Camping in Maine: What to bring?


December 3, 2008, 03:09 AM

Howdy, I'm new here and loving the site. :)

My brother recently returned from a winter camping trip in Maine, and based on his recon, I intend to head up late spring/early summer. I'll be north of Rangeley, north of Moosehead and close to the Canadian border in the Seboomook Lake area. It will most likely be myself, my GF, and another couple. All 4 of us are well versed with firearms, I need to figure out what we're bringing up with us. Note we are not going to a "family" campground, we'll have 2 jeeps and all the needed gear to go into the bush and spend 3-4 days, hopefully within close range to the vehicles. I'm not looking on commentary about our camping, I'm looking for info about which of my stable of firearms (rifles) would be the most appropriate for self-defense against whatever threats may present themselves (most likely animal-type). Also, info about what types of animals I may encounter. I'm not hunting, I just want to make sure I'm not going to be an animals dinner. :)

For the 2 males, I have the following choices: #4MKII .303 w/scope; K98 "sporterized" 8MM w/scope; WIN '94 .30-30 lever; Ruger Mini 30; Ruger Mini 14; Sagia .308; 1903A3; Mossberg 590 12GA; Bushmaster .223 w/EOTech; SKS X 2, with and without scope; Nagant M44.

For the females: Beretta Storm in 9MM and one in .45 (carbines); Marlin .22lr w/scope and 15 rounds in the tube; Walther G22; and the Bushmaster .223 and/or Ruger Mini 14.

None of us can CCW in ME, so I'm going without a sidearm. The women are only comfortable with the arms listed above; my GF is a competent shot with those listed but not with the larger calibers. Any help you or advice you fellas could give would be welcome. Thanks!!


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Kind of Blued
December 3, 2008, 04:31 AM
First of all, what are your options legally-speaking? Can you openly carry a pistol? Sling a rifle or shotgun wherever you want?

I understand you'll be in the bush, but this was the first thing that came to mind when you said you couldn't carry concealed.

Anyway, I'd suggest something both rugged and substantial. The 590 and 30/30 for the boys and, of course, whatever the ladies want. :) I'd avoid the scoped rifles altogether. Too fragile and cumbersome. If you're going to be shooting an unfriendly animal in self-defense, it will be within 25 yards, it might happen suddenly requiring fast sight acquisition, and you'll have a short amount of time to do your work. For that reason, I might go with the unscoped SKS instead of the lever gun if you don't have a lot of practice running the lever quickly.

The .22 rifle and a handgun would be good for the ladies simply for variety. If you find a fatally-injured animal, need to deal with varmints, or harvest a squirrel or rabbit in an emergency, the .22 is the only ideal choice. A 22 will also work great on curious, mentally-diseased Maine lobster who may make it far enough inland to do grievous bodily harm to your womenfolk. I'm sure there are other animals to worry about in Maine, but loster came to mind, and I really don't trust those things. ;)

And stoke the 590 with slugs & buck, in any order that you see fit. :)

Have fun!

December 3, 2008, 11:21 AM
What should you bring?

Lots of warm clothing!

December 3, 2008, 12:17 PM
Maybe snowshoes?


December 3, 2008, 12:45 PM
Welcome to the great north woods!!!

I've lived in northern NH my whole life and spent a TON of time in the area that you will be in. Generally, my answer would be a good shotgun with 00 buckshot or good slugs.

The reality is, esp. with 3-4 of you hanging out, you should have NOTHING to worry about with animals. You would be better served by spending your energy on preparing your site the proper ways rather than worrying about a problem (the whole "proactive"/"reactive" thing.)

If any, your biggest problem is going to be with black bears due to curiosity about food especially due to the fact that it will be springtime. They will be hungrier than normal, as they are going to be trying to replensish all the energy they lost during hibernation. So here is a couple hints.....

--Moose: No problem in spring. The rut is in the fall, and that is when the bulls can be very argressive. Cows will understandably be very protective of young so just give them due space if you encounter one.

--Bear: keep your cooking/eating area well away from your tentsite/cabin/etc. (are you tenting it??). Clean up after yourself. Don't wear the same clothes to bed as you cooked/ate in. Oddly enough.....take a piss around your area before you go to bed (MALES ONLY, esp. if the women are having "that time of month") to leave a human scent. HANG YOUR FOOD over a limb about 15-20 feet high so they can't get to it. This also keeps food scents up in the canopy more than closer to the ground. Discard food scraps well away from the area. DO NOT BURN UNUSED FOOD, as this will just spread the scent around even more.

--Timber wolves, coyotes, fisher cats, etc. : A non point really, much more wary of humans than all the media hype gives credit too. Coyotes will adhere to the pack mentality of other dogs, but usually are vary wary of human interaction in that area.

--Big cats:Some claim that they aren't even around, but I've seen some myself so my mind is pretty much made up. Also really a non-point. Very wary of human interaction.

Honestly, you have more to worry about with the random HUMAN encounter in that area than any animal you will come in contact with.

I hope this helps!!! Enjoy, and have a great time. Write back if you have any other questions.

December 3, 2008, 12:46 PM
A tent.

December 3, 2008, 12:56 PM
You're biggest worries are going to be weather - late spring can still be cold and snowy up there - and moose and bears with calves and cubs. Obviously don't try and get close to any babies to take pictures or feed them or any other stupid thing because momma won't be far away and she'll put a hurt on you in hurry. In fact I'd be more worried about a moose than a bear. You might also run into deer, coyotes, bobcats, lynx, etc. Everything else is pretty benign. The only lobster you'll find where your going will be in restaurants or the grocery store.

I'd take the 30-30, 12ga, or .308 and do my best to enjoy the wildlife from a distance. Of course if you've got a heavy caliber handgun that'll work too. You can open carry in the woods and no one's going to care.

December 3, 2008, 02:04 PM
Thanks for the great replies, guys!

Couple of things: Yes, we are tenting it and we have that side of things covered, although you guys did bring up a couple of side ideas I like (urine and hanging food as examples).

As far as the handguns: I don't have a Maine CCW and as much as I'd like to bring my Smith 686 with me, I don't want to run afoul of local laws. I'm less clear on open carry, but am trying to get a firm answer from MSP. From what I can see, nothing in the Maine statutes prohibits slinging a rifle and walking about the back woods. Based upon advice above and the fact that we're not going to hunt, the scoped rifles will stay home. I have a good set of binoculars to see with anyway. :)

December 3, 2008, 02:09 PM
I was born and grew up in Maine and lived there up until 2005 when I moved out west.

Bring warm clothes and enjoy yourself. There isn't a whole lot to worry about in the Maine woods during winter other than hypothermia and maybe getting lost in the middle of nowhere;)

Maine is one of those oddball State. They are pretty gun friendly but a Maine CCW is the only way you can carry a concealed weapon in Maine.

December 3, 2008, 02:24 PM
+1 on what Franconialocal said.

I live in central Maine and do a lot of backpacking and camping all over the state. A couple other critters to keep in mind are raccoons and mice, they can be relentless at times, but camp arrangement is more of a consideration for that than firearms. I usually hang my food in a bag made of tear-resistant material and make sure everything is cinched up very tight, the mice can find their way into almost anything.

The only time I've ever had an encounter with a bear, (or what I presume to be a bear) while camping was on Katahdin at Chimney pond. A buddy and I were going to hang the "bear bag" late at night at the designated site with a wire to hang the food, and we were having a conversation about how unlikely it would be for a bear to come around the site and how we thought it was kind of foolish. Suddenly we spooked something that was maybe 10 ft. off the trail right in front of us and it grunted/growled and lumbered off into the dark with heavy footsteps. We couldn't see anything with our headlamp beams, so we hung the food then hightailed it back to camp and made the fire a bit bigger and stayed up most of the night, half joking, half nervous about what had happened. That was only one time out of many many years of camping.

December 3, 2008, 03:54 PM
Late spring-early summer,the only guns you need are the ones that shoot pure DEET!

May I suggest not carrying a firearm in the Maine woods unless you have a hunting license and/or CCW and never walk around in the woods with one on a Sunday unless you have a CCW!Be carefull when driving in Maine with firearms in your jeeps in the back woods!Resting a loaded rifle against your jeep or putting one on the hood is hunting from a vehical in these parts,just one example of what can ruin your trip besides black flies and skeeters!

Here is a link for you ,read through all the hunting and trapping laws,pay special attention to the parts that mention firearms and un-improved townships!!!!!If you have a question about anything call them,your questions will get straight forward to the point answers!

December 3, 2008, 04:06 PM
4 people 4 guns. I would pic the saiga .308 and the Moss 590. 3rd would be the 30-30. Multiple shots and no need for a scope for close range self-defense work.

ladies. The Storm in .45 and the bushy in .223. Same reasons.

December 3, 2008, 04:09 PM
Good grief!

He's going camping, not on maneuvers with the Maine State Militia!


December 3, 2008, 04:39 PM
For the 2 males, I have the following choices: #4MKII .303 w/scope; K98 "sporterized" 8MM w/scope; WIN '94 .30-30 lever; Ruger Mini 30; Ruger Mini 14; Sagia .308; 1903A3; Mossberg 590 12GA; Bushmaster .223 w/EOTech; SKS X 2, with and without scope; Nagant M44.

For the females: Beretta Storm in 9MM and one in .45 (carbines); Marlin .22lr w/scope and 15 rounds in the tube; Walther G22; and the Bushmaster .223 and/or Ruger Mini 14.

Clearly, you have access to some sufficient weapons for a safe 4 day trip. Unless you acquire something a little more serious than a .308, I wouldn't recommend staying beyond 3-4 days. Can you get a .338 Lapua or .300 WSM?

Back your bolt-actions with an AR with a Beta drum. It holds 100 rounds. Use the green tip tungsten penetrator lake city ammo.

Do you have any bayonets? Get one. A shot gun is always a plus. #00 buck, not more than 200 rounds really. You can find the police tradeins with a 14" barrell for a few hundred plus the NFA tax.

The guns you have are fine for plinking, but Maine wildlife is known to be particuarly savage. Bring a few Smart Wool socks too. For your feet.

December 3, 2008, 04:51 PM

I've read that all firearms must be unloaded in vehicles, and we will do that. I didn't find any mention of a CCW needed to carry a rifle; the state laws are that no permit is needed. Also, I've read on the 5 round limit for hunting; but I've never hunted and we will not hunt at all, so does the 5 round rule apply to non-hunters? The law seems pretty clear, but I'm not a local. The weapons are for self-defense and plinking with the .22. We will not shoot any animals at all (hopefully) .

BTW, we're taking my '00 XJ and my brothers '03 WJ. Both lifted and customized a little bit. :)

December 3, 2008, 05:19 PM
The 590 and 30/30 for the boys and, of course, whatever the ladies want.


a 30/06 was the first thing that came to mind when i read the word "maine" but a 30/30 or 12 gauge will do equally good.

December 3, 2008, 05:49 PM
ccw would just be for hand guns.if you are walking through the woods of maine with a rifle you are hunting!If you have a maine hunting licenes then you can conceal carry without a ccw while hunting but only while hunting.

December 3, 2008, 05:55 PM
.if you are walking through the woods of maine with a rifle you are hunting!

My thoughts exactly. I think you would have a hard time convincing any game wardens or LEO you might happen to encounter that you aren't hunting with all of that hardware. Game wardens are pretty abundant.

December 3, 2008, 06:05 PM
No one mentioned money. Figure what it is going to cost then take twice as much.

December 3, 2008, 06:14 PM
Seriously, all you need is a can filled with something that makes noise. Most of the animals you are gonna encounter are more afraid of you.

I backpack a lot. If you make enough noise, less than you think, you won't have a problem.

One big thing is this. Make sure you eat away from your sleeping area. Hang your food.

Also, what animals are gonna be in season when you are there? Unless your life is threatened you better have a great reason to kill an animal.


December 3, 2008, 06:17 PM

I guess I never thought about it that way. I figured 4 city folks from CT would not appear as "hunters" would. I mean, how do you prove you're not hunting? Lack of a dead animal? I suppose if any Warden looked at us and asked questions he'd figure out in a hurry I don't know anymore about hunting than I do about nuclear engineering, which is to say nothing at all.

December 3, 2008, 06:21 PM
I did a lot of camping/hiking in Maine when I lived there. You need nothing, 'cept gasoline to cover your body in when the black flies come out.

No deet made will stop them buggers, and when you find a swarm, you;ll wish it was just a little black bear tearing you apart.

December 3, 2008, 06:27 PM
^^^ True Dat...

December 3, 2008, 06:28 PM
"Also, what animals are gonna be in season when you are there? Unless your life is threatened you better have a great reason to kill an animal."

I have no idea what animals I'm likely to encounter, hence my original question. Some of the guys above have filled me in a bit, which I appreciate.
Also, I stated the firearm(s) were to be used in self-defense and have stated on at least 3 occasions I do not want to kill ANY animal at all unless I had no other choice, kinda like when I CCW in my home state. I do not see how my thoughts/actions would be different in this case.

December 3, 2008, 06:31 PM
I think the most dangerous animal you would encounter would be a bull moose... But even then, if you make noise, you won't see them.

December 3, 2008, 06:53 PM
Well, I'll make sure to make noise and follow the advice that all you guys above gave. :)

December 3, 2008, 06:53 PM

You may be alright if they question you, I'm not really sure as I have never taken guns with me while backpacking or camping. A .22 might be easily explained for plinking and target shooting, but larger calibers may not be. Just wanted to give you a heads up. Probably the best thing to do would be in touch with the Bureau of Warden Service before your trip and ask any questions you have, I know it's a pain in the butt, but it might save you a headache during your trip. Here's a link to their site, hope it helps.

December 3, 2008, 06:55 PM

I 'm checking into that now, thanks for the link. I called the Maine State troopers in Augusta and they took info and said someone will be in contact from the "proper office". Don't know what that means, but probably the Warden people?

December 3, 2008, 06:55 PM
With all of that said, I hope you have a great trip. It's a great area up there, and yes, the black flies are that bad, napalm might be your best bet :)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 3, 2008, 06:59 PM
Good grief!

He's going camping, not on maneuvers with the Maine State Militia!

Lol, exactly.

The Deer Hunter
December 3, 2008, 08:36 PM

Nothing smaller than 20MM Vulcan, of course.

December 3, 2008, 10:27 PM
Maine is a "shall issue" state, and non-resident CCW, IIRC, is $60 for 4 yrs. Usually issued promptly, but can take up to 90 days. That solves the concealed problem, and permit holders can carry concealed in the woods without being accused of hunting. Hunting violations, real or perceived, can be expensive, especially with firearms and flashlights at night!

Much easier to carry a handgun that a longarm in a camping situation.

December 4, 2008, 12:26 AM
Understood, but I was under the impression that a long-arm would be better for a self defense situation vs a ~700lb animal. I'd gladly go through the permit process if my 686 or Ruger SA Blackhawk .357 would be sufficient for self protection. I don't know, tell me: would a .357 be adequate vs a large animal threat or would a 12GA or .308/.303/8MM be better suited? I'm not trying to flame here, I want real opinions. Thanks guys.

December 4, 2008, 12:48 AM
Bring the 50bmg in case a squirrel is feeling froggy. We have attack squirrels out here too ya know! Kidding

A 12GA with slugs is big enough medicine for almost anything as is the 308, 303 and 8mm. I personally would bring the 357 and "take your chances".

Enjoy your trip!

December 4, 2008, 12:56 AM
It sounds like a deployment. I think one long gun in the group would suffice and trade off carrying it with your buddy. If you are hiking any distance, everyone carrying their own 4-6lb weapon will get old fast.

December 4, 2008, 01:03 AM
No, really...I'm not trying to be an a$$ here......this is a new environment for me and I want to be prepared. Not any different than someone asking what would be a good carry weapon for "XYZ" environment. I was looking for an honest reply from those that have knowledge of my area of camping.

I know I need a tent. I know I need to stay warm. I know the laws. I was attempting to solicit info based upon my OP and conditions. The 'stay warm' or 'bring socks' replies don't help at all....thanks, I know that already. :rolleyes:

I really wanted info on what weapon out of my stock would be most appropriate for the conditions. Call it a threat asessment or whatever you will; I leave the house prepared every day and wanted no less for this trip. Thanks for the useful replies, I appreciate them. :D

December 4, 2008, 01:06 AM
I flew floatplanes in an out of that area in the 70's. Countless trips bringing in fisherman, folks using canoes to float the St.John and etc. Never saw anyone bring in a firearm. Never heard of anyone being molested by a bear.

The roads up that way, north of Moosehead Lake... (I'm assuming you'll go in from there) tend to be closed until sometime in May, just sayin. Most of the land in that part of Maine is owned by one of three or so paper companies. Many roads are private and restricted to paper company vehicles. Just a heads up.

December 4, 2008, 01:10 AM
It sounds like a deployment. I think one long gun in the group would suffice and trade off carrying it with your buddy. If you are hiking any distance, everyone carrying their own 4-6lb weapon will get old fast.

I've thought about this, but being we're city folk, I don't see us going really far from our site; I'm sure the ladies aren't up for it. :) I just want something that will be effective should an errant animal come upon us and pose a threat. Like I've said 100 times, I'm not looking for trouble, but I want to be ready in case trouble finds us. :)

December 4, 2008, 07:11 AM

Just another heads up, if you do decide to do some shooting up there, plinking or whatever, just be very sure there are no other camp sites around you. I'm sure you're aware of that and I'm not trying to be condescending, but a lot of remote camping areas around here look as though though they're single sites out in the middle of nowhere, but there are usually multiple sights if there's one, even though it might not look like.

December 4, 2008, 08:53 AM
Man has no natural predators in the Maine woods, save for other men (and that is such a rarity as to be not worth carrying for, in my opinion). Plan accordingly.

You are going to have a hard time arguing with the game warden that you shot a cow moose or sow bear with young in self defense. Don't do it. You are in the animals' territory and you have a legal and ethical duty to retreat, which will get an angry bear or moose off your case just finely, anyway, and nobody gets hurt.

December 4, 2008, 04:16 PM
Man has no natural predators in the Maine woods

My co-worker is an avid deer hunter and frequently hunts with his dad.

During their pre-season scouting they put up thermal sensor cameras in locations where they are considering putting their tree stands.

About two months ago, his dad went out after work by himself to check the camera and as dusk closed in started to hear the yoots. Within 10 min. or so, he found himself in the middle of at least 20, if not more, yoots howling it up all around him. He couldn't see a one and yet could tell they were close.

Poor guy almost had a heart attack running out of the woods to his truck, as he was unarmed.

My co-worker says he never goes in the woods without some type of firearm and had told his dad that many times. His dad now agrees.

There are also black bear, but they are more afraid of you than you are them.

And despite what you read on the net and what the "official" answer is by the DNR, there are mountain lions in both Maine and NH. The DNR doessn't want any proof of it, because the don't want to have to regulate them as a protected species. If they officially don't exist in Maine, then they don't have to do anything.

Maine is an open carry state. I'd get a holster to carry a side arm in the open.

If your traipsin around with a rifle and don't have a hunting liscence you might have to do some tap dancing explaining yourself to a forrest ranger, but doubt you'd really have a problem.

Don't carry concealed or carry an uncased handgun in your car unless you have either a Maine non-res. ccw or make sure your states ccw has reciprocity with Maine.

Call up the Maine State Police if you have any questions. They've always been very helpfull to me and will give you the straight scoop.

Under NO circumstances is it ever legal to have a loaded long gun in your vehicle in Maine. You must unload your rifle or shotgun prior to putting it in your car.

Even though many Mass Holes have infiltrated the south in search of affordable housing and have turned both states into blue clollumn. They are still sportsman's states as far as guns go. Both ME and NH have very friendly gun laws...well codified in their respective state constitutions (see my sig. line).

Don't forget the #1 threat to your health and safety while up there in the spring............mosquitos and black flies!

Deep woods off with deet is your friend.

December 4, 2008, 08:24 PM
Really funny thread... Really the only need of a gun is for man in the woods in Maine. If i were you I would open carry a .22 which would be good enough, to stop more than one goon, should you meet one.

Like others I have lived in NH almost all my life, and I hunt. I have camped in Maine off the beaten path many times.

Since you just got back... You were not winta' camping. this is still late fall.

In winter we measure snow in feet, and the temps can be down around -40 pretty easy.

I have seen one catamount one time in my life and it was in my neighbors garbage on his porch. Bears commonly tore the window mounted bird seed trays off my window sill, just to piss of the window grazing moose.

Really, moose would eat sunflower seeds right out of my window tray.

I lived in a Tee Pee for 3 total years and some days and one year was illegally in NH, because i was hurt bad and down on my luck. One full year and saw -50 in winter then with 5 feet of snow.

I also was and still am a winter hiker, and do this both modern and primitive.. Pre 1840.

Walking around in the woods as has been said with a long arm means you are hunting, whether or not you are hunting. You probably could get away with a small .22 hand gun as a plinker. Not many 2 leggeds will want to bother you even with just that.

The 2 Jeeps and the long guns bit isn't going to work out at all because no long guns can be loaded in a vehical, Not for anyone other than LEO. And I guess back roading is the same deal, So every time you want to drive you gotta unload the gun and don't even dare lean a loaded long gun against any vehical. That was said too, so just re-enforcing that tid bit of wise comentary.

No wild animals are going to bother you, and the bears that bug people are park bears, where they have become accustomed to human foods.

April May and June the black flies are just killer. Ticks ain't much better, and the skeeters are always fun.... bring DEET

As to the 'females' Ho Ho Ho. My wife prefers the K-98 in 8mm with Turk Ammo noted to be a smidegen HOT... She can fire off about 60 rnds in a couple hours time no problem.. Pure hell on paper she is.. Ain't a thing left of that x ring either.

December 4, 2008, 10:04 PM
While dangers in ME woods are minimal, they do exist. I was confronted in my yard by an agressive bear that I was trying to convince to leave. A rubber slug did convince him- hasn't been back since.

My neighbor (1/2 mile away), a ME trooper, recently had a rabid skunk kill another skunk on his front deck. That skunk was living in a culvert on our road. My wife and I often walk our dog on our road past the skunk's former home.

The Northwoods Sporting Journal recently had an article where one of its editorial writers encountered a moose on the snowmobile trail twice on the same trip. The moose didn't charge, but did block his way twice, and could have easily charged.

Several black bear attacks in the U.S. and Canada have been documented this (and in the past) year, more than one resulting in death. Google bear attacks. ME has between 20 and 30,000 black bears, depending on who you ask.

Another neighbor has twice seen a mountain lion and I and yet another have heard its scream on two occasions.

Coyotes abound in ME- including the occasional rabid one.

All of the above should NOT make one afraid of the wilderness- their presence, in IMO, adds to the experience (except for rabies!). I enjoy knowing that at any moment I might spot a moose, deer, bear, or whatever.

My sidearm helps to assure that any negative experience will be decided in my favor! A friend who is a forester for one of the larger paper companies in ME has started carrying a sidearm after some recent experiences.

Those with much more experience and knowledge than I state that a 357, with heavy jacketed (or preferably hard cast) bullets will suffice for anything in the ME woods. I alternate between the 357 and 44 Mag calibers and feel comfortable with either.

December 5, 2008, 01:22 AM
Thank you, Mountie......that was exactly the info I was looking for. I am thinking that based upon the helpful replies here, I may just open carry the Smith 686 and bring along the Walther G-22 for plinking, bearing in mind and obeying the 'un-loaded rifle in the car laws'.

December 5, 2008, 09:50 AM
The moose didn't charge, but did block his way twice, and could have easily charged.

We were sledding from Jackman to the Pittston Farm (love that all you can eat dinner buffet) for an overnight in a pretty good sized group (8 sleds) and came upon a Bull Moose on a narrow stretch of trail. He showed no interest in us, but also showed no interest in moving off of the trail for us, as the snow was really deep off of the hard packed trail. Worse part was that we missed the buffet! They were nice enough to save sandwiches for us though. Took quite a while to thaw out by the fire.

What do you do? Stop and wait. No way I was going to try to pass him on that narrow trail.

Eventually he tromped off into the woods. But he took his sweet time.

At no time did we fee threatened. But we didn't get to close either.

It is awesome country up there. You can easilly get into places where the neares "civilization" is a LONG ways away.

I won't sled up in those remote regions unless I'm in a group, so we could tow out a dead slead, or at least ride 2-up and get all the people out. Walking 20 miles to the nearest road isn't my idea of fun.

On another overnight sledding trip from Greenville up to the Pittston farm , we got a late start, had some sled problems and had to detour aroung a closed trail. After the sun went down, it got wicked COLD. My BIL has a low windshield on his "hot rod" sled, and he was covered with ice when we got in. We were getting a little worried that we would take a wrong turn in the dark and get lost, and in fact, we came accross a guy who had got seperated from his partner, and was backtracking to look for him. It was sobering to realize that walking out of those woods in the sub zero dark was no sure thing.

Stick with the two jeep plan and bring tow straps.

Have a ball.

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