Garand Slam Fire

[DMK]

I had a strange occurance with my '43 SA Garand this weekend. I was shooting 1980 Danish Surplus (the stuff that comes in Enbloc clips).

Twice, the rifle slamfired the second round in the clip (ie. Two round burst with the first pull of the trigger, the other six shot normally). The first time got my attention, but I had the sling wrapped securely around my arm and knew the rifle wasn't going anywhere, plus I figured it was probably a sensitive primer. Then about three clips later, it did it again. Also only on the second round in the clip. At that, I packed up the rifle and ammo and shot my Mosin for the duration.

I took the rifle apart when I got home and found nothing apparently wrong. I pulled the firing pin expecting that maybe it was gummed up, but it was pretty clean and rattled freely in the bolt. Is there anything else I should look for? Could weak springs cause this? I have a Wolff spring kit that I plan on installing.

I put about 600 rounds through the rifle before this with no problems at all. I do use grease at the proper lubrication points.

[AK103K]

Since this hasnt happened with other ammo, I'd check the Danish stuff first. Are the primers high? Has anyone else you know with a Garand have that trouble with that or your ammo? Is you gun a DCM gun? Has the headspace been checked? Can you try a different trigger group in it? I've personally had a Garand blow up on me due to a slam fire. I'm pretty anal about shooting them and the M1A, especially when it comes to ammo. If it does it on ammo other than the Danish, I'd definitly have somebody look at it. I'd probably have the headspace checked first anyway.

[hps1]

Many times a worn, or improperly "lightened" M1 trigger will cause rifle to double (or triple). If someone has stoned the hooks on the hammer and/or the sear and disconnect, or if any of these parts are worn, the disconnect (hinged part on trigger) can fail to capture the rear hook of hammer, hammer falls before sear can catch front hammer hook resulting in the double.

If your trigger weighs less than 4.5# this very well could be the cause.

Slam fires can, as you said, be caused by sensitive primers, but also by oversized cartridges and dirt/rust in chamber.

Regards,
hps

[DMK]

This is a DCM Service Grade gun. No mods at all on this gun. I got it in November and have only fired the 600 rounds of Danish.

As far as headspace, don't they check that? I was under the impression, they checked these things out before selling them.

It may just be the ammo. I was getting low on the first case, so I grabbed a couple bandoleers out of the second. Perhaps that second case is the problem. I'll have to check the dates and see if I still have some from the first case.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone else with a Garand to try it out in a different rifle.

[dfariswheel]

From the sound of it, I'd suspect a worn trigger/hammer assembly.

My old gun club was issued a bunch of DCM Garands, and several would "double".

I'd inspect the ammo for high primers, and replace the trigger and sear unit first, then the hammer, if necessary.

I'd bet replacing the trigger assembly will fix the problem.

[4v50 Gary]

Another vote to examine the trigger mechanism.

[JohnKSa]

It's possible to get a Garand to double under the right circumstances--even with a new trigger group.

Basically what you're doing is a variation on "bump-firing" the rifle.

Usually this happens when you have a very gradual trigger squeeze and are controlling the rearward motion of the rifle tightly as in the prone or benched positions.

You gradually squeeze the trigger until the rifle fires. The recoil of the rifle moves the entire gun backwards enough to take the light pressure from your finger off the trigger. The trigger resets. Your shoulder pushes the rifle back forward and the second round fires when the trigger pushes back against your trigger finger.

I did this the first time I shot my Garand from the bench. The trigger group in my rifle was new (looks like it had just been replaced) when I got it.

Go with a more deliberate pull of the trigger and I suspect you will never experience this again. You don't need to yank, but make sure that you pull all the way through smoothly and hold it after it breaks.

[DMK]

That's an interesting thought JohnKSa. You are describing exactly what I was doing.

I've got the rifle apart on the bench now. I will definately examine the trigger parts for wear and try some different ammo and a firmer trigger finger this weekend if the weather holds out.

[EOD Guy]

I believe that John KSa has hit the nail on the head. This is probably the most common cause of "doubles" with the Garand.

Rich

[Chipperman]

Sounds similar to bump firing, but unintentional. Can this happen with a Garand off hand also?

[AK103K]

I believe that John KSa has hit the nail on the head. This is probably the most common cause of "doubles" with the Garand.

I've been hearing about this on the boards more and more recently. I've been shooting the Garand and M14/M1A rifles for close to 40 years now and have never had this happen. I'm not saying it doesnt happen or this isnt the problem, just that I've never seen it or heard of it until just recently. I would think if it was a "common" problem, it would have surfaced long before this, or perhaps its showing up due to shooters these days learning on rifles that dont recoil like the older, larger caliber guns and they lack proper training or technique. (I also point out the number of complaints lately of how hard a M1 or M1A in 30-06 or 308 kick. These rifles dont have heavy recoil, at least in my book, so could some of this be the problem?) I rarely fire off a bench and maybe this is why I havent seen it, but I have fired literally tens of thousands of rounds over the years from the prone position without it ever happening. Do you think its lack of training or proper technique, or is it mechanical, as in the trigger groups, or ammo related? Most of the problems I've seen have been ammo related, especially with reloads.

[DMK]

These rifles dont have heavy recoil I agree. This Garand doesn't hardly kick at all. As a matter of fact, I usually bring it along to shoot while taking a break from my Mosin-Nagant 91/59 carbine. Now that rifle kicks!

[EOD Guy]

I think the problem occurs more when firing from the bench. I had it happen several times when I first fired my current Garand from the bench. It had all spec parts in the trigger group, so it wasn't a mechanical problem, but one of technique. Since I've made sure that I follow through, I haven't had any problem.

[foghornl]

I got in on this discussion late; I think others have covered it pretty well, sounds like "bump-fire" to me.

Visit the FAQ'S section on M-1's at Fulton Armory for some info on slam-fires.

www.fultonarmory.com

There are lots more sources of info, but the Fulton Armory is the first one that comes to mind for me.

[Gundolero]

While shooting my AK last weekend a similar thing happened. My brother, who had just finished firing his Mini14 was not prepared for the recoil of the 7.62 round. Sounded pretty cool for the two rounds to be fired in quick succession.:evil:

Got everyone else's attention too!:D

[DMK]

Sounded pretty cool for the two rounds to be fired in quick succession. It sounds cool, yea. But both times it happened to me, I had exactly 7 rounds on the paper. I assume the second round went somewhere about a foot over the target.

[JohnKSa]

My doubled round missed paper too.

At the shooting range I was using that day there's not much chance of it going over the backstop. I've shot at one range where a doubled round from the bench would almost certainly miss the backstop--especially at the longer distances.

[twoblink]

Load a clip, slam the gate, and then empty the gun without shooting. See if there's a "dimple" on the bullet, and just how big the dimple is... If it's fairly bit, might be a weak spring in the bolt.

Otherwise, I'm voting trigger group also.. But get it CHECKED...

Safety first.

[AK103K]

M1's dont have a spring on the firing pin. Any round you let the bolt go forward on will have a light primer indent.