Help with class III weapons stats used in crime


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SsevenN
December 5, 2008, 05:15 PM
I've got a guy at work who's convinced there are criminals running around with fully automatic AKs. mostly because he read it in the paper.

I've been looking all over FBI.gov for that statistics on class III weapons used in crime an cannot find it? can someone please provide a link? I would love to break this guys argument in half.

thanks,
7

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PTK
December 5, 2008, 05:18 PM
Very, very, VERY uncommon. Regarding registered arms, I'm only aware of two cases where NFA items were used.

And the problem is, if they're not registered, how will they be known...?

SsevenN
December 5, 2008, 05:19 PM
Yeah I know it's very uncommon, but he won't believe me.

Since it IS so rare, I can't dig up the data. But I SWEAR i've seen it posted before, and just can't pull it out of a search.

GE-Mini-Gun
December 5, 2008, 05:46 PM
I can only think of 2 crimes that were committed with registered gun (legal). One was by a police officer (Roger Waller) in Ohio and the other by a Dr, also from Ohio (Dr. Shou Chao Ho), the funny thing about both of these…it was a MAC in both cases. As mentioned, the guns used in the Hollywood bank robbery were illegally converted.

Crunker1337
December 5, 2008, 06:18 PM
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
- Crime Involving Illegally Owned Machine Guns

Everything is cited for your convenience.

HK G3
December 5, 2008, 11:01 PM
This story: http://members.cox.net/arporro/photos/Shooting.pdf was just fascinating to read.

It's just incredible to me that someone like Dr. Ho can exist in real life - he seems to be the stuff of a cheesy movie.

HeavenlySword
December 6, 2008, 12:44 AM
These people with last name Ho are giving us asians, and gun owners/gun rights supporters a bad image!

Beagle-zebub
December 6, 2008, 01:21 AM
I would imagine the overwhelming majority of them would be shotguns and rifles sawed to below legal length.

RyanM
December 6, 2008, 01:27 AM
AKs with the disconnector filed off, and then tweaked so that they successfully slam-fire (filing the firing pin to a point is supposed to help), probably are very common among gangsters. Missing fingers and eyes too, I bet.

It's also not that hard to whip up an illegal "lightning link."

Why would you be assuming criminals would use legally registered machine guns? They don't follow any of the other gun control laws, do they?

Beagle-zebub
December 6, 2008, 01:43 AM
I'd be willing to bet that illegally modified AR15s and AKs are rare. They are out of the normal criminal price-range, for one thing, and such modifying requires firearms knowledge well beyond that which most criminals seem to have--these are, after all, the guys that buy the pot-metal masterpieces when superior commie surplus pistols have been only a bit more expensive.

The price of a junky Century build is pretty high if you have to throw it the river after its first use.

TAB
December 6, 2008, 01:48 AM
When CA was trying to ban AW, the then director of investagations( or something like) of a either the LA county sherrifs or LAPD. said is his 20+ years exp of running the department he had never seen a modifed AR or AK. The video is on youtube of him making that statement.

Double Naught Spy
December 6, 2008, 08:47 AM
What video?
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The guncite link seems woefully out of date. It says it was last updated in 2005, but seems to have missed incidents from before and after that time.

Other (definite and alleged) incidents, still not many, but certainly a lot more than claimed on guncite...

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/crimestoppers/news-article.aspx?storyid=18784

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/15/AR2006071500909.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081008/NEWS0107/310080018/0/NEWS01

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2008/08/two-armed-men-u.html

This one was to close me and ended up being the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back in getting local PDs AR15s...
http://cbs11tv.com/local/richardson.police.officers.2.755399.html

video of the this incident...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po41dsDbw-Q

Ieyasu
December 6, 2008, 10:21 PM
The guncite link seems woefully out of date. It says it was last updated in 2005, but seems to have missed incidents from before and after that time.

Other (definite and alleged) incidents, still not many, but certainly a lot more than claimed on guncite...

Not sure what you mean by that. There is one section claiming two incidents of homicide with legally owned full-auto weapons. There is another section which clearly has no intention of citing all incidents of illegal use of illegally owned full-auto weapons. Rather, that section is citing some meager evidence estimating homicides with full-auto weapons to be less than 1%.

danweasel
December 6, 2008, 10:54 PM
If someone was rich enough to be able to afford registered, full auto weapons why would they need to use them to commit crimes?

dcal
December 7, 2008, 12:08 AM
First one that popped into my mind was North Hollywood Bank Shootout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVWp4tHjfZY).

Beagle-zebub
December 7, 2008, 12:18 AM
Well, the video you posted of Texas has a comment on it to the effect that it was Zetas they were chasing, which means Mexican nationals with access to military weapons on that side of the border.

subknave
December 7, 2008, 11:16 AM
It isn't really all that hard to convert an AK if you have the full auto parts from a parts kit. About all you need to do, I'm told, is drill a couple holes in the receiver for attaching the full auto parts. Its knowing where to drill the holes thats the problem. It would require quite a bit of precision to get the timing right.

I would imagine if it weren't for the 1986 machinegun ban there would be a lot more registered machineguns out there.

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