CCW or not


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WTBguns10kOK
December 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
Searched for this topic, sorry if I missed where it's been discussed.

Have been considering what to do about buying handguns. Already sure that I want a .357 magnum for home defense. But, I would love a .45 at some point as well, for concealed carry.

I'm sure I'll get laughed at, but I've never been fingerprinted and I really hate the idea of it. Part of me wonders if Hussein Obama will attempt to institute some type of new national I.D. that would require me to get fingerprinted anyway. So, obviously I value privacy a lot, and it's not like I'm going to go out and do something illegal I would fear having my prints matched to...I just hate the fact that a citizen who has never been arrested gets treated like one who has, just in case they ever do something illegal with their gun. It's like once I buy a handgun I'm guilty of something...

Am I caring too much about this, and should I just go get a CCW?

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expvideo
December 9, 2008, 04:47 PM
You can avoid the whole hassle and open carry. The permit is to carry a gun concealed, not to carry a gun. You can remain completely anonymous and carry a gun if you want. But if you would like the convenience of concealed carry, you're going to have to prove that you're not a criminal and that means prints.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but them's the rules.

Deanimator
December 9, 2008, 04:48 PM
Am I caring too much about this, and should I just go get a CCW?
Without the right to lawfully carry a concealed firearm, what's your plan for dealing with the unlawful use of deadly force against you?

Begging and pleading for your life?

Carrying illegally?

sailortoo
December 9, 2008, 05:03 PM
I guess the finger print thing can be a question mark, but too often it is a necessary part of life. I had to be fingerprinted by the FBI in order to have access to the ship's safe (USCG) for secret documents. Once fingerprinted by them, there is no way out - you are in the system. To stay intirely out of the national system of identification is probably possible, but pretty hard to avoid, I would guess. If you go into many occupations, you will be finger printed. I'm trying to say that it isn't the end of the world, and the benefits of concealed carry, to me, far outweigh any need to stay "out of the system". The 1800's idea of "Gone to Texas" and disappearing from society is pretty difficult to accomplish now days. I'll be interested to read some comments to your question - I'll bet most will say to go for it - the benefits outweigh the potential of a problem.
sailortoo

Treo
December 9, 2008, 06:28 PM
Unless you purchase your firearms privately you're already IN the system.

I don't think they take your fingerprints in case you commit a crime I think it's to make sure you haven't

You could move to vermont

moi_self26
December 9, 2008, 07:20 PM
Go get your permit. It's worth it!!!!

stevemis
December 9, 2008, 07:24 PM
After seeing what North Carolina considers public record about CHP's, I certainly wouldn't have gotten it. Open carry doesn't "open" your personal details to everyone...

Here's a sample of what's out there... for every CHP *ever* issued in the state. Note this is a former US Attorney who is/was under threat from an inmate he prosecuted.


(from www.notconcealed.com)


NORTH CAROLINA CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT

PERMIT NO.: 5153763NC
EXPIRES: 10-13-2009
BRADSHER,JAMES FRANKLIN
112 SPRING HOLLOW LANE
CARY NC
WAKE SSN: XXX-XX-XXX
DL: 5153763
DOB: 01-23-1960 RACE: W SEX: M
HT: 601 WT: 205 HAIR: BLN EYE: BLU

PERMITEE:________________________________
SAMPLE - SAMPLE - SAMPLE - SAMPLE - SAMPLE


Home Phone (919) 233-4195


Applicant did not serve in the military.

Mailing Address
Street 112 SPRING HOLLOW LANE
City CARY
State NC
ZIP 27511


Temporary/Emergency Permit
Issue Date 10/08/2004
Expiration Date 01/05/2005
Permit Status PERMIT EXPIRED


PERMIT EVENT HISTORY

Issue Date 10/08/2004
Expiration Date 01/05/2005
Agency WAKE
Status PERMIT ISSUED FOR APPLICATION
Type NEW
Remarks CURRENTLY UNDER THREAT FROM FEDERAL INMATE THAT HE PROSECUTED AS AN ASST US ATTORNEY
Changed ZIP


Issue Date 10/08/2004
Expiration Date 01/05/2005
Agency WAKE
Status PERMIT ISSUED FOR APPLICATION
Type TEMPORARY
Remarks CURRENTLY UNDER THREAT FROM FEDERAL INMATE THAT HE PROSECUTED AS AN ASST US ATTORNEY
Changed ZIP


Issue Date 10/08/2004
Expiration Date 01/05/2005
Agency WAKE
Status PERMIT ISSUED
Type TEMPORARY
Remarks (none)
Changed ZIP


Issue Date 10/14/2004
Expiration Date 10/13/2009
Agency WAKE
Status PERMIT ISSUED
Type NEW
Remarks (none)
Changed ZIP


Issue Date 01/05/2005
Expiration Date 01/05/2005
Agency WAKE
Status PERMIT EXPIRED
Type TEMPORARY
Remarks COMPUTER GENERATED EXPIRATION RECORD
Changed ZIP

BBQLS1
December 9, 2008, 11:12 PM
Breaking the law may make the decision for you.

Dwight45
December 9, 2008, 11:41 PM
I live in California, and I wish I could get a permit.

Zundfolge
December 9, 2008, 11:50 PM
If things ever get to the point that the fed.gov is using our fingerprint files against us somehow, its going to suck just as much for those of you that don't have them on file.

Living in a police state sucks just as much (if not more) for the folk "off the grid" as it does for the registered serfs.

The benefits of being "off the grid" are outweighed by the liabilities. Might as well get the benefit of the CHL now.



Hell, once upon a time most states used your fingerprint and not your photo on your drivers license ... and the world didn't go all Brazil/1984/Logan's Run then.


Furthermore, going online is a greater security risk than having your fingerprints on file with the state PD.

johncantiusgarand
December 10, 2008, 12:12 AM
You can avoid the whole hassle and open carry. The permit is to carry a gun concealed, not to carry a gun.

Depends on the state. In Tennessee, the permit is termed a "Handgun Carry Permit." Without one, you'd be breaking one of our laws that prohibits carrying without such a permit with the intent to go armed. The legislature purposely avoided naming it a concealed carry permit due to some states' narrow interpretations of concealed carry permits that punish a CCW holder if he accidently exposes his concealed weapon.

Although legal to carry openly (with a permit), handgun carry permit holders in Tennessee are strongly encouraged to carry their handguns concealed to avoid panicking soccer moms and encountering nervous police officers. Police around here typically get dispatched to "man with a gun" calls when a permit holder carries openly. If he has a permit, the encounter ends well enough, but often not before someone gets offended.

Most people who habitually carry concealed have been "made" at least once due to things like a wardrobe malfunction, a sudden gust of wind, an unexpected hug from that nice old lady at church, etc. Since you've already decided that you would prefer to "go armed", get the permit for your own legal peace of mind.

MedWheeler
December 10, 2008, 08:43 PM
I agree that you're putting too much into the printing thing. I'd been printed five times without ever feeling like I was being treated like a criminal. The first time was for the Army, then once for each of two LE agencies I worked for, once for the EMS unit I currently work for, and once for the local school district (I took a job as a PT substitute teacher.)
I mentioned this to the civilian police employee assigned to print me for the sixth time (for my CCF/CCW permit), and she invited me to roll my prints myself, which I did. :neener:
If you go without, you could end up getting printed sooner or later, whether warranted or not.

px4storm
December 10, 2008, 09:03 PM
Go ahead and get your CHL! It will be one of the best things you've ever done! Finger printing is a minor issue compared to your personal safety and the safety of those you love!

mljdeckard
December 10, 2008, 09:04 PM
The privacy ship sailed for me a long time ago. I've had so many jobs and licenses with the .gov, including a security clearance, by now, they have mo SSN memorized at the NCIS desk, the see it come in and probably have a sticky note on their monitor; "Let this guy through!" I'm so far in the system it would be silly for me to pretend otherwise. It's difficult to say if any damage would be done to your rights, how, or how much. I really think when these kinds of threats are a real problem, they would use more well-established methods of tracking people that have already been established. (Like tax records.) Non-criminal fingerprint records aren't uniform and distributed nationwide.

There are those of us who feel that applying for a CCW is admitting to the .gov that bearing arms is a privilige, and in applying you are surrendering control of the right to the government. I would submit, if this is possible, the positive results of having 40 of 50 states become shall-issue with NO negative consequences in criminal activity also speaks for itself. The more of us that carry, the more obvious it is when the government moves to restrict the right. It changes it from being something only 'gun nuts' worry about to something that has deep impact across the nation.

Your concern over your privacy is legitimate. But for ME, it's not a big enough concern that I'm going to lay down my arms for it. YOU MIGHT consider living in a state where you don't need a permit to carry? I know I'm not in a position to jump up and move to one, I guess you would have to decide as well.

the foot
December 10, 2008, 09:36 PM
There is no big problem with fingerprinting.

If that is your only concern, get a license.

WTBguns10kOK
December 11, 2008, 05:39 AM
Well, I live in a state that is quite generous to gun owners, so I shouldn't need to move. Didn't see the Obamanation coming at the time of settling here, but I'm extra happy about being here now. Guess I just wanted some wiser and more experienced views on this to push me into a ccw. Many thanks to all.

BBQLS1
December 11, 2008, 11:09 AM
Really, there are already tons of other ways people will know who you are. Posting in an internet form would identify you as an example.

Don't worry about it too much.

Tequila jake
December 13, 2008, 11:18 AM
Like others who have posted a reply, I have been fingerprinted so often and so many govt agencies have my SSAN, that I couldn't possibly be "off the grid" no matter how hard I tried. Don't worry about it. Just get your CCW and avoid a big hassle if you carry without it and are "made" by/reported to the police.

Tequila Jake

7.62X25mm
December 13, 2008, 11:41 AM
How about you view being fingerprinted as pre-emptive PROOF that you're not the bad guy they're looking for? Locally the CCW requires a "mug shot" which goes into the "mug shot" book.

The person taking the mug shot for my CCW says, "smile!" And I noted that I'm not big on smiling for mug shots.

She says, "Yeah, but the photos all go in the same book, and we can tell the CCW holders from the criminals because the CCW holders are all smiling."

There's no other designation in the mug shot book.

You're being provided by a law enforcement agency some ID and a "certification" that you've been checked out and cleared. The "qualifying bar" for that ID is higher than a driver's license. The police understand that requirement.

Don't worry about it.

You're going to get "thumb printed" when you buy a firearm.

mljdeckard
December 13, 2008, 12:09 PM
NO. You are presumed to be innocent. You don't have to PROVE it to anyone. You shouldn't have to go through this to exercise a right.

MostlyHarmless
December 14, 2008, 03:32 PM
Not all states require fingerprints. Minnesota, for example, does not, and issues permits to nonresidents (you have to appear in person to apply however). On the other hand, being fingerprinted is no big deal.

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