7.62x54r and 7.62x39 bullets and sources.


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aliveisalive
December 4, 2008, 02:40 PM
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with loading the lead 7.62x39 bullets that grafs carries. Also, where would i be able to get the loading data for these bullets? I mostly just 'blast' with my saiga, so these seem like they might make a good, low recoil round to plink with.

Second, in regards to higher quality 7.62x39, what bullets are you guys using? I want to load some better rounds for when i feel like seeing what my saiga really can do.

Lastly, wideners has hand pulled 54r bullets, at a nice price. Anyone use these? the minimum is 500 but they look pretty nice so i will give them a try.

And just for kicks, has anyone seen a better deal on 62gr .224 bullets then the privi ones from grafs?

Thanks for the help,

brian

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fguffey
December 4, 2008, 06:03 PM
aliveisalive, friends, owner and his advisor came over with a 7.62x39, a small ring Mauser with the 7.62X39 chambered barrel, one was thinking it was a good way to blast away with cheap ammo, then a scope was added and one thing led to another, then they went for accuracy, then they called me, I gave them some new RP cases loaned them the dies, checked the fired cases for head space and the length of the throat (no way to get there with a light bullet) 10 inch groups at 100 years was it with cheap ammo, even with better bullets in .310 and .311, nothing helped, then they found a long heavy bullet (like the 180 grain 303RN-Sp) that could be seated out to within .030 thousands of the lands, now the groups are 1.5 inch at 100 yards, cheap blasting got old fast, now the owner wants to add more powder, the advisor is happy with the results.

F. Guffey

fireflyfather
December 4, 2008, 06:38 PM
If you want to load cast bullets in that cartridge, Lee makes two excellent molds just for that (designed by Ed Harris). Those are 160 grains each. They also have a 180 grain bullet mold that is longer, though that is more for the Enfield, Mosin, or Arisaka.

Cast your own. Cheaper after the first couple thousand rounds if you don't count your time.

tribbles
December 4, 2008, 10:31 PM
Lastly, wideners has hand pulled 54r bullets, at a nice price. Anyone use these? the minimum is 500 but they look pretty nice so i will give them a try.

I bought some of those but haven't had a chance to load 'em up yet. They look all right, though, no pull marks on 'em as far as I can see.

rfwobbly
December 5, 2008, 01:21 AM
If the 7.62x54R is for a Mosin-Nagant then you best slug the barrel first before ordering. The Russian rifles are notorious for having bores from .309 to .313. Hate to see you order 1000 bullets you couldn't shoot.

ArchAngelCD
December 5, 2008, 02:57 AM
Even though those 147gr bullets are a good weight for the 7.62X54R round I'm not sure you will be happy with them when loading the 7.62X39mm round. That's a little heavy for the AK and the barrel might not be able to stabilize the bullets.

Marlin 45 carbine
December 5, 2008, 11:36 AM
last I checked (bought another 500 then too) Graf's still had the Hornady .310 flat base 123gr VMax slug. this shoots great in my Mini30. evidently it's been discontinued by Hornady so get them while you can. I wish they were made in 150 gr wieght it would be the perfect south-eastern deer slug. they do good now I use them for doe tags. apprehensive about useing for a big buck that may present a quartering away shot though.

Deer Hunter
December 5, 2008, 12:12 PM
Could you use 7.7 Jap bullets? They are .311. That is, if your bore allows for it.

fireflyfather
December 5, 2008, 01:12 PM
Deer hunter: Those would probably also be too heavy for the 7.62x39. For the mosin, they would be just fine. (.303 brit, 7.62x54R and 7.7Jap bullets are usually interchangeable).

Having said that, those Lee molds I mentioned earlier drop at 155 or 160 grains. I've been able to get 2-4 MOA out of them using Red Dot and a rifle with loose sights. I'm sure with the better sights it will be closer to 1-2 MOA. So, I don't see a problem with 147 grain jacketed bullets, provided you use a fast powder (13 grains of red dot, etc). Ed Harris claims that regular .30 cal .308 jacketed bullets work ok in Mosins/etc IF you use a fast powder.

R.W.Dale
December 5, 2008, 02:27 PM
Second, in regards to higher quality 7.62x39, what bullets are you guys using? I want to load some better rounds for when i feel like seeing what my saiga really can do.


I don't even bother with anything other than .308 diameter bullets for my high quality loads for my.310" barreled guns. The 125grn Nosler B-tip is a must try 7.62x39mm bullet, as are the 125grn speer TNT HP's. For close in hunting my AR really likes the Sierra 170grn FP 30-30 bullet loaded to 1950fps with a charge of h335

aliveisalive
December 5, 2008, 02:52 PM
Sure hope everyone gets me money for christmas this year, because i have alot of bullets to buy and alot of [hopefully] exciting experimenting to do =DD

Deer Hunter
December 5, 2008, 04:17 PM
Midway has numerous bullet selections in weights from 108-200 grain in that diameter.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=1&categoryId=7561&categoryString=9315***652***19785***9016***

SSN Vet
December 5, 2008, 04:47 PM
My 16" Saiga slugs at .312" at the muzzle....

I get good results form both Win and Fed factory ammo and these bullets are .311"

I get nearly as good performance from the Golden West Brass 125 gr. FMJ bullet (also .311") but it is a pita to get oal consistant and needs to be crimped right at the 'dent' (can't really call it a cannalure) or the bullet will set back with little effort.

Surprisingly, I have not gotten good performanc from the Hornady 123 gr. JSP, which is a .310 bullet.

I loaded and shot one test round or the Hornady 150gr JSP for .303 Brit, which is a .312 bullet. This is a long bullet and the ogee is such that you have to seat it deep in the case to feed in your mags. The cannalure is way burried, but I gave them a light crimp (LFCD) on the smooth surface and that combined with the neck tension from the larger bullet held them put.
The results were very dissapoining, but I haven't given up on this one. Need to experiment more.

Wolf MC shoots pretty well, but not as well as the Win/Fed factory or the GWB fmjs. The muzzle flash on the Wolf is much greater, and I like to shoot what I load. Or at least get some reloadable brass out of the deal.

All my jacketed reloads have been with 1680. This is reported to be THEE x39 powder, but I'm not so convinced.

I cast WDWWs with the 155-312-2R Lee mould and seat the Hornady gas check with a .311 Lee sizer and then pan lube w/ 50/50 or speed green.

See my post here...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367973&highlight=saiga+wdww+cast+lee
and here....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=384617&highlight=saiga+wdww+cast+lee

You can see from all the responses I got, that there is a huge amount of interest in casting for x39!

Results haven't been great. I've been trying to get the Lee .314 die, as I think sizing is the issue. The bullets drop right at .312, so I'd like to use the .314 die to mount the check and hopefully not size the bullet. Have had trouble finding this die, however.

More work to do on the cast load.

aliveisalive
December 5, 2008, 05:48 PM
I am going to purchase 500 rounds of the .311 147 grain bullets. I dont even have dies for x39 yet, but i will try them in the 54r. I am still collecting equipment and components, and i figure even if they dont work well in either gun the practice and knowledge ill get from the 40 bucks will be worth it anyway.

And on the topic of reloading, placing another order with cabelas for their tumbler kit =]

And i thought simply owning rifles had me wanting accessories... theres so much you can buy for reloading!

edit - hello brass!
http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=1074&dir=278|282|286|384

RyanM
December 5, 2008, 06:31 PM
I am going to purchase 500 rounds of the .311 147 grain bullets. I dont even have dies for x39 yet, but i will try them in the 54r. I am still collecting equipment and components, and i figure even if they dont work well in either gun the practice and knowledge ill get from the 40 bucks will be worth it anyway.

Be real careful about powders if you try loading those in x39. The AK gas system is about as touchy as the Garand's, if you ask me. Too heavy a bullet and/or too slow a powder, and something will break. The AK gas system is a pretty "violent" one (it's designed to be, for reliability), and putting too much gas in can really cause problems. Don't know if there's any reloading data specifically for AK type rifles, for that heavy of a bullet.

I would guess that you'd want to use a faster burning powder than you'd use under a 122-125 gr bullet.

fireflyfather
December 5, 2008, 08:40 PM
If you're using an undersize jacketed bullet, fast powder may disrupt the base a little more and at least partially obdurate the bore. Ed Harris theorized about this, but it is hard to say if it holds true. Now you guys got me wanting to buy some .308 bullets and try them in my mosin.

Clark
December 6, 2008, 12:37 AM
I hunted with an old guy this year that bought a 91/30 at Sears for $7 when he was a kid.

So after we shot lots of other deer and antelope, he put away his Weatherby and got out an old 91/30 with a Fajen stock they used to make, stalked a mule doe in the sage, and shot it in the head. He swears by the Sierra 180 gr pro hunter
http://www.sierrabullets.com/bulletart/2310.gif
311 dia. 180 gr. SPT Pro-Hunter 2310 Rifle

He puts enough IMR4350 behind it to get 2600 fps

Shanghai McCoy
December 6, 2008, 03:15 PM
I have heard that the .308 bullets are best for the Mini-30s and have had pretty good luck in the past but lost my load data. Anyone out there loading for the Mini 30?

moonzapa
December 6, 2008, 09:35 PM
I've got a 581XXXXX series Ruger Mini Thirty and have been feverishly reloading different powders and bullet combinations for it. I suggest you start with Speer's .308 125 Gr TNT HP bullet, 24.5 gr. Accurate 1680 powder, Winchester WLR Primer, Winchester Brass. I have been trimming the brass using a Lee handheld trimmer which seems to work fine. You should also look into crimping your reloads. Lee makes a good factory crimping die.

If you are going to reload your mini thirty, you may want to also look into getting a tuneable gas block. (ASI) I installed one this morning and had excellent results. I set the gas block screw so that the spent casings were being thrown less than 3-feet away. Accuracy did not suffer, and as a matter of fact it actually seemed to improve. I was able to shoot the heart out of a 2" bullseye target at 50 yards with open sights. The group opened up after ten rounds when the barrel began to get hot.

There are many threads and replys in THR that address loads for the Mini Thirty. I got a good start from some very helpful folks in THR. You should not expect 6mm BR accuracy from the Mini Thirty, if you are, you will be disappointed. (MOA accuracy is my goal with the Mini Thirty)
I love mine and enjoy the challenge of working up good loads for it.

Happy shooting!

Hairballusmaximus
December 7, 2008, 05:43 AM
For those of you shooting the Mini-30: This rifle has a .308 dia bore and the use of .310-.311 bullets can create extremely high pressures. Also be warned that alot of the cheap imported ammo(Wolf Classic etc) use a COPPER COATED STEEL bullet and the coating can be thin enough to allow the steel bullet to contact the barrel dramatically shortening barrel life and creating excess heat+pressure.

Hairballusmaximus
December 7, 2008, 05:48 AM
AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!! Double post!!

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2008, 12:22 PM
For those of you shooting the Mini-30: This rifle has a .308 dia bore and the use of .310-.311 bullets can create extremely high pressures. Also be warned that alot of the cheap imported ammo(Wolf Classic etc) use a COPPER COATED STEEL bullet and the coating can be thin enough to allow the steel bullet to contact the barrel dramatically shortening barrel life and creating excess heat+pressure.

I get really tired of correcting these gun rag fueled 7.62x39mm MYTHS:banghead:

Only the very very first batches of Mini 30's have .308 bores anything made since the early 90's have a "proper" bore diameter, and even those have a tapered throat to accomidate larher .310 bullets

The steel jackets used on some imported ammo are so much softer than a chromemoly stainless bbls if you have wear issues you must be shooting it in a firearm from the 19th century

aliveisalive
December 7, 2008, 07:22 PM
I think im going to purchase either bl(c)2 or h335 and go from there. I'll be trying it in .223, x39, and x54. Going to start with the minimum and work up, see if i cant get some decent loads going.

Hairballusmaximus
December 7, 2008, 08:50 PM
Hey krochus,sorry about making you tired. I would have thought if the issue had been corrected my manuals would have stated so. I got the info from a 2000 Hornady manual. If its not an issue, then great I am glad to know it.

As far as soft steel goes, until its as soft or softer than copper I still wont shoot it. But it shouldnt be an issue unless youhave a really tight bore anyway.

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 08:58 PM
Could you use 7.7 Jap bullets? They are .311. That is, if your bore allows for it.

The proper Russian bore size is .311, making a .311 the closest match for any Russian gun. A lot of reloaders use .308 bullets, which is far from optimal.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2008, 09:17 PM
The proper Russian bore size is .311, making a .311 the closest match for any Russian gun. A lot of reloaders use .308 bullets, which is far from optimal.


Says you. I get to use vastly superior projectiles that cost less and shoot every bit as well. I call that a win win.


The proper bore size is .310 so one way you're using bullets that are .001 oversized, the other way you shoot bullets that are .002 undersized.
NEITHER are enough to matter in the slightest.

Now how much your particular rifle's vary from this is another matter entirely, only slugging your bore will tell.

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