I love their stuff, but I honestly can't blame them.

Crunker1337
December 3, 2008, 05:48 PM
HK has both a domestic factory and plans for a civilian 416. It's just unlikely to hit the US market due to our President-Elect's extreme position on gun control.

LWRC and POF are two great places to check out if you want a gas-piston AR-15. With a gas piston system, you get increased reliability and a cleaner-running gun, since the piston diverts the hot, dirty gases away from the chamber and receiver. However, you will also get a gun that's not as accurate as DI gun can get. With a DI system, you get gas in your chamber and receiver, but the potential for higher accuracy. In my opinion, if you want to hunt 'yotes, go for the DI system. Keep your rifle clean and maintained, and the DI system will not give you reliability issues. People say the military should go gas piston because military guns are subjected to abuse and harsh environments for guns (dust, grime, etc). A civilian hunting rifle will not see such abuse. And at longer ranges, you will want accuracy over an increase in reliability that you're unlikely to ever experience. That's my $.02, anyway. Also, DI guns tend to be cheaper, since more people make them.

Jason_G
December 3, 2008, 07:29 PM
HK has both a domestic factory
When did this come about? I know they have offices in Georgia, but last I checked there were no stateside factories. Is this recent?

Jason

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