[357mag357]

I was at the range looking for some brass and came across some 45acp Blazers without the berdan primer. I know you are not supposed to reload aluminum cases so why did Blazer switch? I did go as far sizing and primed just to see if it would work. The strange thing is the 45acp aluminum cases use a small primer instead of the large primer. I know I should stop now but I have a reloading habbit.

[bullseye308]

The general consensus is don't reload aluminum.:what: You have been warned.:eek: But, it has been done before and you might get one loading out of it and you will loose some due to splitting just sizing them. Absolutely do not load hot, just something light and you may be all right. I would not attempt to load them twice. Now as for being a loading junkie, try steel wolf cases. ;) I have loaded 100 wolf 223 6 times and only lost 3 or 4 to splitting. :neener: Most will not reccomend you to load steel, but I believe it is much safer than aluminum.

I think the reason they switched primers is because they couldn't get berdan primers either. They are almost nonexistant in this country anymore. As for why they used a small primer instead of a large one, I have no idea. :confused:

It is best to stay away from the aluminum cases for reloading. If you must pick them up, save them with your cans and recycle them all together. :D

[Walkalong]

To much free or cheap brass to fool with aluminum.

Steel either, except for die hards like bullseye308. :D

[Jim Watson]

I think the reason they switched primers is because they couldn't get berdan primers either. They are almost nonexistant in this country anymore. As for why they used a small primer instead of a large one, I have no idea.

CCI doesn't have to GET Berdan primers, they MAKE primers and can make whatever they need.

I suspect the small Boxer primer is from a move to lead-free primers as used in the various "NT" rounds, which use small Dinol primers in brass cases.

[SlamFire1]

Are there any material experts who could discuss whether reloading Aluminum cases is a bad idea or not?

I don't know the exact Aluminum used in the cases, but if the yield and the tensile are good enough for one firing, why is it not good enough for two or more?

Does Aluminum work harden faster than brass?, Will the cases crack and split too soon?

[The Bushmaster]

BECAUSE ALUMINUM DOES NOT LIKE TO BE BENT, FLEXED OR EXPANDED. IT WILL BREAK, SPLIT OR RUPTURE...(it's called metal fatigue and aluminum gets tired real fast). There is just too much brass cases out there to jeapordize my fine firearms, or me for that matter, to even consider aluminum cases.

[ReloaderFred]

Yep, what The Bushmaster said....

Fred

[ants]

I picked up some boxer primed Blazer aluminum in 9mm and started reloading. As the members above warned, it's NOT brass so don't expect it to behave the same.

For one thing, the AL cases I picked up have a thicker base than brass cases and thus case capacity is smaller, so you will get higher chamber pressure if you use brass data. I used light loads and they chronographed as near maximum loads. Be aware that there is no data for aluminum cases and no standards for their dimensions, so you're taking a pretty big chance to assume that light loads will be OK.

The 'spring back' is different that brass. Standard dies are dimensioned to resize brass and let it spring back to the right inside diameter. Although I could get enough neck tension in AL cases to hold a bullet, I could still push the bullet deeper by hand. More crimp just damaged the bullet, even crimp dies are dimensioned for the known behavior of brass, not aluminum.

I loaded each AL case several times each to see if they split. They didn't. But the base (including the primer pocket) expanded with every discharge more than brass. A lot more. Soon the primer just falls out.

Bottom line: If brass is outlawed I would consider reloading aluminum cases if I could find reasonable data for them, and I would only reload them only once each (assuming I can guarantee myself that the cases I collect have only been fired once). I would seek a tighter sizing die to get more neck tension. But as long as brass is plentiful today, AL isn't worth it yet.

[jjohnson]

Well, that's interesting. I'd have to agree, that once you have assumed all liability and agreed to "hold harmless" and all the other legal stuff, :barf: the topic is worthy of a cautious experiment for the sake of science.

I've wondered, too, having recently found in my pile of range pickup brass, some of the CCI Boxer-primed "aluminum" (well... I can't call it BRASS). Thanks for doing the experiment and posting observations. I'm careful when I reload and would spot the aluminum hull while loading, but I'd wonder the same thing: What if I load this one...."

Good thing most of the calibers you'll find with aluminum cases are pretty abundant... and cheap.

[rcmodel]

This has nothing to do with reloading them.
But they apparently don't work so hot the first firing in open-bolt sub-guns.

http://www.afte.org/announcements/CCIopenboltwarning.htm

The last sentence says it is not a problem with aluminum cases, but it is subjecting them to a use they were not designed for.

Reloading them falls into the same category!

CCI first used Berdan primers specifically to prevent them being reloaded. Apparently, they have had a change of heart.
But I still wouldn't do it.

rcmodel

[bullseye308]

CCI doesn't have to GET Berdan primers, they MAKE primers and can make whatever they need.
Really, I did know that. :banghead: Really I did. :o

Like I said before, they might be good for one loading, but I would be scared after that. :eek: Steel on the other hand.....:rolleyes:

[SlamFire1]

Ants: Excellent post.

Steel cases were used in WWII because brass was something they wanted to conserve. They never tried alumimum. I do know Alumimum can be hardened, and it is used in applications where brass is too weak to use. Like airplane structures.

I guess Blazer has made sure that its Alumimum is dead soft.

[The Bushmaster]

Aviation aluminum is a special alloy and way too expensive to use for cases. I doubt that it would have the ability to expand in the chamber as it needs to do to seal the chamber. Also...I have worked with aviation aluminum alloy and found that it too does not like to be bent...

[fguffey]

in the beginning there was a head stamp 'EC' Claire, Wisconsin, then the EC was changed to EW, seems Chrysler got into the ammo business in Evansville, IN and wanted the head stamp EC for Evansville Chrysler, Chrysler ran two plants, one made aluminum cases for 45 ACP, the other loaded all ammo for the 45 and brass cases.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Eau Claire, Wisconsin

sorry about that.

F. GUffey

[rcmodel]

one made aluminum cases for 45 ACPI believe they made zinc-plated steel cases for the .45 ACP.
Not aluminum cases.

To my knowledge, there was no aluminum cased .45 ACP used in WWII.
Only brass or steel.

rcmodel

[Grassman]

Does all new brass come annealed from the factory? I know that Winchester does, I just bought some Remington last week and I could not tell if it was.

[ReloaderFred]

The U.S, didn't make any aluminum cases during WWII. For one thing, aluminum was very expensive during that period, and for another, they didn't have the technology. It was reserved mostly for aircraft, and later, some canteens were made from it.

As for annealed brass, almost all brass is annealed during the stamping/drawing process. They tumble it in most cases to remove the tarnish from the annealing process.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[fguffey]

I have aluminum 45 ACP EC head stamped ammo, it is not zinc, it is not plated and it was made between 1941 and 1945, one of the plants was located at the old Sun Beam plant. Again, Chrysler operated two plants, one made aluminum cases the other made brass cases, only one of the two plants loaded.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

brass is annealed at least 5 times during the manufacturing process, there was one attempt to eliminate one process, FA MATCH 58, and there is no reason to tumble after annealing.

F. Guffey

[ReloaderFred]

I have about 100 EC and EU headstamped .45 cases, and about 100 loaded rounds, and a magnet picks them all up. It's possible they made aluminum cases during the war, but I've never seen one, or for that matter ever heard of one.

If you have some aluminum .45 cases from WW II, then I'd surely like one for my collection.

Fred

[NCsmitty]

WHY, WHY, WHY even mess with those AL cases? Brass cases have the best, safest properties to use in your firearms. The Blazer AL cases are not meant to be reloaded for a reason, and I think that warning is on the box. It's just not worth it, even though it can be done. But it's your face and hands that's at risk, not mine.

Now Blazer Brass cases are fine of course.

NCsmitty

[357mag357]

When Aluminum was first discovered it was considered a precious metal until they realized aluminum in its raw state is the most abundent metal find in the Earth's crust.

[bullseye308]

What about using the aluminum cases for wax bullets with a primer only? Great for getting animals out of the trash cans or shooting wasps on the porch.

[Walkalong]

What about using the aluminum cases for wax bullets with a primer only?Now there is an idea.

[jcwit]

I did an experiment using alu. cases and steel cases. Reloaded both with med. loads meaning not the starting load and not the max. I reloaded both types 10 plus times with no splits or any other problems. These were shot in a Kimber custom stainless. Without having any problem I finally gave up. Do I recommend this NO WAY, it was only an experiment. Brass is to cheap and is the proven metal, why change?

[evan price]

With any metal there is a point that you can flex it to before it starts to fatigue. With steel, you can repeatedly flex it to levels below the limit and it is fine.
With aluminum, repeated stressings below the limits will lower the failure threshold until it splits. This is why aircraft have to have inspections, and also why they lost the DeHavilland Comets back in the day- the engineers didn't understand repetitive stress fatigue in aluminum that well. Aluminum will stress fracture. Anyone remember Aloha Air flight 243? The world's first convertible Boeing 737?

[rcmodel]

If you have some aluminum .45 cases from WW II, then I'd surely like one for my collection.As would a lot of other cartridge collectors, I betcha!

rcmodel

[ReloaderFred]

I'd even be willing to trade one of my few remaining large pistol primed .38 Special cases for one.......

Fred

[moooose102]

i relaoded several of these. they will split when you fire them on the first reload, i carefully resized and primed them, and loaded them @ the beginning load (light) and every one split when fired. so, the rest (i had a box of them that i had bought and shot) i resized, replaced the primers, and inserted rubber training bullets. other than that, they are pretty much useless. sorry, just keep looking for brass, and leave the aluminum ones lay.

[jcwit]

All I can say is mine did not split, must have been the weather. Ten plus reloadings.

[SlamFire1]

There is some partially correct information presented here.

Brass cases are operating above yield, the load is such they permanently deform, but since they keep their integrity, they are operating below tensile strength.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_strength
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength

This has to be true for the aluminum and for steel cases or the cases would blow each shot.

As for as fatigue, if steel is operating below yield, and is made thick enough, the steel structure can be flexed an infinite amount of times. I really doubt steel cases are that thick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_(material)

I don't believe that any brass structure has an infinite fatique life. As for cases, if you have not noticed, you get cracks in brass cases. For aluminum, aluminum will always fatigue fracture at some point. The thicker it is, the longer it takes. But there is no infinite stress cycle for aluminum.

That’s why they inspect and rebuild aluminum aircraft. The things are cycling themselves to failure every time they are flown.

Sometimes the roof comes off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243


For cases, like I said earlier, I don’t know enough about aluminum to know if cases made of a strong enough, hard enough, and thick enough aluminum could be reloaded as many times as brass.

For someone to take aluminum cases ten reloads with mild loads, well, that is interesting.

[jcwit]

Might it also have something to do with being fired in a match barrel? Less tolerance for expansion? Just a thought.