Open Carry court case: West Allis City Courthouse on Tuesday December 16th at 8 am


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bnhcomputing
December 12, 2008, 12:33 PM
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/open_carry_in_court/
From the email.

If someone disagreed with you about an article or story you published and then complained to the police who came into your business and arrested you for disorderly conduct, would that incident be newsworthy?

What if the police arrested you for disorderly conduct while you were exercising any other constitutionally protected right because someone did not want you to exercise your right? Would you want to tell the people of Wisconsin how fragile it is to exercise their rights?

Once arrested, do you think an employer or all your friends and neighbors would understand or would some of them want to maintain more distance with you? Unfortunately, being arrested is the same thing as being found guilty to many people in the court of public opinion. The police don’t arrest innocent people just for exercising a constitutionally protected right after all. That would be outrageous.

Or do they?

Please come (or send a reporter) to the West Allis City Courthouse on Tuesday December 16th at 8 am when this question will be answered in court.

On August 22, Brad Krause was planting trees in his yard, at least until police stormed his residence and arrested him. It turns out they received a call from a man who said he didn’t appreciate that Brad carried a gun, and wanted something done about it.

The West Allis police department sent two squads to investigate, and found Brad in his yard, minding his own business planting trees. From behind him, police rushed him, yelling, “Don’t move!” while bearing down on him with their weapons drawn.

They shortly discovered Brad had no criminal record and was lawfully openly carrying on his own property, but instead of releasing him and returning his weapon, they tried to figure out how to arrest him. A call to the supervising lieutenant provided the answer: claim his action of carrying a weapon is disorderly conduct, and haul him down to the station. His firearm was taken away from him without a receipt, and it has not been returned. The police have effectively banned his exercise of his right by disarming him.

The fact is that Wis. Stat. § 941.23 does not ban or prohibit the lawful carrying of firearms by citizens. By enacting the law, the legislature intended to force citizens to openly carry their firearms while in public, which is what Mr. Krause was lawfully doing (additionally, he was on his own property).

Mr. Krause is self employed as a property manager and this action by the City of West Allis has cost him long term business relationships. The police had him standing in handcuffs on his own property for 45 minutes with squad cars parked in front of his residence while they tried to figure out a way to arrest him. Fortunately, Mr. Krause had taken a friends advice and he had a voice recorder with him and the entire incident was recorded and it has been transcribed.

Civil rights are very important – all of them – which is why they are protected from governmental actions just like this. The media would be all over this story if a voter had been wrongly arrested while waiting in line to vote, or a worshipper had been arrested while attempting to enter their place of worship,

or a reporter was arrested while writing an article. The Wisconsin Supreme Court has said an otherwise reasonable exercise of police power cannot be invoked in a way that “eviscerates,” “destroys,” “frustrates,” or “nullifies” the constitutional right to bear arms, yet that is exactly what is being done by law enforcement departments all over Wisconsin today. In Wisconsin, constitutional rights do not expand the police power; they restrict the police power. See Buse v. Smith, 74 Wis. 2d 550, 564, 247 N.W.2d 141 (1976); see also Robert Dowlut & Janet A. Knoop, State Constitutions and The Right to Keep and Bear Arms, 7 Okla. City U. L. Rev 177, 185 (1982) (describing the general application of this principle).That is why this is such an important matter and I am asking for you to publically expose this unlawful use of police power.

If you can attend, please do so and support Mr. Krause

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General Geoff
December 12, 2008, 12:42 PM
I'm definitely rooting for him, but from the description it seems that the case is very much in his favour anyway.

Leanwolf
December 12, 2008, 04:34 PM
THE ARTICLE - "... Fortunately, Mr. Krause had taken a friends advice and he had a voice recorder with him and the entire incident was recorded and it has been transcribed."

First, if the article is correct as to what happened, I am in Mr. Krause's corner.

But, given the way the article reads, Mr. Krause was carrying a tape recorder, perhaps (??) anticipating being arrested. (??)

I doubt most of us carry a pocket tape recorder around with us all the time. I have one, but I don't carry it. It is used for business meetings I sometimes attend.

Just wondering.

L.W.

bnhcomputing
December 12, 2008, 05:47 PM
First, if the article is correct as to what happened, I am in Mr. Krause's corner.

But, given the way the article reads, Mr. Krause was carrying a tape recorder, perhaps (??) anticipating being arrested. (??)

I doubt most of us carry a pocket tape recorder around with us all the time. I have one, but I don't carry it. It is used for business meetings I sometimes attend.

Just wondering.
In Wisconsin Concealed Carry is ILLEGAL, therefore open carry MUST be legal so says our courts. However, LEO has been taught to arrest and charge with DC for open carry thus leaving us NO REMEDY in Wisconsin. It is common knowledge among those who choose to "open carry" that they risk arrest and that they should be prepared to defend themselves. Thus an attorney on retainer and a voice activated recorder.

Strings
December 12, 2008, 06:08 PM
I'd prefer if Monkeyleg weighed in here, but I guess I'll chime...

There are a couple really good possibilities with this case, if it goes up the chain. Won't say anything more than that.

We honestly want him found guilty at the local level though, so it CAN go up the chain...

jaholder1971
December 12, 2008, 08:38 PM
If this is a municipal court, he'll lose. It's not about right or wrong, but about revenue generation. Municipal courts rarely rule on constitutional matters when they can make the city a buck.

This will end up being appealed in the next higher court.

Leanwolf
December 12, 2008, 09:20 PM
BNH COMPUTING - "...It is common knowledge among those who choose to "open carry" that they risk arrest and that they should be prepared to defend themselves. Thus an attorney on retainer and a voice activated recorder."


BNH, thanks for that information.

I hope Mr. Krause wins his case.

L.W.

bnhcomputing
December 19, 2008, 09:01 AM
Well, the DA shows up and hands the judge some sort of last minute brief. The whole thing gets continued to February, and the guy still can't get his firearm back.

My only question is, where the hell is the NRA? Firearms are being seized from Wisconsin residents, at least two(2) cases I know of in 2008, and the NRA is MIA.

kornesque
December 21, 2008, 02:58 PM
Seriously? Is there any more to this story? I've heard of blatant disrespect for RKBA by LEO, but this? Please tell me there's more going on...

Strings
December 21, 2008, 06:10 PM
No, there's likely no more going on than the Powers That Be being very anti in the Milwaukee area...

ZombieHunter
December 21, 2008, 11:10 PM
So...any word on how it went? 12/16 was the hearing it's 12/21 now

misANTHrope
December 21, 2008, 11:15 PM
So...any word on how it went? 12/16 was the hearing it's 12/21 now

Look back a couple posts:

Well, the DA shows up and hands the judge some sort of last minute brief. The whole thing gets continued to February, and the guy still can't get his firearm back.

My only question is, where the hell is the NRA? Firearms are being seized from Wisconsin residents, at least two(2) cases I know of in 2008, and the NRA is MIA.

ZombieHunter
December 21, 2008, 11:21 PM
>.< sorry. i read the second paragraph and not the first thanks.

bnhcomputing
January 29, 2009, 12:49 AM
Tuesday, February 17th, 2009, 8:00 AM
West Allis Police and Court Center
11301 W. Lincoln Avenue
West Allis, Wisconsin 53214
(414) 302-8000

http://www.ci.west-allis.wi.us/about/city_maps.htm

ServiceSoon
January 29, 2009, 12:49 PM
Please update us on Feb 18th.

bnhcomputing
March 16, 2009, 04:01 PM
First, the judge found Mr. Krause NOT GUILTY of disorderly conduct.

Second, the judge ruled you could carry long guns (shotguns, rifles) into bars in Wisconsin.

Third, the judge did NOT give Krause back his firearm.

Fourth, Krause did have a plain-clothes officer come to his home apparently to return his firearm. The officer tried to hand him a brown paper bag.

If Krause had accepted it, they could have gotten him for concealed which is illegal in Wisconsin. It has to be unloaded and encased in a case "specifically designed" for a firearm. A bag does not meet this criteria.

Krause was on the ball, and asked the officer to remove the firearm, open the action to ensure it was unloaded, and then hand it to him.

According to Krause, the officer did it in an unsafe manner. Krause’s gun was all marked up with some kind of silver paint and when he asked the officer how he was supposed to clean it; the officer said "mineral spirits, WD-40, or gasoline."

You can hear all about it here: http://www.sportsradio1250.com/CUTTING-EDGE-OUTDOORS/1115758

It starts about 18 minutes into hour 1 and continues into hour 2.

Give a listen to hour 2, where the ex-cop says he would arrest Krause because he would violate local ordinances. Wisconsin has a firearms pre-emption law; local ordinances cannot be stricter than state statue.

Dokkalfar
March 17, 2009, 03:05 PM
wow... that is really bad. he really should sue for their behaviour. i dont know about there, but in texas its a felony for a cop to make up laws and try them out on you. im just glad he didnt get 'caught' by any of those attempted tricks on him :/

Brad_Krause
June 11, 2009, 04:50 PM
The hosts of Cutting Edge Outdoors have generously offered part of their show on Saturday, June 13th for discussing our rights. The show can be heard in the Milwaukee area on WSSP Sports Radio 1250 AM and also streams online from http://www.sportsradio1250.com/ by pressing the Listen Live button on the top right.

I encourage you to call in between 6 and 8 AM and contribute your thoughts about our rights and explain things like why our rights are important, why gun control isn't about guns, and who is trying to pass ordinances and legislation to further restrict our rights. (414) 799-1250

If you have trouble remembering topics you want to talk about I can post either a brief or somewhat longer summary of "the big picture" and where we stand--just ask.

Although they've invited me to be a guest and I'll be happy to answer your questions, I'm more interested in what you have to say. Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Open Carry court case: West Allis City Courthouse on Tuesday December 16th at 8 am" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!