Which 9mm?


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17poundr
December 12, 2008, 04:38 PM
Now, I know, I know, most of you are thinking "why does it have to be a 9mm"?

And indeed, there is no good reason why it should be, but being an European, and having looked at gun sites and read gun magazines, and having discussed handguns at the range, I get the impression that appart from America (and perhaps Latin America too, meaning Mexico-Central and South America), the 9x19mm seems to be the most commonly used caliber in the semi-auto guns being used today.

So, if we limit to this field, I would like to get your oppinions (and learn some with any luck), about which 9mm semi-auto handgun you think takes the number one spot? (I'm not aware of any 9x19mm revolvers that are out there in great numbers, but again I'm shure there is more to learn about that too)...

I myself trained on a FN made 'copy' of the Browning hi power in the Finnish army, and must commend it for being very easy to shoot (at least I think that's what it was :confused: how long has the 'basic FN-9mm' for sale now been going)?).

After that, I would put the Sig-226 (the regurlar no frills version, as there were none of the specialist types for rent, I would love to try out the p-226 Equinox though).

And then there is the cz-75. Now this is Finlands most popular semi-auto handgun, the very good price to quality ratio of the CZ-75b!

I saw a website that was dedicated to this very issue, and maybe some of you have read it (check it out, I thought it's pretty good reading, and made for US residents, at least the prices are in USD http://www.best9mm.com/ ).

After reading that site, I really would love to try the 'baby eagle', otherwize my ambitions lay in other guns of other calibers, and types of action (he said with the vivid image of a 5inch barrel S&W 627 with the non fluted cylinder in his mind)...

Please share your views on the best 9mm handguns that you know of!

Mr poundr.

ps, I put on the article about the cz-75b, I think it does it justice.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89134&stc=1&d=1229117865

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tipoc
December 12, 2008, 08:33 PM
The information on the site below may be helpful to you.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm

Personally my choice is the Hi-Power and the CZ75.

There are a good many good 9mm guns out there. A lot depends on your needs and your tastes. But it's hard to go wrong with the CZ75.

tipoc

meef
December 12, 2008, 08:37 PM
Personally, if I could have only one (thankfully that's not the case), it would be a Hi-Power.

Nothing else compares - in my book.

:)

Marcus L.
December 12, 2008, 09:39 PM
What is the best 9mm? To everyone on this board it is their own personal favorite. ;)

Isher
December 12, 2008, 09:55 PM
CZ P-01.

Hands down.

Small physical envelope for concealed carry, minimal recoil, 14 round magazines available, torture tested by the Czechs for reliability, tackdriver.

That being said, I'm not into "work of art" guns.

I just like a gun I can rely on 365/7/24.


Isher

punkndisorderly
December 12, 2008, 10:02 PM
How about a Glock? I have a 26 for carry and a 34 for range/home defense use. While it's not sexy or exciting and it won't get you noticed at the range, it has its advantages. Fairly inexpensive, reliable to a fault, easy to take down, easy to clean, and holsters/accessories abound.

The Smith M&P is another worth checking into.

TOADMAN
December 12, 2008, 10:21 PM
Glock 19.. The most popular Glock in the entire Glock line-up.. Possibly the overall most popular 9mm..

17poundr
December 13, 2008, 05:17 AM
First, thanks for Tipoc for this good link!

" The information on the site below may be helpful to you.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm ".

It really seems like it's a threesome between the CZ, Browning(or FN, take yer pic), Hi-Power, and the Glocks... (although I didnt quite know what was meant by the 'zc P-01' that Isher mentioned, any pics or links on that)?

I havent had the pleasure of firing a Hi-power, but I guess the FN's that we had in the Finnish army back in 1990-91, were some kind of 9mm Hi-power guns, as I seem to remember they resembled the general appearance. Nowadays the Finnish army has the Walther P-99 as their handgun.

I have shot the Glock-17 though and It was a very good all round gun. The fact that I didnt remember anything special about it, isnt bad at all, what I think it means is that it functioned flawlessly, thus giving me the impression of smooth shooting, and one thing that I must point out is that when one is in say minus 17c, then the metal trigger and slide of the older FN's were pretty darn nasty on the fingers (before they went completely numb ofcourse, but then we couldnt hardly rack the guns anyway, this was a one off four hour session to get us into the feeling of what it's like to shoot without anykind of gloves on in the Finnish winter, and man it hurts)!

So, for taking that into mind, the polymer Glock is perfect for wintertime, as most normal gloves for warming up the hand, are almost impossible to shoot with!

And as we are on polymer guns, I shure would love to try the Springfield XD, and the Walther p99! Although I'm not shure if they are similar in being 'true polymer guns', or if the p99 has only some polymer parts in it...:confused:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89179&stc=1&d=1229163378

Having said that, I do have a thing for 'good old iron guns', and I would love to try out the imported Turkish made Armalite-24, and the EAA, Zastava, the Zastava is said to be very much like the sig (I assume they mean the sig-226).

Please keep your info coming in!

Mr poundr.

PAPACHUCK
December 13, 2008, 06:16 AM
I own 4 9mm's;

Overall favorite = Sig P229

Everyday carry 9mm = Glock 19

Pocket pistol = Kel-Tec P11

Range gun = Beretta 92FS


Yes, I like the 9mm.

Pilot
December 13, 2008, 06:48 AM
All Browning Hi Powers are made by FN, so whether its FN or Browning labeled its the same gun. I'd either go Hi Power or CZ.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 13, 2008, 11:48 AM
Also a big fan of CZ75 family, Browning Hi-Power, Kahrs, and 1911s (which can be had in 9mm), and to a lesser extent, Sigs.

ZeBool
December 13, 2008, 12:40 PM
I would go Springfield or H&K, the XD is cheaper but I love the P30

Isher
December 13, 2008, 01:27 PM
17poundr -

Here ya go -

http://czcustom.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=440&osCsid=309413aa6e7f1bef97c03a6c1dd093db

I have a pair of them.

One house gun.

And one which goes everywhere I go.

Isher

george29
December 13, 2008, 01:38 PM
I like the 9mm. It is not the same weak round that was produced decades ago but Americans were brought up on the Bigger-is-Better mentality. This why we have huge vehicles (but Toyota is leading the Big Three) and why we have huge butts (Super Size me). Europeans traditionally set minimal requirements on their lifestyles (I spent many years in European Countries). The French eat very well but small proportions, Italian men think nothing of riding scooters instead of motorcycles. The 9mm of today is as every bit and perhaps better than the .45 in many ways. This comment will get me flamed but I assure you that even Jeff Cooper would not totally disagree with the 9mm when it was properly loaded with the right bullet weight, configuration and velocity. Jeff did in fact believe that the Browning High Power, the same thing Europeans call the FN Browning or FN Herstal, was the best platform to shoot the 9mm.
I have done much research into the 9mm, carried it for over a decade in the Mark III configuration as my primary carry whilst in uniform and love its classic design and reliability. However, were I to get a 9mm that would serve as my everything gun, if I were restricted to one gun because of my spouse or government, I would have to say that the Glock 17 or 19 are the best choice for reliability, comfort, interchangeability, repairs, accuracy and firepower. The 19 does not properly fit my hand because of the grooves, the 17 was fine and I can't remember now why I got rid of the one I owned. The Glock has very good resale value and is easy to get rid of, more than any other weapon on the market. Personally, I defend myself with revolvers, but if I were to bet on any one handgun, I would go the Glock route, and I don't say this lightly for I think they are ugly and boxy, but they have a great reputation, are cheap to customize or repair and are adequate for most jobs dealing with two legged, and certain 4 legged creatures. The Glock will also shoot +P+ and MG rounds. The FN/HP has been known to crack its frame because of +P ammo. Metalurgy is much better but they still advise against it.

There are more comfortable guns (S&W Sigma), there are more advanced guns (S&W M&P), There are lighter guns and everything in between guns. I personally have had the pleasure of owning / carrying in 9mm: Jericho & Baby Jericho, Beretta 92FS, Glock 17, CZ75, FN MKIII, S&W 6904, 5904, Ruger P89. I have examined the Rami, Cheetah, P11, Star, Bersa, G19 & 26, XD, HK, Sigs, EAA Witness (metal & polymar), Kahr PM9 and probably a few others.

I still stand with going with a Glock (for Europeans), and trust me, I find saying this very difficult.
I also would choose a properly loaded 9mm over a properly loaded 45, and the 1911 was my first love and it still is a wonderful classic design. But a Glock 17 with a +2 mag extension is 19+1 of +P+ power. that's close to three times the capacity of a normal .45 and 100/115/124/127/147 grains of +P+ going at 1100-1500 fps is nothing to mock.

The next closest weapon in 9mm is the M&P, some say it is better than the Glock. For you in Finland, the Glock is more recognizeable, for me here in the States, I could choose either and be OK.

tipoc
December 13, 2008, 04:58 PM
You can view some of the other CZ products here...

http://www.czusa.com/

The other nines mentioned also have their sites.

tipoc

The Bushmaster
December 13, 2008, 05:21 PM
Pick one...If it works 100% of the time...It's yer favorite...

mongo4567
December 13, 2008, 05:31 PM
I like the Glock 17, Beretta 92FS, and Browning HP.

DawgFvr
December 13, 2008, 06:08 PM
After many weapons...I now CCW the Glock 26 in a MTAC holster.

Comfortable...reliable...light weight...and 11 rounds of hollow point 9mm will solve most any social problem.

modifiedbrowning
December 13, 2008, 06:21 PM
Definitely check out the Walther P99. The best polymer pistol IMO.

the foot
December 13, 2008, 06:28 PM
I own a Browning Hi-Power and a SIG P228. Both function flawlessly, both shoot straight. I recommend either of these. My next 9mm will be the CZ75.

amprecon
December 13, 2008, 11:49 PM
Not very well-known or popular, but this little gem has been totally accurate and reliable and the price just can't be beat at $350 out the door. Now it may not be as polished or refined as the other leading mfg's, but what do you want to do with it, stick it in a glass presentation case or use the heck out of it? With a 13-round magazine it has a very nice grip and as I could pick any weapon out there to carry I use this the Bersa Thunder 9 Ultra-Compact.
It has an aluminum-alloy frame and a decocking safety which I felt more comfortable with for carrying than I did with my Glocks.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=72131&d=1201713637

Sunray
December 14, 2008, 12:08 AM
"..."why does it have to be a 9mm"?..." 'I want one', is reason enough. Please reduce the size of your pictures. And go buy a Browning High Power. An Inglis, if you can find one.
"...not the same weak round that was produced decades ago..." It was never 'weak'. Jeff Cooper decided it wasn't powerful enough. He also thought a bolt action rifle should have its scope on the barrel. His 'Scout rifle' idea was one of his sillier ideas.

CPshooter
December 14, 2008, 03:55 AM
Glock 19. It's still my favorite all-around handgun. I own several handguns, but the 19 is still the most versatile, best performing all-around gun that I own. I love it!

Here is a crappy pic of mine w/ night sights and a glock 17 mag w/ a +2 factory extension for a total capacity of 19+1. The stock 15rd mag is also loaded w/ gold dots, and the 33rd Glock mag loaded with WWB FMJ is just for "backup." :)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/photo-31.jpg

Forgot to mention that the 9mm is a great round. Don't listen to the non-believers! A good 9mm JHP can do the same thing as a .40 or .45. I own all 3 calibers, and still stand by this statement.

17poundr
December 15, 2008, 04:40 PM
good posts chaps! And thanks again for this: 17poundr -

Here ya go -

http://czcustom.com/catalog/product_...c03a6c1dd093db

I have a pair of them.

One house gun.

And one which goes everywhere I go.

Isher

I looked at it and it could be a good carry gun. Otherwize I would stay with the 4.4 inch barrel on the cz-75 rather that the 3.9inch barrel on the cz-01, but for carry, now that makes the 01 a good option.

Thanks for bringing the Bersa to my attention. I always have equated Bersa with the imho good looking .380 Bersa (that looks rather like a Walther PPK), it's good to know that they make a 9x19mm gun too. Bersas are pretty cheap, how much is that 9mm? is it about 3-400usd new?

The slovakian madeK100 seems interesting, check it out http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89372&stc=1&d=1229377697
does it have anything to do with the east european factory that makes the springfield XDs?
I noticed that nobody has mentioned the Ruger 9mm's. They are good, and durable I have heard. Also the Beretta storm got praise from a guy on the forums. The EAA Zastava gives a sig-226 performance but for half the price!(About 400+ usd). And the Sig-226 shoots a bit tighter double tap groupings than the Hi-power (at least according to the two SAS soldiers showing the SAS kit in a tv program, the two handguns they use, are the older Browning hi-power and the newer Sig-226)... ( http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_194_32/ai_n25469389?tag=rbxcra.2.a.3 ).
There is a new 9mm from Taurus, it's based on the model 92 with the shorter 4 inch barrel, and has a whopping 20round magazine!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89371&d=1229377550

The armalite ar-24 is reportedly a very good all metal handgun, of good quality (made as all guns were back in the 'good old days'), and has similary quality made parts as in the good old CZ-75b. ( http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_53/ai_n27161899/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1 ) http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89368&d=1229377408

I would love to own an XD. And here is a very special camo scheme on the 9mm xd! : http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89370&d=1229377481

And then there are the high end guns, to name one is the German Korth. Now that is such hi quality, that it will set one back by over 4000euros! But it must be worth it. And like most EU nation built guns, it's a 'niner'.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89369&d=1229377449
I saw a great reasoning on why the 9mm has been considered worse than it is in the US, it was to do that when the 38special was the most used round in the US (before ww2), the US looked down on the smaller looking 9mm parabellum. What many americans didnt know back then was that the 38special used an older fashioned powder in it's cartridge, and was pretty much filled up with it.

But the 9mm parabellum was designed for the new 'smokeless powder', more to the tune of modern fast burning propellants. This means that the 9x19mm cartridge is not near filled up with propellant, something that explains why it's more powerful than the larger 38special.

This explained the thing to me too, as I had wondered when holding the 38special in my hands, that 'how can this be deemed less poweful than the 9mm?

Not only is the 9mm a great all rounder but pretty good for smaller usually 3inch barrelled semi pocket handguns, as the .40cal and the .45apc might kick too much, and flip the barrel too high for good double taps. I did like the makarov in 9x18mm I must confess, no recoil to speak of, I would use it as a carry/backup gun. And the 9x17mm'kurz', has it's usages in similar guns too... But all in all I would put my faith for various reasons in these hangun calibers: the 22lr (plinking deluxe, and a great training ammo for 1911 kits), 327magnum(pretty darn good according to what I have read, finally a '32' that delivers proper punch similar to a light 9mm), 9x19mm, 357magnum (both the original and the new 357sig), .40s&w, 10mm, 45apc and the magnum44.

From these calibers the 9mm is a pretty good 'all rounder'. And that is probably why it's arguably the worlds most commonly used handgun ammo.


Here is what I pasted from ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum ', : As mentioned above, the .357 Magnum was developed from the earlier .38 Special. This was possible because the .38 Special was originally designed to use black powder, which requires two to five times as much powder by weight to produce the same velocity with the same bullet as does the much more efficient smokeless powder. Thus the .38 Special has a relatively large case. The 9 mm Para was introduced the same year (1902) but was originally designed for smokeless powder, and for higher pressures (~35,000 psi). It therefore produces considerably more energy than the .38, despite its case having less than 1/2 the powder capacity. Most 9 mm powder charges fill the case to the base of the bullet, and some are heavily compressed. Many .38 Special loads use the same powders, in similar charge weights, but because the case is so much larger, those charges only fill the case about half full. Light target loads with fast burning powders may only fill the case perhaps 1/8 full. Filling the case with slower-burning powders produces much more power, but also much more pressure; far too much pressure for older, smaller-frame revolvers chambered in .38 Special. It was to accommodate these high-pressure, high-power loads that the longer .357 Magnum, together with the stronger revolvers designed to handle it, were developed.

This explains what I was trying to say about the 9x19mm round being so efficient despite it's rather smallish size.

Thanks and keep up the posts. :)
Mr poundr.

tbtrout
December 15, 2008, 10:04 PM
I am partial to the CZ 75. I liked the Walther P99 and Sig P226. I do want a BHP. But I chose the CZ first and have no regrets. Until recently it was the sleeper in the US handgun market.

mblat
December 15, 2008, 10:12 PM
Best gun in 9mm on the market TODAY or over all? If TODAY it HAS to be police trade-ins P7s. One can have it for about $600 ( in free state - and since I live in CA I've paid about $800 ) and that makes it very competitive.
I am not even such big HK fan - I've sold all HK I had EXCEPT P7. It is truly in the class of it's own. Size closing on sub-compact with 4" barrel, VERY reliable, ridiculously accurate, excellent workmanship.....

Best 9mmm overall? I am partial to cz75B and for the money it is probably the best gun, but have to say that S&W MP providing very stiff competition.....

1SOW
December 15, 2008, 10:29 PM
Competition? CZ: CZ Custom Shop SPO1 w/trigger interrupt removed?, Shadow? Australian Shadow with longer barrel? STI with bells & whistles?, XDM?
Carry? Sig 239? 229? 226? XD
Looks? 1911-9mm?, STI?, Sig? All with tricked up options
Range guns?: CZ75B SA w/competition rear and FO front sights,

Blue Brick
December 15, 2008, 10:33 PM
Ruger P89

benderx4
December 15, 2008, 11:29 PM
Lots of excellent weapons mentioned in this thread - I doubt you'd go wrong with any of them. My favorites:
HK P7M8
HK P30
Beretta 92FS
CZ 75 SP-01

Ben86
December 16, 2008, 12:08 AM
The 9mm luger will do if you'll do. It's my favorite handgun cartridge.

I'd have to say the Glock 19 is one of the most versitile, bang-for-buck handguns around. Can't go wrong there.

A couple other goodies are the S&W M&P9 and the Springfield XD.

What makes the Korths so good?

shamus
December 16, 2008, 06:18 PM
Now, I know, I know, most of you are thinking "why does it have to be a 9mm"?

That thought never occurred to me. If I was a kool-aid drinking 1911 fanboy, it might. But my brain is rooted in reason.

9mm, 40, 45..whatever works best for you..in whatever platform that works best for you.

Weedmonk
December 16, 2008, 08:38 PM
In 9mm, I own Browning HP, Beretta Cougar, Sig P220, Springfield 1911-A1 Custom Compact, and Glock pistols. If I could only own one 9mm handgun, it would be a Glock G19. If I could only own one handgun of any caliber, it would be a Glock G19.

crushbup
December 16, 2008, 09:10 PM
How rare is the SIGP210 over there? It's supposed to be one of the best shooting 9mms in the world. The only thing that keeps me away from buying one is that in the U.S., prices exceed $1500 quite regularly.

czrami9
December 17, 2008, 08:59 AM
CZ P01 if I could only have one. Great shooter, good size, amazing... :D

onebigelf
December 17, 2008, 10:10 AM
I have a great Charles Daly Hi-power that I've carried for a couple of years. I love it, but going to sell it in favor of going back to a Glock 19 for it's low maintenance now that my wife has her own pistol (She can't shoot the Glock). The CD is relatively inexpensive, well made, accurate, has a commander hammer and great sights. Unfortunately they aren't being made anymore because CD was selling them to cheaply for what they were putting into them. Great pistols, but they weren't making enough money on them. With the features they were putting into them they would have had to price them at the same point or higher than the FN's. People still go "Charles who?" and aren't going to pay that. They might bring them back once they have established themselves enough to be able to charge what they are really worth.

John

searcher451
December 17, 2008, 03:41 PM
Here's another vote for the Walther P99 in either the full-sized or the compact model. It's a terrific performer and is highly underrated, even among gun enthusiasts these days. I've got one of each, shoot them frequently, and have never had a missfire or so much as a hiccup in thousands of rounds.

Shenanigans
December 17, 2008, 03:50 PM
I own an FNP-9 and I have nothing bad to say about it. I put about 600 rounds though it recently between cleanings and there wasn't a hiccup to speak of. It feeds every ammo I've put through it just fine. It comes with three magazines, two backstrap options, recoil is incredibly managable, and it's very accurate. Plus, they've got outstanding customer service (from what I've heard). I bought mine for a little over $400 after transfer fees brand new in the box.

welldoya
December 17, 2008, 04:23 PM
I own three 9mms - a Browning HP, a Glock 19 and a CZ-75. You can't go wrong with either of them.

Mike OTDP
December 17, 2008, 04:26 PM
P-210. Match-grade accuracy, match-grade trigger...in a service pistol. And as durable as the average brick. 9mm is known for stressing guns - and the P-210 is known for going through enough ammo to wreck a Browning GP without missing a beat.

Claude Clay
December 17, 2008, 04:45 PM
hipower for idpa and house gun. fits 1911 holster
p239 comp conv bbl for idpa and training
p11 carry and training
cz52 conv bbl for fun
92fs idpa and training --sold

m13s
December 17, 2008, 06:27 PM
Walther P88 if you can afford it. Mine is sweet and all the .45 guys I know that I let shoot it, admit it is the best 9mm handgun they ever shot.

the Cost and Mags are a killer though.

monkyboy1975
December 17, 2008, 07:04 PM
The Hi-Power. They are relatively easy to find and have been in production for a long time. Excellent ergonomics, points nicely and high capacity as well.

midiwall
December 17, 2008, 09:27 PM
I'm brand new here, but...

I've always been drawn to the 9mm's as well. I can't put my finger on it short of saying that "it just seemed right".

I'm lucky enough that my local range has a good assortment of 9mm's to try, and I went through all that they had. S&W, Sig, Glock, Beretta... I fell in love with the overall feel of the Glocks, and was about to buy a Glock 19 - until I spotted the Glock 34 that they just added to the case.

About 10 rounds into a box of ammo and I knew what I wanted. It took a while to find one, but it was well worth it.

It's a VERY smooth weapon, yet has a satisfying punch to keep you entertained. :) I've since gone back and shot the 17 and 19, and now I understand their "charm" better. They're a bit more lively to fire, and of course easier to carry.


That all said - I think I'll stay with the 9's and my next one will be a Walther P99. There's something fun about power in a small package. But then there's the Kahr K9:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/244/products_id/16133

I buddy of mine just pointed me to that - gotta find one to try out. :D

17poundr
January 7, 2009, 03:20 AM
Exellent links guys! Thanks a million!!! :)

I saw one bloke put up the Kahr. I belive this is one of the most dependable 'DAO', guns for self defence carry out there... Or is it? I have perhaps an unnatural advercity to DAO semi autos, as I havent fired one myself (all semi autos have been SA or DA-SA, I did fire a revolver in the DA mode, but I belive that the pull on the trigger is harder because the revoving cylinder has to be rotated as well as pulling back the hammer/stricker (sorry not quite familiar with the english terminology). Is a 'regurlar', DAO semi-auto (I guess about ten pounds pull), much easier than pulling one fat drum revolver? Something in me thinks 'No way'!

Mr Poundr...

ps, I put a picture of another extra expencive high quality gun, from the same source as the Korth i belive, this is in .45apc, and called the Korrphilla. I could be wrong, but they are both German at least and look as if they were similar... I belive that the Korth is like some of the US gunsmithed 'for order', .45apc 1911s which can easily go into the 3-4thousand usd bracket. The grips on the Korth are some incredibly suave material...

I also put a pic of the 'other 9mm's'... Meaning the 9x18 'Makarov', and the 9x17 'kurz', or the .380auto as it is also called. Not a bad choise for a small carry gun, I shot the makarov and found it a pleasurable experience.

Only consern was that the sights are kind of short, so one must practice with it, I was hitting high from 15meters, and missed 1 out of 3 headshots. But that's what you get when you are in the '3.something inch barrel length guns'...

chriske
January 7, 2009, 04:24 AM
It's such a tough choice, I ended up owning both : FN Hi Power and CZ-75B.
I still can't tell which is best: they are both top grade..

Later on I bought a SIG 210-6, just because the price was too good to pass up.
Up to 15 meters, it doesn't shoot any better han the other two, although it is incredibly slick & the trigger IS a dream.

johnnylaw53
January 7, 2009, 07:05 AM
there are many good 9mm's, for range, HD i have had great luck with the beretta 92's only draw back is as a CCW

Be safe

Doc_Jude
January 7, 2009, 08:32 AM
Looking for a good 9mm? Try the Sphinx 3000 Tactical Titanium in 9mm.
http://www.sphinxarms.com/bilder/3000tac_tit.gif

midiwall
January 7, 2009, 10:28 AM
In my post a couple of weeks ago, a mentioned the Walther P99... that lust has been replaced by the Sig 239. Lotso fun to shoot, carries well, holds 8+1. The downside is that it's pricey... Figure on paying just under $800 for one. (if you can find one)

sprice
January 7, 2009, 10:55 AM
i think these are the best, the highest quality 9mms on the planet.

Hoot Gibson
January 7, 2009, 12:08 PM
Hi Point, save yourself some money, and get bang for you buck....use the saving and buy ammo.

Norinco982lover
January 7, 2009, 12:41 PM
A good friend of mine picked up the Sig 239 (with wood grips) as his first handgun. He couldn't hit much with it and generally began to hate it. Finally traded it in at Gander Mountain for a SA XD-9 subcompact.

He loves the XD and is very accurate with it. I'm looking at getting one myself:) My CZ-75b is pretty sweet too:)

~Norinco

inSight-NEO
January 7, 2009, 12:55 PM
A good friend of mine picked up the Sig 239 (with wood grips) as his first handgun. He couldn't hit much with it and generally began to hate it.

My wife uses this gun and wouldnt you know it, she shoots better with my P220 45. Since the P239 is a small gun, I think it just takes getting used to vs the larger variety. I have had trouble shooting this thing as well (it has the DAK style trigger). However, the more I practice with this thing, learning to compensate for the guns small size and DAK trigger, I have found that its accuracy potential is very good. Hopefully, my wife will find this out as well...one day.

Personally, I think the DAK might be the biggest issue in terms of aiming well with this one. Prior to buying it, both she and I shot a similar P239 but with the standard DA/SA trigger. I shot 2"-3" groups right off the bat; she followed that with roughly the same.

Good thing about the DAK, though, is that there is essentially only one trigger pull to learn.

But, if I had to do it all over again I probably would have gone with a "standard" P226. But, she needed a more concealable weapon, so...

Only negative thing I have to say about Sigs, in general, is that most of them have an aluminum frame. This, from what I understand, may limit the use of +P or +P+ ammo on a regular basis. Since I tend to practice with what I use for HD, this becomes an issue. So, I tend to stick with standard pressure ammo (Federal LE Hi-Shok 115g.-[9BP]) when it comes to the P239. For my P220, Im not worried so much as I believe standard pressure .45 ACP JHP's are plenty capable for HD use.

Doc_Jude
January 7, 2009, 10:45 PM
The problem with small guns is that if you don't have the right grips, & don't shoot with it enough, you just never get used to the short sight radius.
YOU MUST SHOOT SMALLER GUNS MORE IN ORDER TO GAIN ACCURACY, whether they be semi-autos or snub revolvers, even though odds are that your quality guns are more accurate than you are.

17poundr
January 8, 2009, 06:50 AM
First exellent posts guys, please give more!:)

Then before I forget.

Doc Jude pointed out another central European gem. The Swiss Sphinx! Now this is also in the multi thousand braket, and belive it or not this suave gun that costs a lot, is the Swiss army standard issue sidearm (or do I stand corrected :confused:, 'ach, my memory just aint what it used to be :rolleyes:)...:)

Then another good point from Hoot Gibson, indeed I too have 'window shopped' the Hi-Points on the net, and if I had a fiew guns (as I would did I live in the US, 'NEVER FORGET HOW UNIQUE YOUR LAWS ARE IN A WESTERN STYLE DEMOCRACY')!

I would indeed buy one, probably the 9mm, because I dont belive that the cheapness buys loads of recoil buffering, and/or extra long lifetime when firing heavier loads, so the .40 and .45apc models are out for me. The 9mm it is then.

Why? Well past the obvious having a cheap training gun, that you can really bash up if willing to include stuff like slides to the ground, rolling to one side, and other stuff that anybody from a military background will remember, there is one point that I read in Guns and Ammo magazine (or was it another US gun mag, ach my memory:banghead:).

That reason was given by a legal advisor, who said that it doesnt pay to have your most expencive collector gun as your self defence gun as in most states it is kept as evidence if used, and sometimes even if you are found not quilty of any wrongdoing when defending yourself, the gun stays with the police/state judiciary system anyway!

I seem to remember the guy showing a second hand 1911 that had cost him very little, but was in essence nearly as good as a 1000usd new 1911, so it's smart to have a backup.

Now, if one doesnt want a hefty 1911 (or if it's a 3inch barrel, risk the reduced aiming quality), then carrying a 9mm is reasonable, and if one goes by the 'circa seven yard', average gunfight distance, then the Hi-point will do with well trained point shooting, and other skills that have been drilled into automation with the hi-point as one would with say a Glock 19, that is if the range is circa 6meters...

And if it's in ones home, then the range cannot be much father away...

But, then again, I think 500usd isnt a lot for ones life, and so a new 9mm in the 500 braket would be a bit better, and if the range of the shooting increases then it's probably a lot better, also there is the very simple and for some countries only choise of having ones training, fun and self defence gun all in one, so then it certainly would be probably one on this list...(check out this list again: http://www.best9mm.com/)

Having said that if somebody would drop a Sphinx, Korth, STI, ect, ect high quality gun with the according paper work through my letterbox, I certainly wouldnt moan!

And as a tribute to some of the most cool looking objects that can be adult boys toys too (if one has a reason in ones mind), but even if used as a serious tool of self preservation only, it's the sheer functionality blended in with beautiful metalwork, and sometimes even p, p, plastic. "ARG he said the 'p*****c' word!!!" Sorry, in Polymer, they do look juicy too... And so I leave you with another totally biased look at those handguns that just are great looking in themselves.

Got a little carried away there... :o Mrpoundr.:rolleyes:

So I was going on about carry guns, here are two of the 'other two 9mm's'...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90621&stc=1&d=1231414751

Also, the cheap gun consept was made in this Boberg, it's really simple, and pretty cheap too. Magazine holds 7 x 9x19mm I belive.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90622&stc=1&d=1231414751

This is a good looking gun that I dont know anything about, but I seem to remember comes in 9mm, and it's Israeli made AND IT LOOKS GOOD!:D the 'Bul Cherokee'...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90623&stc=1&d=1231414751

Then something that I guess is a 'semi pistolsmith made', the Elite series Sig-229. I certainly would love to have one!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90625&stc=1&d=1231414751

And this last poster pic, will probably make some of you USA citizens feeling patriotic. I can understand this, even though many people in Europe dont...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90626&stc=1&d=1231414751
BTW, is that a .380 or a .32cal???

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