*Whew* Glad that was at the range. . .


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WardenWolf
December 6, 2008, 06:54 PM
So I went to the range today, and took my Ruger P90 .45. This is the gun I always keep in my car for self-defense. I always keep it loaded and decocked with a round chambered (single/double; legal to keep it this way in Arizona).

I get to the range, get set up, and pull my P90 out to start shooting. Safety off, taking the first shot double action. . . *Click*. I just stood there with this look of horror. I try again. No go. First round in my gun, the one that was always in the chamber ready to go, the one that I would have been counting on in an emergency, is a complete dud.

After ejecting that round, the rest of the clip shot flawlessly. Now, I don't over-oil my guns. There's no way that oil could have killed the primer. I just had a bad round. The round was a Remington UMC yellow box cartridge.

There is NOTHING like the realization that the round you'd been counting on for over 2 years was completely dead.

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blkbrd666
December 6, 2008, 07:06 PM
I would chalk the experience up as good training...now you know not to do this again:

I just stood there with this look of horror.

Mad Magyar
December 6, 2008, 07:07 PM
There is NOTHING like the realization that the round you'd been counting on for over 2 years was completely dead.

Long time between trips to the range for your PD. However, you did the right thing racking for another shot. I've seen many just look bewildered for a long time before initiating the "slap-rack-bang"....:)

Claude Clay
December 6, 2008, 07:08 PM
luck, as it is--of the draw :scrutiny:
though yellow box may not be the best; still 2 years to have not fired your SD gun is a l o n g time. every 6 months at least will cut your exposure to misfires by 75%. :D good luck.

WardenWolf
December 6, 2008, 07:19 PM
I normally shoot .45-framed pistols, so I get plenty of practice even if I don't use that specific gun. For all intents and purposes, it's like my father's Colt Combat Commander (which I shoot fairly regularly), just with a lighter recoil.

And yes, I know the slap, rack drill. However, I didn't do it because of the risk of a delayed reaction. It seems .45-caliber bullets, in particular, have a reputation for extended hangfires. Instead I did the proper thing and held it downrange for about 10 seconds before ejecting it.

Old Fuff
December 6, 2008, 07:32 PM
Remington UMC yellow box is a promotional brand made for sale in discount stores or regular retailers running a "special." It's fine for practice - which it is usually used for. I suggest that you buy something better. "Better" does not necessarily mean hollow points. You want quality ammunition that above all feeds reliably.

WardenWolf
December 6, 2008, 07:38 PM
Funny is that the stuff used to feed 100% reliably in both the 1911 and my P90, and always shot decently.

However, the last box we got (which is a later batch than what was in my pistol) is a bit more problematic. The 1911 doesn't like it very much. My P90 eats it up, though. The P90 tends to eat some ammo types that the 1911 won't. I normally load with FMJ because it IS my car gun. If I have to shoot through a door, FMJ is more likely to fully penetrate.

M203Sniper
December 6, 2008, 08:20 PM
Tap - Rack - Bang

Good enough for Chesty Puller, good enough for me.

:)

Eightball
December 6, 2008, 08:39 PM
The round was a Remington UMC yellow box cartridge.It's yellow where you come from? Where I work, pistol UMC is white box, and not many problems with 'em that I"ve ever heard of.

WardenWolf
December 6, 2008, 10:06 PM
Yeah, well, can anyone recommend a good FMJ round that feeds well in Colt 1911's? After using that ammo for a long time, the last batch we got was bad. Generally anything that feeds well in the 1911 will feed in the P90 as well, with the P90 actually being more tolerant.

gbelleh
December 6, 2008, 10:30 PM
I used to shoot Remington UMC yellow box a lot, but I've had quite a few problems with it either misfiring, or having manufacturing defects (especially in 9mm).

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 6, 2008, 10:35 PM
There is NOTHING like the realization that the round you'd been counting on for over 2 years was completely dead.

Yeah, that pretty well stinks - as you point out, good to know now. However, you should probably using premium defense factory ammo anyway to defend your life, not Rem UMC.

WardenWolf
December 6, 2008, 10:42 PM
There was sa time when UMC was actually good ammo. Apparently not anymore. At any rate, I'm looking for a better FMJ round. My P90 isn't picky, although my father's 1911 is.

jdc1244
December 6, 2008, 10:55 PM
can anyone recommend a good FMJ round that feeds well in Colt 1911's?

S&B Ė it runs perfectly in my Coltís 1911s, never a failure. Decent price as well.

Gryphon1410
December 7, 2008, 04:20 PM
I like using the American Eagle ammo by Federal. Goes bang every time so far and is relatively inexpensive.

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 04:52 PM
Anyone had any experience with PMC? PMC generally gets good ratings as a very accurate inexpensive ammo, but I have no idea how their .45 ammo is or whether it feeds well in classic 1911's.

tblt
December 7, 2008, 04:55 PM
That is cheap ammo I would never use it for SD

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 04:59 PM
Well, PMC is South Korean. Given that South Korea is a high-tech country, I have no inherent objections to using ammo from there as it is probably very good and PMC is very highly rated. But autoloading pistols are finicky beasts. Ammo that works perfectly in one model may never work right in another. I need to know if it works well in a 1911.

Brian41
December 7, 2008, 05:16 PM
There is NOTHING like the realization that the round you'd been counting on for over 2 years was completely dead.


forget range time...you had 2+ year old loads you were relying on for personal defense? Even if i'm not at the range every month or so, i would ABSOLUTELY keep less than 6 month old HP's loaded up for my daily carry piece.

The Bushmaster
December 7, 2008, 05:25 PM
Well Mike the Wolf...There is Remington Green box. There is Winchester. There is Federal and there is Hornady...Take your pick. All quality ammunition and made in America. Of course I use my own reloads with Hornady XTP bullets as I trust them much more then factory...

And if you are having that much trouble with your guns feeding standard ammunition, maybe you need to take your guns to a reputable gunsmith and have them looked at...

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 05:28 PM
you had 2+ year old loads you were relying on for personal defense? Even if i'm not at the range every month or so, i would ABSOLUTELY keep less than 6 month old HP's loaded up for my daily carry piece.

One, ammo does not normally degrade in only 2 years. Two, I live in Arizona which means a dry environment conducive to preservation. That is the ONLY US-made factory centerfire round I've ever encountered with a dead primer, and I've shot ammo much older than that. I've seen ammo stored in garages for decades come out looking and shooting like new. Three, I use FMJ's because it's my car gun, and in case I have to shoot through, say, a car door, I'd rather have a more durable round.

I already took the 1911 apart for cleaning and inspection. I can practically do it blindfolded. Scrubbed everything clean, checked for signs of wear. It's not the gun, it's the ammo. The gun is pristine, and I've seen it run reliably before with different ammo. Part of the reason why 1911's are a bit picky is that they lack a bullet ramp, instead relying on a ramped lip on the barrel. Newer models like my P90 have a full bullet guide.

hags
December 7, 2008, 05:33 PM
Remington UMC yellow box is a promotional brand made for sale in discount stores or regular retailers running a "special." It's fine for practice - which it is usually used for. I suggest that you buy something better. "Better" does not necessarily mean hollow points. You want quality ammunition that above all feeds reliably.

Yes, for self defense I would think you'd want the best available. Corbon, Hornady, Federal Hydra Shok or something along those lines.

RogersPrecision
December 7, 2008, 06:11 PM
I would like to have that dead round for autopsy.
I'd pull it down and photograph the results and post them here.

Here are some recent pics of a dud that was being carried by a federal law enforcement officer. Notice that the powder looks clumpy and wet.
I do not know the source of the contamination. Bullet and primer were both properly seated.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/4-24.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/5-23.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/6-19.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/3-28.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/2-25.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/pistolwrench19/1-25.jpg

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 06:27 PM
I gave the round to the rangemaster to dispose of, so I don't have it. It was properly assembled, with no visual differences between it and an unfired round except for an obvious dent in the primer where my firing pin struck it. The primer simply failed to go off.

I fully ejected the round and rechambered it afterwards, with no luck. It was clearly the primer. One of the range officers expressed surprise that a Remington round did not go off.

shotgunjoel
December 7, 2008, 06:31 PM
Eightball, UMC is in yellow boxes here, never heard of white box UMC. I believe you, I just don't know why it would be different, does remington have more than one ammo factory?

dagger dog
December 7, 2008, 06:39 PM
Mike,

If you think about it you're taking that same gamble (if that first round is going to pop) day after day:what:, your title says it all!

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 06:55 PM
That was the ONLY problem I've ever had with that ammo. I had experience using it, knew it to be good ammo that fed reliably and shot well enough, so when I chose ammo for my gun, that's what I chose. If you fault me for my choice of ammo, you should know I chose it for good reason because I knew it worked well in that gun. I can't count how many boxes of the stuff I've shot out of both the P90 and the 1911.

With any semi-auto, you know there's always a slight chance of a jam. If you carry chambered, you also know that you've only got 1 shot guaranteed, and you have to make it count. You should be prepared to clear a jam, but you can only count on that first shot.

A freak dead primer changes that whole game plan. You lose your element of surprise, you lose the stunning effect of the muzzle report. All you get is a *click*. Even if you tap and rack immediately, you're still standing there with a dead gun for about 2 seconds. A dead second or third shot may not be disastrous, but a dead first one almost certainly will.

RogersPrecision
December 7, 2008, 08:55 PM
I once had a Federal American Eagle 45acp give me a 'click' instead of a 'bang'.
The autopsy revealed a primer complete with anvil, but no primer compound!
Like matches, with ammo, you can't test each rd to be sure it's a good one.
:D
I have little doubt that handloading can produce more reliable ammo. One can check for primer anvil and compound, a flash hole through the case, and dry powder in the cartridge. You could even seal each primer and bullet as you load.

sniper7369
December 7, 2008, 09:13 PM
If you're looking for some other brand of ball ammo, I've shot thousands of rounds of Blazer Brass and WWB through my 1911s and my G30 without a single hiccup.
I normally only buy ammo for the brass anyway though, I use my own reloads for SD. I just trust ammo that I put together myself a lot more than the mass produced stuff. I inspect every piece of brass, every primer, weigh every powder charge one at a time, inspect and put the calipers on every single finished round when they're done.
Probably takes me 2 or 3 hours to put together 100rds of my SD ammo, but I KNOW every single round is PERFECT.
Just my .02 YMMV

armoredman
December 7, 2008, 09:51 PM
Mike, I also live in AZ, and I swap out carry ammo every 6 months. Safety, plus I take the old duty ammo for target practice, stay "up" on how it acts in my sidearm. If you must have a FMJ profile, may I suggest you look into the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammo?

Blue .45
December 7, 2008, 10:09 PM
I once had a Federal American Eagle 45acp give me a 'click' instead of a 'bang'.
The autopsy revealed a primer complete with anvil, but no primer compound!

I had a round of this same brand in 9mm, which had the primer installed backwards.

I usually keep my P90 loaded with some type of hollow point. Hoover, I do keep a box of Hornady Custom, 230-Grain FMJ, just in case I think I might need them. I don't know if they are any more reliable than any other generic brand, but they should run fine in just about any gun.

BTW, My P90 is one of my favorite range guns. I hope you take yours out and enjoy it more. I know the trigger isn't as good as the Colt 1911 models, but it handles recoil well, and it is a pleasure to shoot. :)

Sport45
December 7, 2008, 11:02 PM
S&B Ė it runs perfectly in my Coltís 1911s, never a failure. Decent price as well.

Absolutely. Very good stuff.

WardenWolf
December 7, 2008, 11:23 PM
All right. I'll probably pick up some S&B. Hornady is nice, but oh so expensive. I really hate to put different ammo in for the range and for self defense. I always feel you should shoot what you intend to use.

MIgunguy
December 18, 2008, 06:52 PM
That yellow-box UMC ammo is crap. :banghead:

Steve C
December 18, 2008, 07:28 PM
Its a fallacy that just because you've shot 10K rounds through a pistol without any failures that it won't fail on number 10,001. Everyone talks of the gun being reliable but a bad round of ammo is a weakness that can pop up with any gun.

CoRoMo
December 18, 2008, 07:50 PM
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Had that been a DA wheelie, no big deal.

nj.piney
December 18, 2008, 09:57 PM
its a white box with a green label . 100 round box of rem 230 gr.jhp ammo . costs $40. per box . 100 % reliable in my colt defender or star pd45

Mike J
December 18, 2008, 10:16 PM
The only time I ever had a jam in my Ruger semi was using Remington UMC for practice. I now use Blazer Brass for practice ammo-its cheaper & I've never had a problem with it. I don't use either of these for carry.

Boba Fett
December 18, 2008, 11:19 PM
That is the ONLY US-made factory centerfire round I've ever encountered with a dead primer

The thing is, it's a mass production item. There will always be a bad round from time to time. For plinking it doesn't really matter. When it is your life, go with something that is more expensive and has more QA involvement in the production process.

Had that been a DA wheelie, no big deal.

The only Remington Yellow I've shot is 38 special. I've never had a round go "click," but like the man says, it's a wheelie, no big deal.

Kind of Blued
December 19, 2008, 02:27 AM
Yikes.

I scanned the thread, but didn't catch why you were using FMJ for SD. I've heard that Ruger autos should feed just about anything, but if you can't get any JHPs to feed, try Remington Golden Sabers. From what I've seen, they'll feed even in finnicky, unpolished 1911s.

Keep in mind that even if you can't get JHPs to feed reliably, you can at least keep one in the chamber, assuming you carry with one in the pipe. Take however long you need to get it in there... it'll extract just the same as an FMJ would.

Dday
December 19, 2008, 02:51 AM
AZ car gun that sat loaded and dormant for two years, eh? Could it have been heat degredation? Gets pretty hot in AZ cars during summer. High temps have a way way of affecting chemicals. Could get up to perhaps 200+ in a closed car on a hot summer day down there. Maybe primer and powder were both affected?

I have no actual experience with this mind you, it just crossed my mind... I guess that wouldnlt explain why other rounds fired and the first didn't? Could it have been from a different lot? Older and longer exposure to heat maybe?

Jed Carter
December 19, 2008, 05:27 AM
Most ranges with a range officer are COLD RANGES... and you show up with a loaded firearm... Please tell me you don't live in Kentucky... that's right AZ, good! Responsible gun ownership and use starts with good safety practices...

Fozzy_Bear
December 19, 2008, 12:33 PM
Ummm...
I'm supprised nobody mentioned this yet (maybe they did and I missed it...

But... Have you considered that it was not the ammo, but the gun? If you ejected the old round, then the hammer was back, and was in SA mode.

I had a gun once that would have Fail-to-Fires in double action, but in single action would work every time. - Now, it was a rimfire, so I wasn't counting on it, so it wasn't a big deal... but still the possibility remains.


I suggest going back to the range and firing 2 full magazines Double-action only (decocking after each shot)

If the chance is there, I would be absolutely sure that it isn't just a weak spring in the gun.


just my opinion, I COULD be wrong.

K.L.O.sako
December 19, 2008, 02:37 PM
i have'nt shot a lot of it but the mag-tech fmj worked real well for me and seemed to be cleaner than WWB. oh and by the way that "possibility of shots through a car door" statement. have you ever shot through a cars door? well strangly enough, i have, more than once. the place me and my friends usually shoot at is an old abandoned strip mine. and about once or twice a year, teen idiots will jack an old car and deposit the remains there, usually burned or wrecked beyond repair. my buddys and me use them for targets and senario drills and such, and i gotta tell ya, car doors don't stop a hole lot of anything. not even .22's in some cases. I don't think there's a .45 on the market that won't go through a car door handily at close range. I'm not slamming your choice. people have there reasons for what they do. but if you decide to try somthing that expands, i don't think barrier penatration will be an issue. you might take a look at cor-bons powr-ball ammo, a hollow point with a polymer tip in a ball shape that seems to feed like crazy in 1911's. might be worth a look. good luck , hope you find the right one.

Ken Rainey
December 19, 2008, 03:36 PM
Yep, some S&B should be fine...I like their sealed primers....or the PMC you mentioned should work well also. A bad primer is just one of those things...you might shoot UMCs from now on and never get another...but...I think the S&B or PMC is better....I use the 50 rd boxes of WWB for my defensive FMJs....fingers crossed..:uhoh:...:D

Eagles6
December 19, 2008, 04:42 PM
I've got boxes of UMC empty brass in front of me. .357 mag is a yellow box and probably a good 5 yrs old. 9mm and .38 spcl +P is the green and white box. Don't know if they went to the green/white box more recently or if .357 and others still use the yellow box. That being said, I have never had a problem with UMC and think it's a good value and don't hesitate to use it for SD carry.

I have had problems with Win. White box. .30 Carbine had 4 boxes and 1 in 5-10 FTF in 2 boxes. Win had me send the other 2 back. They said the primers had been contaminated with oil, not me as the boxes were unopened. They sent me coupons for 4 new boxes. I've shot lots of other WW in .357 mag and .38 spcl with no problems.

I have also had a number of FTF with Wolf Military in the camo boxes, primers failed to go bang. Had a Golden Tiger with no powder and I have handful of S&B .223 rounds found at my gun club with primer strikes, albeit light, but bullet and powder intact.

Take it for what it's worth.

WardenWolf
December 19, 2008, 05:18 PM
Most ranges with a range officer are COLD RANGES... and you show up with a loaded firearm... Please tell me you don't live in Kentucky... that's right AZ, good! Responsible gun ownership and use starts with good safety practices...

I emptied the chamber and put the round back in the mag. Gun was locked open and unloaded when I arrived. Although they don't inspect cased firearms and you're allowed to show up with one holstered.

AZ car gun that sat loaded and dormant for two years, eh? Could it have been heat degredation? Gets pretty hot in AZ cars during summer. High temps have a way way of affecting chemicals. Could get up to perhaps 200+ in a closed car on a hot summer day down there. Maybe primer and powder were both affected?

All the other rounds in the mag shot fine, and I've never heard of that happening. We had some old ammo stored in the garage for over 30 years and it always went bang. Note: our good pistol and rifle ammo is NOT stored in the garage, but in the air conditioned and heated house.

Ummm...
I'm supprised nobody mentioned this yet (maybe they did and I missed it...

But... Have you considered that it was not the ammo, but the gun? If you ejected the old round, then the hammer was back, and was in SA mode.

I rechambered that round and tried it in single mode. No dice. Totally dead. I also tried several more rounds in double action mode. They all worked flawlessly. This gun has only seen light use, and is stored decocked. There's no real possibility the spring is weak. It's an isolated incident.

I've got boxes of UMC empty brass in front of me. .357 mag is a yellow box and probably a good 5 yrs old. 9mm and .38 spcl +P is the green and white box. Don't know if they went to the green/white box more recently or if .357 and others still use the yellow box. That being said, I have never had a problem with UMC and think it's a good value and don't hesitate to use it for SD carry.

We used the yellow UMC for a while. Last batch we got was probably 3 years ago. We hadn't used much of this box, but the quality of it was definitely worse than the older stuff. The older stuff fed well in the 1911. This box did not.

i have'nt shot a lot of it but the mag-tech fmj worked real well for me and seemed to be cleaner than WWB. oh and by the way that "possibility of shots through a car door" statement. have you ever shot through a cars door? well strangly enough, i have, more than once. the place me and my friends usually shoot at is an old abandoned strip mine. and about once or twice a year, teen idiots will jack an old car and deposit the remains there, usually burned or wrecked beyond repair. my buddys and me use them for targets and senario drills and such, and i gotta tell ya, car doors don't stop a hole lot of anything. not even .22's in some cases. I don't think there's a .45 on the market that won't go through a car door handily at close range. I'm not slamming your choice. people have there reasons for what they do. but if you decide to try somthing that expands, i don't think barrier penatration will be an issue. you might take a look at cor-bons powr-ball ammo, a hollow point with a polymer tip in a ball shape that seems to feed like crazy in 1911's. might be worth a look. good luck , hope you find the right one.

I'm aware that other variants might still penetrate, but I'd REALLY rather it not expand on the outer metal and then potentially lose mass going through the inside paneling. Plus the fact that most modern vehicles have a metal beam in the door to protect against side impacts. The P90 may eat most ammo types well, but whatever I buy I want to also work in the 1911. My replacement ammo is MagTech 230-grain FMJ. It seems to feed well in both guns in non-firing function tests.

Jed Carter
December 19, 2008, 05:55 PM
You emptied the chamber... Put the round in the magazine and fired it double action? Had to jack the slide to chamber the round again... And you fired it double action...wolf scat!

WardenWolf
December 19, 2008, 07:45 PM
No, I had it locked open. I simply inserted the mag and released the slide.

Jed Carter
December 20, 2008, 09:04 AM
You said in the original post that you fire the first round in double action. No one i have ever seen at a range releases the slide on a full mag and then decocks the gun to fire the first round in double action... The only reason a shooter at the range fires the first round in double action ... The gun was loaded when it got there... Now i really don't mean anthing personal but i have a lot of experience with careless gun owners at various ranges most will never get any better, i hope you realize that it was not an ammunition issue that caused this misfire...but carelessness in your storage, maintenance and use of a firearm

Ken Rainey
December 20, 2008, 02:43 PM
Dang Jed, lighten up buddy...you were not at the range so you should not TELL someone what they did or that the problem IS with their pistol...yep, make suggestions and try to be helpful but be nice about it....stay on The High Road...;) Remember now, just because you've seen other people do things at a public range doesn't mean everybody does the same thing now does it....everyone that I teach at the range is required to decock a double action auto and fire the first round as such. A thinking person will operate their pistol at the range as it is carried....and I've seen my share of bad primers in factory loaded ammo...just one of those things...:uhoh:

Boba Fett
December 20, 2008, 08:04 PM
You said in the original post that you fire the first round in double action. No one i have ever seen at a range releases the slide on a full mag and then decocks the gun to fire the first round in double action... The only reason a shooter at the range fires the first round in double action ... The gun was loaded when it got there...

The omnipresent and omnipotent Jed speaks!

Welcome to the forum Jed, but play nice. :rolleyes:

Just because you've never seen anyone do something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Instead of basically calling someone a liar, ask more questions; get more information.

If you just ask, you'll get more people like myself who will give examples of why someone fires the first round in double action: I do this with my CCWs so I can practice with how the first shot will feel. I put he mag in, chamber a round, and decock the gun. Since I don't carry any of my CCWs with the hammer back/single action, I want to make sure I have a feel for what that first round will be like. I have even gone so far as to decock each time I fire a round.

So unless someone is claiming to have been shooting men from space (or other wild claims), give them the benefit of the doubt and ask for more information and clarification before jumping to accusatory conclusions.

Now i really don't mean anthing personal but i have a lot of experience with careless gun owners at various ranges most will never get any better, i hope you realize that it was not an ammunition issue that caused this misfire...but carelessness in your storage, maintenance and use of a firearm

Now the second part of your "not personal" remarks.

I don't see how you can say that there was carelessness in the storage, maintenance, or use of his firearm. I mean, first off, you weren't there. And second, nothing the OP has said indicates that he did anything to cause that round to not fire...except maybe by simply have a lower quality round for his defensive ammo.

Gotta work on your tact (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=tact) there Jed (I linked to the definition for you just in case).

FoMoGo
December 20, 2008, 08:09 PM
Most ranges with a range officer are COLD RANGES... and you show up with a loaded firearm... Please tell me you don't live in Kentucky... that's right AZ, good! Responsible gun ownership and use starts with good safety practices...
One reason I am glad I go to a state range with no officers.
I get out of the Charger... walk up to the bench... draw, flip off the safety, and fire.
Usually after I put down my drink and cheeseburger with my boxes of ammo on the bench... :D


Jim

WardenWolf
December 20, 2008, 08:17 PM
You said in the original post that you fire the first round in double action. No one i have ever seen at a range releases the slide on a full mag and then decocks the gun to fire the first round in double action... The only reason a shooter at the range fires the first round in double action ... The gun was loaded when it got there... Now i really don't mean anthing personal but i have a lot of experience with careless gun owners at various ranges most will never get any better, i hope you realize that it was not an ammunition issue that caused this misfire...but carelessness in your storage, maintenance and use of a firearm

Jed, leave my thread. Seriously. Don't bother to post anymore.

The P90 is a single/double. The hammer does not stay cocked if the safety is engaged. When I inserted the mag and released the slide, the safety was on. Therefore the hammer safely dropped. And, believing I should practice how I would be apt to use it in a self-defense situation, I did not manually cock it but instead did a full double action pull after turning the safety off. So kindly stop trolling and stop accusing me of being stupid and unsafe. You are no longer welcome in this thread.

The UMC I used to get was good ammo. This last batch, not so much. We had run out of UMC .45 ammo at our last outing, bought a new box of UMC, and I had loaded my .45 with the new ammo. New ammo was about a year newer than the old ammo, and we had shot some of this box with no major problems (worked fine the P90, 1911 was a little flaky with this box). So it's hardly my fault that this ammo, that had proven to be reliable in the past, just decided to give me a dud.

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