St Louis Alderman calls on residents to carry guns


PDA






Jeff White
December 2, 2008, 12:05 PM
No, Charles Quincy Troupe is not a young Caucasian politician from a lily white ward. Charles Quincy Troupe is a Black politician from the inner city who is now apparently breaking from the dogma that all guns are always bad that inner city politicians have been preaching for years.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/29150EE3A06EA92C862575130014DD3A?OpenDocument

St. Louis Alderman Quincy Troupe calls on residents to carry handguns for safety
By Jake Wagman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/02/2008

ST. LOUIS Alderman Charles Quincy Troupe's neighborhood has seen nine homicides in 10 months this year, more than all but one other section of the city.

With gunplay wreaking havoc on his ward, Troupe thinks he has found an answer: citizens arming themselves.

The alderman is pleading with constituents to get guns of their own and learn how to use them. Troupe, who represents a swatch of north St. Louis, is encouraging residents to apply for concealed weapons permits so they can start carrying a firearm.

The city's new police chief, among others, worries that introducing even more guns into high-crime areas is a recipe for greater turmoil, not less.


Troupe, however, says he has lost faith in the Police Department and is urging residents to take it upon themselves to protect their homes and property.

"These are God-fearing people. These are law-abiding citizens," Troupe, 72, says. "They have a right to own a gun, and they have a right to carry a gun."

RECRUITING RESIDENTS

The state Legislature approved Missouri's "conceal and carry" law in 2003, even after voters rejected a referendum four years earlier allowing individuals to possess a hidden firearm.

Troupe, a former state representative, says he supported concealed weapons legislation while in Jefferson City, and supports it now.

He declined to say whether he carries a gun. He is encouraging others to do so because, he says, some parts of St. Louis are just too dangerous.

"You stop to help somebody that's in need of help, and you end up getting shot and killed," Troupe said, referring to the Nov. 5 slaying of St. Louis firefighter Leonard Riggins, shot during a carjacking by a someone he thought was a motorist in need of assistance.

Though the shooting was north of the city line, the teenage gunman also had been questioned in a murder in Troupe's ward.

Troupe is hoping to recruit residents from his 1st Ward and around the area to take a firearms safety course, a requirement to qualify for a concealed weapons permit. He has even made his pitch at City Hall and he says several aldermen have expressed interest in obtaining a permit.

For now, he says he has a list of around 40 residents who have indicated they would like to take the weapons safety course. About 30 of them, he said, are women.

"They are being terrorized by this criminal element out here," Troupe said. "Their No. 1 priority is trying to keep their children alive. Their black, male children. And that's a Herculean task."

One north St. Louis woman who already has her concealed weapons permit and a 9 mm handgun to go with it is Vivian Jones, who knows Troupe and supports his gun push.

She has been robbed at gunpoint in her daughter's home in Troupe's ward. Just recently, she witnessed a gunfire exchange outside her business, a dry cleaners, in the city's Baden neighborhood, where she lives now.

For her 53rd birthday in June, Jones bought a handgun and began target practicing regularly and she has the bull's-eyes to prove it.

"I pray to God that I never have to use this," Jones said, pointing to her waist holster. "But if I do, I'll have it."

DISSENTING OPINIONS

Inside Troupe's ward, which includes the Penrose and Mark Twain neighborhoods, reaction to his concealed weapons push is mixed.

"It's not a solution, but it might help," said Larry Gibson, 46, while waiting in a barbershop on Shreve Avenue. "You can have a gun and still get robbed, still get killed. At least you have a fighting chance."

But Gary Brooks, 64, who was shopping at a produce store down the street, suggested that Troupe is "out of touch with society right now."

"People are scared, they are nervous, they are angry," Brooks said. Bringing guns into the equation, he said, "isn't going to do anything but add fuel to the fire."

The view is shared by Police Chief Dan Isom, who took office in October. Though Isom says he "can understand Alderman Troupe's frustration," citizens arming themselves is "not something I necessarily support."

There could be, Isom says, unanticipated consequences, such as arguments that escalate into shootings because of the presence of guns.

"I don't really want a society where everyone in the city of St. Louis is carrying a gun," Isom said. "That, I don't think, is a recipe for a less violent community."

Fellow Alderman Lyda Krewson is more direct in her criticism. She calls Troupe's concealed weapons push "wacky" and "counterproductive."

Krewson, whose then-husband was shot and killed in front of their Central West End home 13 years ago, was one of the state's leading critics of the 2003 concealed weapons law.

"The more guns that we have on the streets in the city of St. Louis or anywhere for that matter the more guns are going to be stolen, and are going to fall into the wrong hands," Krewson said.

GUNS' IMPACT

Laws allowing residents to carry concealed weapons are the subject of passionate debate. Gun control advocates argue that they put communities at greater risk, while groups such as the National Rifle Association assert that "right to carry" laws have led to lower crime rates.

Last year, local law enforcement officials told the Post-Dispatch that Missouri's concealed weapons law had no apparent impact on crime.

Even so, Troupe's bid may represent a certain desperation in parts of the city where crime has proved an intractable foe.

Last month, St. Louis was ranked No. 4 on a list of U.S. cities with the most crime which is actually an improvement from two years ago, when St. Louis was No. 1.

Reports of property crimes and violent crimes in St. Louis were down over 10 percent in 2007 from the previous year. Car thefts dropped as well.

Still, this year, the murder rate continues to climb. Through October, the city recorded 148 homicides, more than all of last year. The Mark Twain neighborhood, where Troupe lives, is on pace to match last year's total of 11.

Jones, the Baden woman who began carrying a gun this summer, said residents need to do something instead of "keep being victims."

"I don't promote violence by any means. I'm a very spiritual person, and I believe in the power of prayer," Jones said. "But times just aren't like they used to be."

jwagman@post-dispatch.com | 314-622-3580

If you enjoyed reading about "St Louis Alderman calls on residents to carry guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
FoMoGo
December 2, 2008, 12:30 PM
Damn I am glad to see that.
We need more vocal pro 2A politicians out there.


Jim

zombienerd
December 2, 2008, 12:54 PM
I want to shake this man's hand. Always good to see politicians thinking rationally.

Rob G
December 2, 2008, 12:58 PM
This just put a big smile on my face. :D I'm always happy when I see a public figure advocating for people to stand up and defend themselves and their rights. I wish Alderman Troupe success in his endeavor.

SsevenN
December 2, 2008, 01:09 PM
Last year, local law enforcement officials told the Post-Dispatch that Missouri's concealed weapons law had no apparent impact on crime.

Even so, Troupe's bid may represent a certain desperation in parts of the city where crime has proved an intractable foe.

Last month, St. Louis was ranked No. 4 on a list of U.S. cities with the most crime which is actually an improvement from two years ago, when St. Louis was No. 1.

Reports of property crimes and violent crimes in St. Louis were down over 10 percent in 2007 from the previous year. Car thefts dropped as well.

No apparent impact on crime?

Funny that the impact is listed right below in the same article.:rolleyes:

Thin Black Line
December 2, 2008, 01:12 PM
"They are being terrorized by this criminal element out here," Troupe said. "Their No. 1 priority is trying to keep their children alive. Their black, male children. And that's a Herculean task."

The village is tired of the wolves circling unopposed.

Vermont
December 2, 2008, 01:17 PM
No apparent impact on crime?

Funny that the impact is listed right below in the same article

Well, there are no stats indicating what happened in the first two years after the bill became law, maybe they went from 4 to 1 in those two years. It doesn't say.

Even with those stats, it would be hard to show that a rise or fall was related to the passing of the bill.

I'm not saying it had no effect, just that from the article you cannot conclusively say that the new law had a positive impact.

jpatterson
December 2, 2008, 01:18 PM
Awesome, great article. I wish more politicians embraced this as well, we can only dream.

ArfinGreebly
December 2, 2008, 01:22 PM
. . . suggested that Troupe is "out of touch with society right now."

Yeah.

Just give the bully what he wants, and he'll leave you alone.

Better yet, give him a hug -- they can't shoot you if you hug them, right?

I think the guy may be right, though. Anyone with common sense is probably out of touch with society.

And that's kind of tragic.

jackdanson
December 2, 2008, 01:27 PM
Good for him. I have family that lives in that area and it isn't a good place.

SaxonPig
December 2, 2008, 01:37 PM
The only thing that will stop a bad with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

You may quote me on that.

Phydeaux642
December 2, 2008, 01:42 PM
Troupe, however, says he has lost faith in the Police Department

Well, I've never had any faith in the police. They are there to enforce the law, not to protect me.

Tyris
December 2, 2008, 01:48 PM
They're there mostly to write traffic tickets as revenue for their employers.
Don't count on them for much of anything else.

-T

BBQLS1
December 2, 2008, 03:02 PM
While I'm happy he embraces the idea, it's not in everybodys interest for everybody to be armed IMO.

For some people, it's just not the right thing for them. It's their decision though. I hope anyone with the idea will ponder that before they do buy a weapon.

Kingcreek
December 2, 2008, 03:11 PM
He should give a seminar for the urban Chicago politicians.

Jeff White
December 2, 2008, 03:17 PM
Troupe will be on the Mark Reardon show on KMOX radio in 3 O'Clock CST hour. You can listen online at www.KMOX.com

MikePGS
December 2, 2008, 03:33 PM
Talk Show Comments/Contests
(314) 436-7900
1-800-925-1120

JImbothefiveth
December 2, 2008, 03:45 PM
Not having guns hasn't worked well for the law-abiding people there, why should they stay on that course?

MikePGS
December 2, 2008, 03:50 PM
E-mail for Mr Troupe.
http://stlcin.missouri.org/index/contactald.cfm?Ward=1

withdrawn34
December 2, 2008, 04:40 PM
"The more guns that we have on the streets in the city of St. Louis — or anywhere for that matter — the more guns are going to be stolen, and are going to fall into the wrong hands," Krewson said.

See, now that is some solid logic right there. Mr. Troupe obviously has no idea.

So I mean, let's not stop there you know? Let's apply this type of solid thinking to other areas of high crime in this country. Hopefully it will help!

My proposal:
1) Ban and confiscate ALL cars, that way, you can't steal something that is not there! Besides, they were responsible for nearly 50,000 deaths... AMERICANS AGAINST CAR VIOLENCE
2) Kill all women. That way, how is any woman going to get raped?
3) Kill all law abiding citizens but keep the criminals walking - buy their lunches as well. That way, who are the criminals going to attack? I mean, they're not going to attack each other because they have GUNS and so they're able to protect themselves. Luckily, law abiding citizens do not have guns, which always makes sense. So it all makes sense to me.
4) Kill all kids in all schools and univerisities. Kill everyone that gathers in places that have more than 3 people in a space. That way, there's no one for a mass shooter to shoot up.

Who's with me! :rolleyes:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 2, 2008, 04:40 PM
This is incredibly good news for an urban area as anti-gun as STL is. Good man, he is...

Leanwolf
December 2, 2008, 05:10 PM
I imagine Mr. Troupe just torpedoed his political career in the Democrat Party.

L.W.

hankdatank1362
December 2, 2008, 10:39 PM
A former instructor and personal friend of mine, the Sheriff of Williamsburg Co. SC (northwest of Charleston), Kelvin Washington, is on record as encouraging people, especially shop owner, to get their carry permits and to arm themselves.

Washington, who belongs to the Democratic party, is the youngest African-American ever to serve as President of the South Carolina Sheriff's Association.

(What? A young black man, from a poor district, who is a Democrat, and also LE & a politician, saying we need MORE guns?!?!?! How's that for breaking stereotypes!)

SigP229R
December 2, 2008, 10:50 PM
W-O-W a good sense politician, we need him in Washington. I love it when people are honest and stand up for the honest and law abiding people.

HeavenlySword
December 2, 2008, 10:56 PM
THis is a fine man.

Grassman
December 2, 2008, 10:58 PM
Won't make a bit of difference in this case. I'm sure most are already packing heat. I'm sure that the 9 deaths in 10 months were criminals perpetrated against other criminals. That's just one guys opinion. I hope I'm wrong and it does make a difference, and a few bleeding heart libs notice.

catfish101
December 2, 2008, 10:59 PM
This needs to be a trend.

Yes, there very well could be more gun deaths because of this. Thats Ok if the deaths are the thugs and not law abiding citizens.

longdayjake
December 2, 2008, 11:29 PM
There could be, Isom says, unanticipated consequences, such as arguments that escalate into shootings because of the presence of

Have you ever noticed that arguments against ccw are always hypothetical? I am not saying that it can't happen, but it seems that most of the anti-legislation is based on what might happen.

franconialocal
December 2, 2008, 11:31 PM
Like many of you have revealed, I too am EXTREMELY happy and totally impressed by this article. I live in rural (I mean...really rural) northern NH where guns, both for hunting, sport, and security have just been a "way of life" for many many generations. I have never wanted to, nor ever would live in a city for many of the given reasons in the article. My uncle, however, lives in a suburb of Chicago that I've seen, in my lifetime, change from a pleasant farm community to a drug crazed city wide crack house with a skyrocketing homeless rate, rampant crime, decaying buildings, etc. DUE IN NO SMALL PART to gang problems, low incomes, lost family values, etc.

I can't imagine NOT CCW in a place like that as a rational law abiding citizen (my point being ANYWHERE these days). It seems as though now the criminals will have cause to fear in return for all the fear they have been spreading to the good people of this country.

MikePGS
December 3, 2008, 12:32 AM
There could be, Isom says, unanticipated consequences, such as arguments that escalate into shootings because of the presence of
That argument just shows that the person making said argument is insane. I have never wanted to murder someone in the middle of the argument, yet person making such a claim clearly has considered doing so. Basically they're just letting us know they are a potential psychopath.

zebco
December 4, 2008, 03:52 AM
I lived in the city of St. Louis for many years. I never would have imagined him, or any alderman from his part of town being pro-CCW.

A link to send an email to him was in an earlier post in this thread. People should take the time to encourage him to keep getting his message out there. His district is almost all african-american, and they've been fed the anti-gun message from the democratic machine their whole lives. It's about time someone stands up for the truth and common sense.

I sent an email earlier applauding his views on gun ownership and CCW. Perhaps he should, at the very least, run for mayor of the city of St. Louis.

Dday
December 4, 2008, 04:38 AM
Big thumbs up to Troupe. It takes a lot of courage to take the stand that he has (given the obvious push-back that he knew he'd get). Having eyes wide open is possible even in far-left strongholds I guess.

Gerald in Ga
December 4, 2008, 07:14 AM
Sounds like local law enforcement has had no apparent impact on crime. And as such the department should be banned.

D-Day
December 4, 2008, 07:26 AM
I emailed Mr. Troupe and gave him my thanks.

HeavenlySword
December 4, 2008, 02:36 PM
Same.

If you enjoyed reading about "St Louis Alderman calls on residents to carry guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!