Forgot my permit


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BULLSI
December 6, 2008, 03:05 AM
Well I carried and had forgotten my permit twice. Both being heading out the door and late for work and forgot my wallet which has my ccw permit in it. This doesnt happen to much and I cant really explain it human error I guess. It is like locking your keys in the car didnt want it to happen but there you are kind of thing. In this post illegal yes I know.

The first time I had to go to the police station to take care of something before I went to work. Yes I crapped my pants when I got there I mean how stupid is this playing out right. The police station is about a half mile from my house. So I left the gun in the car of course and took care of business since I was there and then went straight home to get my wallet (didnt want to mess with the gun in the parking lot of a police station so didnt put it in the back of the truck or anything else just went home to get my permit). This was my first ccw mistake when I first got it and here I am in this situation what do I do now freaking out what do I do what do I do. Well I need my permit so I went home and got it. Back to legal.

Second time earlier this week made it the twenty miles to work before I realized I didn't have my wallet with me. Again oh crap I did it again. So before going home I wrapped the gun in plastic bags snowing here in Michigan and put the gun in the back of the truck bed and ammo in the cab.

In Michigan it is legal to carry a firearm if it is in a locked container if you drive a vehicle that doesn't have a trunk and separated from the ammo. My glove box I found out doesn't lock and I didn't have a lockable container so that is why I put it in the bags and then put the gun in the bed separated from the ammo in the cab.

Ok I realize my screw up and I don't plan on making this a daily thing. I do have a few questions though.

1. Would a cable lock be considered a lockable container in a situation like this? I think it would be ok but don't know if it is actually legal in MI. to do this. It would be easier to keep in the truck, cheaper etc.

2. On the way home that night if I would have gotten pulled over by the police the best I could have done was explain that I didn't have my license with me but would have told him my drivers license number as I know that. The leo would know that I have a ccw permit as soon as he ran my plate. In MI. we have to give our ID and ccw permit and immediately tell the officer we are carrying if we are actually carrying. Was I carry at that moment and say that I have a gun in the bed of the truck or do I say that I am not carrying as the gun was in the bed of the truck and not in my possession or immediate reach?

3. Lets say that the cable lock is legal or I have it in a locked container and I have it in the cab of the truck am I carrying. I dont want to think that I am not carrying and not produce my permit and say so in this situation (if I get pulled over). I guess I dont know the legal definition of carry in relation to my ccw. I mean I know when I am, loaded gun on my side and all, at what point am I not. Just want to stay out of trouble not looking for it.

Sorry for the long post TIA.

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mcdonl
December 6, 2008, 06:23 AM
Bullsi... I do not have a CCW permit yet, but I can give you some advice as I have done the same thing you are describing a bunch of times... left without my wallet. I now have a routine... I walk through the door at the end of the day, puy my phone, wallet, ID card, etc... all in the same place, and then put it on again in the morning. Makes it routine so you do not have to think about it.

When I bought my first handgun here in Maine... recently... I called the state police and asked the rules about transporting the gun in my vehicle... there were two options.... (Well three if i had a CCW....) 1)store it in a compartment of the vehicle not accessable to me and/or

2) it needed to be in a manner that it could not be fired... cylinder out, or clip not loaded, etc....

Hope this helps, and I hope no one takes offence to a newbie offering advice.

Leroy

Sinixstar
December 6, 2008, 06:52 AM
What do you use for concealed carry? What kind of Holster? Does it have somewhere that you could potentially store the permit in/on the holster?

This would pretty much solve this problem, as if you grab the holster, you're grabbing gun + permit at the same time.

michiganfan
December 6, 2008, 06:53 AM
go to www.migunowners.org and post

The Bushmaster
December 6, 2008, 11:08 AM
Put your car keys under your wallet at night and stop forgetting your wallet.

Ringer
December 6, 2008, 11:36 AM
Where are you getting this info about the locked container? A locked container does not make it legal to carry a handgun in your car (assuming no CPL). The only requirement for a locked container I'm aware of is a CPL holder with some blood alcohol content must lock the gun in the trunk or in a locked glove box or container in the passenger compartment. Anyway the bed of your truck may be out of reach but it's not locked.

For a non CPL holder tranporting a gun it must be in the trunk or if no trunk in the passenger compartment but unaccessable. No need to be in a locked container. Must also be transporting for some lawful purpose such as going to the range, shop for repair etc... Oh and it must be registered to you.

Bottom line if you are carrying without your permit there is really nothing you can do to make it legal as it's required to have it with you at all times. Best thing to do would be to secure the gun best you can and get your permit ASAP.....to become legal.

As far as question number 3 if you have a gun in the car, locked or not you are required to inform LEO. Personally I inform at all times, even if I'm not carrying that way when they find out I have a CPL there is no question.

Information for CPL Holders (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html#INFORMATION_FOR_CPL_HOLDERS)

FAQs (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html)

7.62X25mm
December 6, 2008, 02:53 PM
Get your act together on your wallet! You're pretty much "unlawful" to walk around without one -- ID, CCW, anything else that gets you access to stuff, like bank cards, money . . .

If you can remember your gun and your car keys. You can manage to remember your wallet. C'mon! Pay attention!

BULLSI
December 6, 2008, 03:26 PM
Ringer wrote:For a non CPL holder tranporting a gun it must be in the trunk or if no trunk in the passenger compartment but unaccessable. No need to be in a locked container. Must also be transporting for some lawful purpose such as going to the range, shop for repair etc... Oh and it must be registered to you.


From what you say and from what I was doing the situation I was in that was what I was thinking like a noncpl holder and put it in the bed of the truck to get it home. All my guns are registered to me.

Yes I am not going to be forgetting my permit anytime soon ever to be exact. I dont think attaching it to a holster would be a good idea as I have no plans on reaching for it attached to a holster if I ever get pulled over.

thanks for the links.

Ringer
December 6, 2008, 04:20 PM
BULLSI

I agree keeping the permit with the holster is not a good idea.

Only reason I mention the "registered to you" part is that as a CPL holder you can possess/carry a handgun that is registered to someone else. As a non CPL holder you cannot possess someone else's pistol.

BULLSI
December 6, 2008, 06:37 PM
Hey ringer

I just went to that migunowner site. Second post I read was about a new law in January. Do you have a link to that. I think someone posted after the first week of January 09 we dont have to get the handguns safety inspected registered??

I have to register all my guns dont I. All I have is a few handguns. All are registered. Do I have to register a shotgun ar 15 type or a hunting rifle. I dont own any of this type but maybe in the future. I dont know.

Also since I have a ccw permit do you know if I can carry two guns in MI. I cant find that out anywhere.

And if I may ask when I go shoot can I just put all my guns in the truck. What would be legal to take them all to go shoot them.

Thanks

Loomis
December 6, 2008, 06:44 PM
I'm confused.

Where I am, a permit to carry is only a silly slip of paper, no ID on it, no photo. You don't need it on your person to carry. If a cop needs to know if you are permitted to carry, he's supposed to call the sherrif's office and check their list. He's supposed to do this regardless wether you have the silly slip of paper on you or not.

Ringer
December 6, 2008, 07:29 PM
BULLSI

I'm by far no expert on these matters but here is what I think know. The new Bills eliminate the inspection, that is all. Handguns would still need to be registered by returning the permit and/or record of sale documents in person or by mail.

House Bill 4490 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2007-2008/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2007-SFA-4490-F.pdf)

House Bill 4491 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1h5zp245gi2r1cz2a5axssez))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2007-HB-4491)

Senate Bill 370 (http://legislature.mi.gov/documents/2007-2008/billanalysis/House/pdf/2007-HLA-0370-5.pdf)

You have to register all handguns. You do not have to register shotguns and rifles. Unless due to their specification in length they are technically considered a handgun.

There is no specification as to the number of handguns you can carry so you should be OK carrying two.

Since you have a CPL you should be able to transport your handguns to the range any way you like in your truck. (Cased and unloaded is probably a good idea though for the ones you are not carrying).

If you do obtain a long gun you CPL has no bearing on that. It would need to be cased, unloaded and out of reach, but not in the bed or your truck if it is an open bed. You can only have the long gun in the vehicle for legal purpose such as going to the range. Unfortunately you can't legally keep one in your truck or in the trunk of a car on a regular daily basis.

Again, no expert, just my interpretations.



Loomis
In Michigan you are required to have your CPL with you anytime you are carrying a handgun. Also if you have an encounter with LEO you are required to inform them if you are carrying.

BULLSI
December 6, 2008, 08:15 PM
ok thanks for the help

ServiceSoon
December 7, 2008, 11:24 AM
I made a copy of my LTC and store it in the glove box of all of the cars I drive.

BULLSI
December 7, 2008, 03:54 PM
Is that legal?? Maybe better than not haveing anything but I would think that you need the actual permit.

vintage68
December 7, 2008, 04:57 PM
Just out of curiosity, what is the penalty generally if you're caught carrying without a permit? Not in obvious liberal places like New York city or California, but other more moderate states?

Is it a felony, gross misdemeanor, or what?

PressCheck
December 7, 2008, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE][Just out of curiosity, what is the penalty generally if you're caught carrying without a permit? Not in obvious liberal places like New York city or California, but other more moderate states?

Is it a felony, gross misdemeanor, or what?/QUOTE]

COULD GO EITHER WAY. IT'S CALLED A "WOBBLER."

ServiceSoon
December 7, 2008, 06:11 PM
Is that legal?? Maybe better than not haveing anything but I would think that you need the actual permit.IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery Sec. 1.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.Which is uniform with drivers licenses...
IC 9-24-13-3
Possession and display of licenses and permits
Sec. 3. An individual holding a permit or license issued under this article must have the permit or license in the individual's immediate possession when driving or operating a motor vehicle. The permittee or licensee shall display the license or permit upon demand of a court or a police officer authorized by law to enforce motor vehicle rules.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.12.Of course the exception...
IC 9-24-13-6
Validity of licenses and permits; burden of proof; production of evidence
Sec. 6. (a) Subject to subsection (b), in a proceeding to enforce

section 3 of this chapter, the burden is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant had been issued a driving license or permit that was valid at the time of the alleged violation.
(b) A person may not be convicted of violating section 3 of this chapter if the person, within five (5) days from the time of apprehension, produces to the apprehending officer or headquarters of the apprehending officer satisfactory evidence of a permit or license issued to the person that was valid at the time of the person's apprehension.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.12.

franconialocal
December 7, 2008, 10:07 PM
From an LEO perspective.....

1. My disclaimer: I work in New Hampshire, so I'm not about to speculate on how "other states do it".

2. This is MY OPINION/DISCRETION ONLY and how I operate on duty....not to represent every LEO in NH or my PD for that matter.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way.....if I pulled someone over and they were straight with me and said "Hey, I'm carrying legally....but I forgot my permit at home!!!".....generally my answer would be to take all the info down, release them on a hand summons (effectively "charging" them with a crime but not taking them into custody, bailing them out, cuffs, prints, etc.), first offense being a violation level in N.H. (considered a "pseudo-crime"), and I would release them with a court date for trial WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that if they came and saw me at the PD within....oh....say....48 hrs. I would basically make the charge go away and not carry on with it. Some PD's may not have that luxury (???). Of course they would get the mandatory slap on the wrist but hopefully it will be a learning process!!:banghead:

X-Rap
December 7, 2008, 10:22 PM
I would just get one of those shiny gold badges that say concealed weapons permit on it and everything will be cool:scrutiny::rolleyes:

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