Silencers


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jollypanda
December 10, 2008, 10:35 PM
My friend is considering purchasing a silencer for his pistol, but I told him that he probably needs a special permit - is this true? We live in Florida. Is there a Florida requirement or a national requirement, or both?

Thanks :)

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husbandofaromanian
December 10, 2008, 10:55 PM
I'm suprised I'm the first one to answer this. You will have to find a class III dealer in your state. He will step you through the process. When all is said and done the FBI will have conducted a background check on you in every state. You will have a $200 tax stamp that you must never lose.
I own two silencers.

jollypanda
December 10, 2008, 11:40 PM
Thanks husbandofaromanian.

I have never seen a real silencer, but I hear (no pun intended) that the sound produced is nothing like in the movies - you just hear the action of the gun itself. Is this true??


Speaking of movies, here is a trivia question to all who read this:

Where did the sound effect for movie silencers come from? :banghead:

It seems that of all the movies I have seen with silencers, they all make the same sound.

a-sheepdog
December 10, 2008, 11:48 PM
The silencers that you see in the movie are not very realistic. Depending on the suppressor and the caliber, the suppression can vary greatly. Integrally suppressed firearms are generally quieter than thread on cans. As an example of a thread on can, a SWR Spectre with subsonic 22 ammo is pretty quiet on a pistol and sounds more like a quiet pellet gun. A 9mm can with subsonic ammo is a little louder but still considerably quieter than unsupressed. The biggest plus with suppressors is hearing protection. This is what I have learned through my limited experience. Its best to shoot some different suppressed firearms and base your decisions on that. I am very happy with my suppressors.

Tyris
December 11, 2008, 03:11 AM
Most of my silencers sound like a blast from a high pressure air hose for a few tenths of a second. Rifle caliber silencers will also have the supersonic crack in addition to the above noise.

-T

Tyris
December 11, 2008, 04:25 AM
oops. double.

jollypanda
December 11, 2008, 08:52 AM
Thanks A-Sheepdog.

One other lingering question I have - do silencers affect the accuracy of your weapon, and if so, by how much?

My friend wants to buy a silencer for use against squirrels in his yard; he is a good shot, but I don't know how effective he will be with a silencer. Maybe he should invest in a powerful pellet gun . . . :rolleyes:

Jamyatunes
December 11, 2008, 09:42 AM
It depends on the silencer, but it is quite common for the silencer to make the firearm more accurate.

Some of the hot gasses escaping the muzzle of a standard firearm will actually travel faster than the bullet, and as a result can cause the bullet to wobble initially until it has had some distance to "sleep" or stabilize in it's final trajectory (this problem is caused by an uneven crown). Silencers reduce or eliminate this problem by giving the hot gasses somewhere to go other than forward. Crown repair will also reduce or eliminate the problem, but then you still have a loud gun.

Hanafuda
December 11, 2008, 12:14 PM
While we're on the subject, I'll ask a couple questions too ...

do suppressors have a limited useful lifespan (i.e. # of rds.) or internal parts that wear out over time (baffling)?

Do suppressors get fouled/dirty with carbon, etc from escaping gasses, and if so how frequently is cleaning and/or maintenance required?

What's the price range for the typical threaded suppressor, in .22lr, and in centerfire calibers?

If a suppressor for a .22lr pistol is likely to last my lifetime no matter how many rounds I put through it, then I guess I oughta give it some thought.

taliv
December 11, 2008, 12:22 PM
do suppressors have a limited useful lifespan (i.e. # of rds.) or internal parts that wear out over time (baffling)? not usually

Do suppressors get fouled/dirty with carbon, etc from escaping gasses, and if so how frequently is cleaning and/or maintenance required? yep, they get very dirty and make the gun a lot dirtier

What's the price range for the typical threaded suppressor, in .22lr, and in centerfire calibers? ranges from $200-1800. avg for centerfire is probably $800

paul
December 11, 2008, 02:06 PM
Go to silencertest.com and spend an afternoon reading...
p

Geno
December 11, 2008, 02:19 PM
Sheesh! We can't have silencers in Michigan. We're too irresponsible.

Doc2005

PTK
December 11, 2008, 02:34 PM
If you'd like to know what silencers REALLY sound like, check out my movies.

http://www.youtube.com/user/elitearbor


As for useful life, most silencers are good for thousands and thousands of rounds, some are rated for over 50k rounds, and a few for more than that!

As for cleaning them, most silencers require little to no maintenance, except for .22lr silencers; these have lead build up in them due to the .22lr bullet being unjacketed.

Inexpensive .22lr silencers start at $90-200, and go on up to $400-$800. The decent starter silencers for .22lr are $250-$350. Centerfire, it depends - pistol or rifle? I have a pistol silencer that was $400 (9mm) and a rifle silencer that was $550 (5.56), but also a pistol silencer that was $750 (.45acp) and a rifle silencer that was $800 (30-06). Prices depend on construction, reduction in sound, etc.


Regarding permits - no. It's a one-time tax stamp for possession of the item, each item is $200 (silencers, MGs, sawed offs) or $5 ("Any Other Weapon" like cane guns). The 1934NFA is easy to obey and just requires a bit of patience while you wait for the tax stamp.

jollypanda
December 11, 2008, 03:00 PM
Nice!! Very cool to see real silencers in action - and I like your hat :)

Hanafuda
December 11, 2008, 03:11 PM
paul wrote:
Go to silencertest.com and spend an afternoon reading

dead? wrong url?

KingTiger
December 11, 2008, 03:14 PM
Or here - http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/

PTK
December 11, 2008, 03:23 PM
jollypanda

My mom made me this hat. It's very cunning. :D

PTK
December 11, 2008, 03:25 PM
Double post.

husbandofaromanian
December 12, 2008, 12:24 PM
Silencers are a LOT OF FUN when your not even using them. Just telling people in casual conversation that you own a silencer will liven up the conversation very quickly.

Showing up to the range & screwing your silencer onto the end of your barrel will draw a crowd in a heartbeat. You won't get to shoot much due to answering a lot of questions.

DRAWBACKS OF OWNING A SILENCER.
During a conversation your having about your silencer, someone looks at you with no smile on their face and calls you an assasin. It puts a chill down my spine when people do that. If they're smiling it doesn't bother me and gives me an opportunity to explain that I can take my children target shooting without worrying about destroying their hearing.

kurtmax
December 12, 2008, 03:37 PM
You can also make a silencer without going to a dealer. Just get a tax stamp from the atf to make it (Form 1 iirc).

1858rem
December 12, 2008, 03:43 PM
a big soda bottle works pretty good for my 22 mag rifle when crow huntin' lol

jollypanda
December 12, 2008, 04:35 PM
LOL!

How about pillows - do they silence the report? I've seen those used in movies - maybe to keep blood from splatting in your face...

crushbup
December 12, 2008, 06:01 PM
The effect a pillow will have would be absolutely negligible (and also a felony).

1858rem
December 12, 2008, 06:08 PM
how is shooting through a pillow a felony....unless someone is under it? i tried using a big wad of cloth i had for my shooting rest, absolutly sucked not to mention i couldnt see where i was shootin.....33oz bottles work ok an sound like a 22 short.... improve accuracy by cutting a hole in the bottom first, the gas mostly needs to slowly dissapate and this helps. now not all the crows fly off after the first shot lol

Gunnerpalace
December 12, 2008, 07:57 PM
ARFCOM suppressor forum:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=20

S4gunn
December 12, 2008, 08:11 PM
Quick question:
If I buy a thread on silencer in .223, I know I can use it on more than one rifle.

Q: How less efficient would it be if I used that 223 can on a 22LR rifle? In other words, would a .223-sized silencer on a 22LR be 10%, 20%, or 50% louder than a 22LR can from the same manufacturer on a 22LR rifle?

Going even more oversized, would a 9mm can have any effect if used on a 22LR pistol?

Obviously, a silencer sized for 22LR would be better for that application but if I wanted to safe a few bucks....

-g

Nevermind, it was answered on AR15.com's Silencer FAQ:
Can I use a .223 suppressor on my 22LR ?
Yes, but this is not recommended by some knowledgeable people in the industry. The main reason is that 22LR causes a great deal of fouling in the internals of the can which requires a great deal of cleaning and can necessitate a can that is able to be taken apart by the end user. If the can cannot be taken apart then it is much more difficult to clean. But more importantly is what will happen when you switch over to .223. First, a solid can that is welded is more durable and better suited for heavy use of a .223 caliber weapon. The problem is going to arise however when the .223 heats up the can to much higher temps than the .22LR did. In the process this could knock some of the fouling build up that remains in the can from the 22LR which in turn could cause serious damage to the baffles as it’s blown out the barrel. This is almost like a plasma cutter effect. The baffles could already be superheated from extended or full auto fire making the internals "soft". The hot carbon that got knocked loose could now be blown out the can striking the baffles on the way out and chewing them up little by little. Over time by switching back and forth between heavy use this could really eat up the internals.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=222460

piratelooking@40
December 13, 2008, 05:25 AM
1858rem - seriously, you're admitting to felonies.

Carl N. Brown
December 13, 2008, 06:36 AM
I know a man who has a silencer and all the proper paperwork. It was the first NFA stamp I have looked at, but the stamp on his paperwork looks like something from the 1930s.

In the US in the 1890-1910 timeframe (and in Finland today) silencers were promoted to save the hearing of target shooters and hunters and to reduce noise pollution.

Of course some criminals use silencers, but pegging the silencer as a "gangster weapon" and adding a $200 registration tax did not stop criminal use (or save hearing of hunters or reduce noise pollution at shooting ranges).

Since most of the support for restricting silencers seemed to be informed by movies and dime novels, I would like to point out that in The Godfather a short barrelled very loud pistol was chosen for an assassination because the muzzle blast would startle and confuse witnesses. If a silencer had been used (click poot), the patrons would be looking at the table wondering what was going on, rather that ducking under their own table (BLAM!).

By the way, improvised silencers not registered before manufacture are illegal, including the pillow, the 2 liter soda bottle and the potato. Possession of these items may be deemed "constructive possession" of a silencer by BATF even if they are not assembled to a firearm as a silencer.

husbandofaromanian During a conversation your having about your silencer, someone looks at you with no smile on their face and calls you an assasin.
Those people probably have pillows, 2 liter soda bottles and/or potatoes in their compounds. And quite frankly few assassins use silencers and those that do, do not have tax stamps and don't mention it in social conversations.

Sorry about rambling, I am breaking for coffee.

PTK
December 13, 2008, 06:49 AM
Possession of these items may be deemed "constructive possession" of a silencer by BATF even if they are not assembled to a firearm as a silencer.

That's not what constructive possession means, but other than that your post is quite good and makes valid points. :)

husbandofaromanian
December 14, 2008, 05:26 AM
19 out of 20 of the people I speak to about my silencers (including a couple of ffl holders) did not know they are legal (in our state). When I show them to people they are surprised to see what a simple looking metal can it is since they've always thought it was something exotic.

Bottom line: This metal can will save your hearing if you shoot much.

N003k
December 14, 2008, 05:32 AM
Thanks to this post and some of the help given in it, I'm actually now looking into getting one for my Stag-15 :P Turns out on top of everything else, even though I can't have a threaded BARREL on my rifle, they make threaded MUZZLE BREAKS to bypass that little restriction that can be legally pinned on, but allow removal and attachment of the suppressor...

Basically, thanks to everyone that gave advice in this thread!

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