I Was about to get the LMT AR when...


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Infidel Cowboy
December 2, 2008, 09:24 PM
I was in the store, credit card on the counter and giving the owner the info to order my lower after playing with an m4(gery), when I realized that the gun just had no soul. It was perfect for what I wanted it for. Low recoil, fast follow ups, high cap, you guys know all the reasons for wanting one. But, I couldn't commit. I was prepared to drop waaayy too much cash on one rifle with one purpose when I realized I could walk out with that BLR (straight stock, takedown in .308) and an 1894c (.357) for what I was gonna spend.

Now, I know a lot of you are gonna say that an AR is what I need for the fit hitting the shan situation. You're right. But, I think that since I'm not SWAT trained, if I'm ever in a situation where the advantages of having an AR over an 1894 are important, then I'm the deciding factor and the equipment will be moot. The leverguns are more likely to force me to be a rifleman.

Either way - I got me a BLR in.308 and the 1894 is on it's way (hopefully by Thursday!):D

Now, if I can find some place that has ammo in stock so I can take 'em out to play on Saturday!:cuss:
IC

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gvnwst
December 2, 2008, 09:26 PM
:o:o:o:o:o No Ar:(:(....... But those will work fine.

Now, I know a lot of you are gonna say that an AR is what I need for the fit hitting the shan situation.

Let me be the first.

You're right.
Thanks, i know:D:D:D:D

JWarren
December 2, 2008, 09:45 PM
...when I realized that the gun just had no soul.


Souls are overrated. I sold mine back in '94 for a Double-Meat Quarter Pounder meal. I didn't eat breakfast that morning, and I was hungry. And I wasn't using it at the time.


:evil: Oh, wait... that's not funny anymore. :eek:


-- John

Texasred
December 2, 2008, 09:53 PM
Whatever floats our boat. At least you have the peace of mind to cross state lines with your arsenal!

Seriously, I don't like the negative imagery I sometimes get when black rifles are involved.

But 2 guns are better than one!

Infidel Cowboy
December 2, 2008, 10:00 PM
The first girl I dated was a potential Hooter's employee of the month. She even liked to talk dirty on the phone. She was a LOT of fun to play with. But, I really wasn't all that keen on taking her home to meet my mom. That's kinda the way the AR feels.

There's something to be said for polished walnut and blued steel. While the AR might fit every criteria, I trust the levers. No logical basis for it, just my gut. And please, all those of you who have put on a pair of boots and picked the rifle I seem to disparage, I mean no disrespect. I give you all thanks and homage, and speak often of your honor to my son. While logically the AR platform fulfills all my requirements, it just doesn't feel right.

benEzra
December 2, 2008, 10:01 PM
If you like the rifles you bought more than you'd like an AR, then you made the right decision. The beauty of a free country is that everyone is free to choose what they like.

I don't personally have any use for lever-actions, and think straight-stocked guns are so 19th century, which is why my ".30-30" is an AK. But I think you made the right choice, for you.

The only requirement I'd make is, give us a range report ASAP!

Infidel Cowboy
December 2, 2008, 10:18 PM
Two stores and no 308 other than one box of 50 grn Win SuperX.

Range is Saturday unless something goes wrong. I will be happy to humble myself with a range report:D

Loomis
December 2, 2008, 10:22 PM
Your choice if fine. Just be darn sure to keep all your fit far away from shans!

.38 Special
December 2, 2008, 10:22 PM
I've skinned a few noses around here with my opinions on "SHTF" and the rifles supposedly necessary for such fantasies. I'd be willing to bet that the rise in interest in "assault rifles" corresponds closely to the popularity of online roleplaying games.

So put me down on record as thinking Mr. Cowboy is one of the more sensible posters around here.

RockyMtnTactical
December 3, 2008, 01:09 AM
:(

Your loss...

dmazur
December 3, 2008, 01:46 AM
If you like the rifles you bought more than you'd like an AR, then you made the right decision. The beauty of a free country is that everyone is free to choose what they like.


Absolutely.

There's the die-hard benchrest crowd, the PD shooters that take at least 2 or 3 rifles so that they can shoot one while the others cool, the cowboy action shooter crowd, the tactical 3-gun guys, the dedicated hunters, and the casual weekend plinker, just to name a few.

Heck, there's rumors of a group that gets together and shoots WWII battle rifles at unlikely distances for iron sights... :)

I don't think these disparate shooters have to get together and agree on anything. However, it's nice if they can all agree that keeping the shooting sports alive is a worthwhile goal.

So, that's my $0.02. I don't care what you're shooting, as long as it is done safely and you are having fun. Good choice. Enjoy your new rifles.

Floppy_D
December 3, 2008, 01:47 AM
Oh, wait... that's not funny anymore.

No, it is, and you got a good deal on otherwise stationary merchandise. Carry on. :)

Great call. An AR is an excellent SHTF rifle. Tell me now, when is the S gonna hit the F? If you have to run off looters, can you do it with a shotgun or lever gun just the same? I like 'em all, but I wouldn't feel under-equipped just cause it ain't an EBR.

mauiglide
December 3, 2008, 02:08 AM
Don't worry, the LMT will be on your mind again real soon. The novelty of the other guns will wear off then BRD will set in.

Enjoy your new firearms.

Txhillbilly
December 3, 2008, 02:24 AM
I have three AR's and three lever guns and I shoot the levers twice as much. They are just more fun to shoot most of the time,and you don't have to spend days reloading the ammo you shot in one day,so they are a more economic choice most of the time.
Congratulations,on your new guns.

Kind of Blued
December 3, 2008, 03:40 AM
I agree with you completely, however, I'm planning on buying all of my Mojo-guns later on, just in case that's ALL I can buy.

Buying an AR or a Glock is about as exciting as buying a hammer anymore.

Buying a nickeled SAA replica or a trapdoor is like buying a new puppy. :)

normal
December 3, 2008, 07:11 AM
It just shows how we each have our own tastes. An LMT AR has no soul? When I look at (or fondle) a fine AR, I hear choir music-now that's soul.

benEzra
December 3, 2008, 07:25 AM
I've skinned a few noses around here with my opinions on "SHTF" and the rifles supposedly necessary for such fantasies. I'd be willing to bet that the rise in interest in "assault rifles" corresponds closely to the popularity of online roleplaying games.
I respect your opinions. The insults, not so much.

What "online roleplaying games", pray tell, have anything to do with AR's and AK's?

I don't do MMORPG's. I do shoot IPSC carbine matches with my AK, and at some point I'll probably take up deer hunting with it. A 5-shot autoloading .30-30 with 154-grain softpoints is a pretty decent brush gun for eastern whitetails, after all.

And kudos to the man in the OP for choosing the rifles he likes, without bashing the choices or motivations of others.

JWarren
December 3, 2008, 07:28 AM
I'm kinda with ben on this one.

Good post ben.


-- John

Schleprok62
December 3, 2008, 08:56 AM
What "online roleplaying games", pray tell, have anything to do with AR's and AK's?

I don't think he meant roleplaying so much as the "First Person Shooter" games that have come into vogue these days. Battlefield 1 & 2, America's Army, Medal of Honor, etc... As well as the Doom, Quake, and Unreal Tournament series of games...

But I can't say whether or not he's on to something in that respect, but I'm sure there is some relative thinking there...

benEzra
December 3, 2008, 09:13 AM
I don't think he meant roleplaying so much as the "First Person Shooter" games that have come into vogue these days. Battlefield 1 & 2, America's Army, Medal of Honor, etc... As well as the Doom, Quake, and Unreal Tournament series of games...

But I can't say whether or not he's on to something in that respect, but I'm sure there is some relative thinking there...
I think there are about as many Enfields and Garands (Medal of Honor, most of the Call of Duty series) as AR's and AK's, and a lot of FPS games involve guns that don't exist (the Halo trilogy comes to mind). But considering that the AR-15 has been on the civilian market since 1961 and sales really took off in 1994 (prior to the widespread popularity of those games), I think the correlation is not there.

The poster has suggested in other threads that most of us who own AR's and AK's don't choose them over older-style guns on their merits, but own them because we are fulfilling Walter Mitty-esque fantasies or are Rambo wannabes (never mind that Rambo was before my time).

There is most definitely an age correlation with EBR ownership, in that shooters under age 40 are both more likely to own modern-looking carbines, and are more likely to own gaming consoles, but that's a generational thing, not causation. We Gen-X and Gen-Y types are also more likely to text our friends, have MySpace pages, edit Wikipedia, and surf the High Road on our PDA's and smart phones. But that's because we grew up with consumer electronics and autoloading firearms, IMO.

Infidel Cowboy
December 3, 2008, 09:13 AM
While I loved a spirited discussion probably more so than most, in the interest of defending The High Road...

When I read 38's post I took it as meant more toward the mall ninja crowd. We all know that Gecko45 loves those platforms, and when I went looking for someone to blame for the prices rising so quickly of late I did include his crowd in my long string of muttered curses:cuss: Unfortunately, that helps to create a stereotype that can wrongly be applied to the many true rifleman among us who choose a very capable platform (AK, AR, etc.) for some very legitimate uses from paper punching to clearing rooms.

Truth be told, there is nothing preventing a Seal / Ranger, etc from playing Ghost Recon or cuddling his M4 while watching zombie movies, and neither diminishes his abilities, honor, or the value of his service to us all. Conversely, it is also possible that an "evil" black rifle can be a child's first. One of us has a daughter who's seen in a video on YouTube field stripping and assembling an AR awfully quick, and I'll bet lunch that she's better with hers than I'd have been with the LMT had I bought it:)

Back on topic and off my soapbox - sorry -
The point of my OP was not that either / any platform was better for any particular purpose. (Yes the AR is better for room clearing but if I end up having to do that, every bit of planning I have ever done has already gone sooo wrong that I doubt this choice will matter much:)) Just that you can do all the research and math you want. But, when it comes time to put your money where your mouth is, it's gotta feel right. None of the tools we use for fun or fighting are getting any cheaper, so make it count and be comfortable with your choice. I was twisting in the wind and came down on the side of lever guns. I'm happy with my purchase(s) and you guys and gals helped me make my decision. If my decision helps someone else make theirs, then it's been a good day. If my decision was horribly wrong, well it won't be the first mistake I've made:D

Guns and more
December 3, 2008, 11:16 AM
That leaves one more for me!

Walkalong
December 3, 2008, 11:33 AM
Either way - I got me a BLR in.308 and the 1894 is on it's way
Two excellent guns, no problem there.

SHvar
December 3, 2008, 11:33 AM
The rifle you choose is what is right for you. Im glad your happy with your purchase. Hope to hear soon that you are on the range having fun.
With my AR it was like being reunited with an old familiar, exciting friend. An old aqaintance that brings back memories, one that I have traveled the world with and they were watching out for me at every turn.

Lonestar.45
December 3, 2008, 12:25 PM
If you're happy with the decision, then that's all that matters. Good for you. I can't fault you for getting two nice guns instead of walking out with one. There's something to be said for walnut and blued steel.

That said, the LMT will call to you again and you'll end up getting it eventually.

Eightball
December 3, 2008, 12:38 PM
If you like the rifles you bought more than you'd like an AR, then you made the right decision.Agreed. From a purely "investor" point of view, I challenge the economics of your decision, but from a "shooter" point of view--buying the thing you like will always win over buying something that may otherwise just "make sense." I've done it a few times in life with relatively expensive things, when I went in thinking I was going to get one thing, walked out with something different (car, a firearm or two, what have you), and I'm STILL happy with my decisions.

karz10
December 3, 2008, 04:50 PM
these threads remind me of the harley vs goldwing, harley vs sportbike, or glock vs 1911 threads on other forums...

just go shoot something and ride if you can!

karz

DoubleTapDrew
December 3, 2008, 05:22 PM
The EBRs aren't supposed to have a soul. That's the problem with them, they swallow your soul, and leave you with a parkerized black heart and an evil high capacity mind. They turn your into a soul-less monster who can think of nothing more fun than shooting up a mall or school. At least that's what the brady bunch said...
They should know, being so into guns and all :neener:

.38 Special
December 3, 2008, 08:28 PM
The poster has suggested in other threads that most of us who own AR's and AK's don't choose them over older-style guns on their merits, but own them because we are fulfilling Walter Mitty-esque fantasies or are Rambo wannabes (never mind that Rambo was before my time).

Technically, it isn't "most", it is "many", and based both upon my experiences in the field and here at THR, I stand by my opinion. Whether or not you include yourself in that group is up to you.


There is most definitely an age correlation with EBR ownership, in that shooters under age 40 are both more likely to own modern-looking carbines, and are more likely to own gaming consoles, but that's a generational thing, not causation.

In your opinion. Mine is different. Hopefully you don't find that insulting.

MTMilitiaman
December 3, 2008, 08:53 PM
In your opinion. Mine is different. Hopefully you don't find that insulting.

Wrong "I" word. I don't find it insulting, just curiously and appallingly ignorant.

I was twelve years old when the original AWB was passed. It was very influential to me, and was the single driving force that catapulted me into the gun control debate. By the time the bill sunsetted in 2004, I had lived almost half my life under its shadow. Forgive me if I'll spend most of my current time trying to get my hands on as many of the things as possible. But somewhere along the way, I discovered they are fun, and a large piece of me enjoys pissing off all those who say I shouldn't own them.

Now, I also just finished playing the new Call Of Duty, "World At War," through for the first time on one of the harder difficulty settings. I must say, I liked rocking the AK or G3 in Call Of Duty 4 more. But my interest in FPS comes from my interest in guns in general, and my preference for FPS with realistic weapon modeling of modern assault rifles comes from my preference of those rifles in real life, not vise versa. So correlation does not equal causation, and in fact, assuming that most or even many of us only like modern semi-automatic clones of military assault rifles because we've seen them in video games is actually bass-ackwards and 180 degrees from the truth.

As for the OP, the practical side of me says that even without a real use for it, if you had bought the LMT, you'd likely be able to sell it for a healthy profit in ten years or so, and in doing so, find your way into several other guns you'd find more enjoyment or use out of, provided you didn't fall in love with the thing and end up with about a dozen different uppers for it (that seems to happen to some). So in terms of actual investment, I think the LMT makes more sense. However, if you are more into immediate gratification, and find more short-term use from the firearms you did purchase, then more power to you. I am sure the LMT will find a nice warm home anyways, given the current political atmosphere. Everybody wins.

Javelin
December 3, 2008, 09:02 PM
Now go back there and get that LMT.

:)

.38 Special
December 3, 2008, 09:15 PM
The posts along the lines of "Well, I'm a young male who plays a lot of video war games, and I also think assault rifles are really cool!" aren't exactly making me rethink my opinions. FWIW. :neener:

Here's your thread back, Cowboy. :)

the foot
December 3, 2008, 09:25 PM
Arm yourself as you see fit.

The weaons Infidel C chose to buy are serviceable HD weapons, especially in the hands of a competent marksman.

Most of us will never face an Alamo style assault, and will never be required to fire at a high rate for a long period of time. Which, for me, lessens the importance of AK or AR etc etc.

Trempel
December 3, 2008, 09:30 PM
I've finally convinced myself that weapons have no soul, period. They're mechanical devices that are fun to shoot and tinker with, but soul? I don't think so. Anyway, it's a free country and if you want to talk to and play doctor with your rifle, go at it. ;)

Paladin_Hammer
December 3, 2008, 09:31 PM
AR's are overrated.






















Yes I'm an AK owner.

pbearperry
December 3, 2008, 09:36 PM
Maybe it's just me,but the .223 just does not appeal to me.Every AR 15 I have shot out of the box felt foreign in my hands.I think their triggers are lousy.

Cesiumsponge
December 3, 2008, 10:10 PM
Now, I know a lot of you are gonna say that an AR is what I need for the fit hitting the shan situation. You're right. But, I think that since I'm not SWAT trained, if I'm ever in a situation where the advantages of having an AR over an 1894 are important, then I'm the deciding factor and the equipment will be moot. The leverguns are more likely to force me to be a rifleman.

I'm not sure where that misconception comes from. How many riflemen in the military or marksmen units in law enforcement train on lever guns? Marksmanship has very little to do with the type of rifle you use. You apply marksmanship skills to whatever firearm you use. You don't get imbued with marksmanship depending on what firearm selection you make. The concept that you have to be someone in SWAT is nothing more than pop culture stereotype.

I suspect this is a taste bias or lack of knowledge, and I don't mean that in an insulting manner. A hunter at work scoffs at my owning a couple EBRs and calls them machine guns, and says he has no need for one unless he wants to put on a trench coat and mow down a school, even though Remington makes an AR in camo for varmint hunting and ARs have been used in hunting and competitions for decades.

I could make similar statements, saying that I don't need a lever action unless I plan to mow down native americans and buffalo in the wild west or become a vigilante outlaw. It's easy to make up negative stereotypes on subjects you have no interest or knowledge in. Please don't repeat negative stereotypes based on nothing as it's harmful to the overall cause of the firearms community.

I also realize this might be a generational thing. 50 years from now, young people are going to scoff at EBR owners and their "stupid black rifles" while they're playing with the latest and greatest laser rifles.

dmazur
December 4, 2008, 01:05 AM
50 years from now, young people are going to scoff at EBR owners and their "stupid black rifles" while they're playing with the latest and greatest laser rifles.

Perhaps. The way things are going, there may be "maximum mw" restrictions, built-in inclinometers to prevent shooting up and injuring birds, and further restrictions that only allow LEO's to wear mirrored clothing. Generally, I find predictions of laser weapons future capabilities to be "incoherent". ( :) )

stubbicatt
December 4, 2008, 06:55 AM
Good choice. Don't forget that you can shoot cast bullets through that lever actioned rifle!

I love the smell of alox in the morning... it smells like... recreation.

RP88
December 4, 2008, 02:44 PM
considering the price of an LMT as it was before the election, not to mention what it could be now - I can't say that I could blame you, either.

Infidel Cowboy
December 4, 2008, 08:19 PM
Thanks for all the comments folks! I left the store thinking I would go crazy waiting for the 1894, but it's kinda cool knowing I have a brand new rifle and another on the way. Even if the decision turns out to be a mistake, I figure any mistake that nets me two extra rifles can't be that bad:evil:

CesiumSponge: by saying that the levers would more likely force me to be a better rifleman, I was referring more to my deficiencies than the AR's. Perhaps I should've been more clear. I shoot my revolver a bit better than my pistol simply because it's tough for me to take my time with the pistol when it'll throw rounds downrange so quickly. I end up getting caught up in quantity over quality. Since I know I have this issue with handguns, I can only imagine that an AR would create an exponential discipline problem for me. It is my suspicion that with the levers it will be easier to maintain self control:D

Stubbicatt: Help a new guy out please. What benefits are there to cast bullets? Something to do with reloading? I hope to close that circle some day, but have no knowledge of it presently.

Can't wait for my son to bring home his first 40mw plasma rifle:D

atlanticfire
December 5, 2008, 12:36 AM
All this talk of games, where is the love for the best one. . . Counter strike duhh :D I know its old but its still the only one I like. And yes, there is a nice AR and a nice AK in it, so there!:neener:

MTMilitiaman
December 5, 2008, 12:39 AM
I didn't discover Counter Strike until I was in college, by which point I was already a pretty big fan of the AK. God knows I spent an unholy amount of time on that game my freshman year. Hours and hours...

How some can suggest I like AKs because I play them in video games when I liked AKs before I ever played them in video games, I will never know. I guess that is what passes for deductive logic these days...

atlanticfire
December 5, 2008, 12:46 AM
Letís just say that I've been into guns a long time. I've always had ones that I like more than others. A video game would never influence that. And yes, I think for some time I had to enter CS addiction rehab. I was told I was too old for that game . awww:(

Cesiumsponge
December 5, 2008, 01:22 AM
Since I know I have this issue with handguns, I can only imagine that an AR would create an exponential discipline problem for me. It is my suspicion that with the levers it will be easier to maintain self control :D

That is quite true, at least in the beginning. :D Everyone probably tries to bumpfire at least once when they get an AR...then realize they just emptied $15 of ammo in 3 seconds. As long as you buy what you want, that is what's important! No point in buying derringers or an AR if they don't appeal to you!

Anyhow I don't think video games are any more an evil influence than Hollywood. How many people bought a 44 magnum revolver because of Dirty Harry? Guns are glamorized everywhere and video games are just another medium for shameless advertising.

dmazur
December 5, 2008, 01:35 AM
I believe the renewed interest in the Garand was more or less related to modern WWII movies such as "Saving Private Ryan", and video games like Call of Duty, which I think won a couple of awards.

All of this, shooting steel plates, Cowboy Action Shooting, IDPA, etc. is supposed to be just a hobby. Sometimes there is supposed to be a side benefit, such as IDPA improving self-defense abilities (well, provided you actually use the pistol you carry for competition...)

However, most of it is just plain fun. And there can be different types of fun. I will admit there is a different kind of satisfaction between achieving a small group and blowing up a milk jug full of water. :)

Safety First
December 5, 2008, 09:35 PM
We all have our favorites, don't we....that said.... I am waiting on a phone call from my local gun shop that the LMT he ordered for me in mid October is anxiously awaiting me to pick her up. Is the LMT going to be my favorite weapon? Probably not but the jury is still out on that one. Enyoy the guns you bought and don't look back. If later you have that nagging feeling for an AR, the LMT would be a great choice....Happy shooting....

kwelz
December 6, 2008, 01:16 AM
To each their own. To me an AR has more "soul" than most Bolt or Lever Guns I have handled.

Infidel Cowboy
December 6, 2008, 08:56 AM
Got called into work today.:cuss: No range time this weekend. Best I'll be able to do is take the 1894 to the pistol range if I"m lucky:fire:

gyp_c2
December 6, 2008, 09:21 AM
...just as long as you don't give them girly names... or call it... a she......
http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

Owen
December 6, 2008, 09:34 AM
dmasur (MAZER?),

the cops can wear all the mirrored clothing they want. It'll still explode from the heat input of my fusion pumped, zero-point energy cooled 400GW burner!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

dmazur
December 6, 2008, 02:11 PM
I wasn't trying to hijack the thread...oops.

The references to restrictions and mirrors was a poor attempt at humor. Meaning that, even if energy weapons replace projectile weapons far in the future, we'll probably see silly restrictions. :)

(And "incoherent" was a bad pun on lasers.)

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