[dak0ta]

Hi,

Was thinking of buying this single shot as an xmas gift for a first timer shotgunner.

I was looking at the 28" barrel with fixed modified choke? Is that the best option?

[ArmedBear]

I'm assuming you're referring to a 12?

Ouch. That's my opinion.

What do you mean, "shotgunner"? What will they do with it?

[dak0ta]

Yes I was referring to the 12 gauge? Is it better to get a limbsaver or opt for the 20 gauge?

The shotgun will be used for clays, and just shooting in general.

[NCsmitty]

Yes, that light single barrel 12ga will get your attention in no time.
A 20 ga would be more sensible for a beginner.

NCsmitty

[dak0ta]

How much tighter is the fixed full choke over the modified?

[ArmedBear]

I have an old Ithaca SuperSingle M66 in 20 with a 28" barrel and a hard buttplate.

It's fun to shoot at hand-thrown clays. It has a fixed Modified choke.

I'd go with 20. I played with a friend's 12 Gauge single shot when I was a kid (probably H&R, but was similar anyway, light with a hard buttplate). Didn't pick up another shotgun for years after. Not a good first experience.:)

I'd go with Modified. If in doubt, that's always my choice. Bear in mind, I've consistently broken trap targets from the 27 yard line (50-60 yards to the target) with IC. If you don't have a good reason, I wouldn't get a fixed Full gun unless it has a second barrel with a more open choke.:)

[MAX100]

Get a pump shotgun.


GC

[dak0ta]

I was thinking that one oughta just suck up the pain and shoot the single shot in 12 guage?

[Mike_NY]

Now you're talkin, lol...

I have a 12 gauge Tracker II (a Pardner with 24 inch rifled barrel and iron sights). I love it, nicely made and well worth the price. It kicks like a mule with 3 inch 1oz 1450fps sabot slugs. It's not painful, but it isn't shoot all day comfortable either. Much more tolerable with lighter 2 3/4 inch slugs.

There is overlap in the recoil continuum between 12 and 20 gauge. So depending what you shoot some 20 gauge loads could kick more than some 12s given equal weight guns. The H+R site lists the weight "range" of the Pardners at 5-6 lbs so the 20 is probably a slightly lighter gun than the 12. BTW, my Tracker II weighs 5.4 lbs according to my Berkely fish scale.

If any of the "general shooting" this gun will do includes hunting I'd go with the 12 gauge and just shoot light target loads for clay bustin. But that's me. If it's for someone who weighs less than 130 lbs or so, and/or keeping recoil to the absolute minimum is important then obviously the lightest target loads in a 20 gauge is the way to go. Or buy a heavier gun.

.........Mike

[Dirty Bob]

If you get an NEF Pardner 20 with screw-in chokes and the 26" barrel, you'll have a more versatile package. Just be ready to add some weight in the buttstock. My Youth model was 4 pounds, 11 ounces! It kicked pretty well with target loads but was brutal with slugs and buckshot -- like being slapped in the face.

Installing an NEF wood buttstock completely changed the shooting experience! I can now shoot buck or slug without a problem. Recoil is still strong, but manageable. Target loads are much gentler. I plan to take it one step further, though. I bought an Enfield WWII brass buttplate at the same time as the buttstock. I plan to install it, then cover it with the slip-on recoil pad I'm already using, to add several more ounces.

I love the short Youth model, especially now that it's more pleasant to shoot. It's a great little gun!

Best wishes,
Dirty Bob

[ArmedBear]

dak0ta you still haven't said what the gun would be for.

And no, "sucking up the pain" is utterly stupid.

Even champion trapshooters, with light loads, heavy shotguns and years of experience, often develop flinches that take a lot to undo.

If you're wanting someone to learn to shoot, giving them bad habits from the get-go is a TERRIBLE idea.

[monkyboy1975]

I think it would be best to go with the 28ga, for a new shotgunner.

[ArmedBear]

That depends entirely on what they'll do with it, monky.

The "experts' gauges" can really frustrate a new shooter if they go to the trap range.

Recoil isn't ALL that matters. But it does matter.

[monkyboy1975]

We wouldn't want a newb picking up a flinch, thats why I offerer up the 28. I hear of some instructors starting folks out on the 28 for that reason.

[Dave McCracken]

Son's NEF is a 12, 28" barrel, Full choke. It weighs about 5.5 lbs.

I worked up 3/4 oz loads for him to learn on. I've shot it with 1 1/8 oz loads, not pleasant at all.

I'd go for a pump. Less than $100 difference and a lot more gun with a lot less pain.

[oneounceload]

a 28 gauge for casual clays would be a great way to start out a new shooter, even better would be the 28 gauge Remington 1100 - mine is a lot of fun for 5-stand and sporting clays

[ArmedBear]

28 Gauge 1100 is a bit spendy.

The 1100 doesn't kick hard anyway; there's no reason I can think of not to get a 20 instead, if you really want an 1100.

But we were talking about guns for the price of a couple drinks at Starbucks, originally...

I worked up 3/4 oz loads for him to learn on.

Of course, with handloading, there are many intriguing options.:)

Winchester makes some ultra-light AA loads, as well, and Remington makes some light STS's, but then we're also talking about expensive ammo.

The question comes back to.... What is the gun FOR?

[Onmilo]

Um, a 12 guage single shot using 1 ounce, 1 1/8 ounce, or 1 1/4 ounce loads doesn't kick any harder than a 20 guage using those charge weights.

Get the Limbsaver pad regardless of the guage you choose.

I suggest the Topper 88 Deluxe with vent rib and choke tubes for shooting clay birds.

[bang_bang]

I've got a Pardner in both 12 and 20. The 12 is a newer gun, whereas the 20 is several years older and a bit heavier. Both have modified chokes.

The 20 is a good squirrel gun. The recoil is mild but do-able and is often shot with lighter loads.

The 12 is a beast. Lighter than the 20, this thing will rock your world with light target shells. A few years ago, I slapped in some 00 buck and chipped my front tooth. (I'm a lil guy, even littler 4 years ago when it happened):banghead:

Get the 20.

[ArmedBear]

Um, a 12 guage single shot using 1 ounce, 1 1/8 ounce, or 1 1/4 ounce loads doesn't kick any harder than a 20 guage using those charge weights.



Uh, yeah.

And when exactly was the last time someone learned to shoot a shotgun with 1 1/4 oz. 20 Gauge loads? Or handloaded 12 Gauge down to 7/8 oz.?

Cheap, but decent quality, bulk 20 Gauge ammo is usually 7/8 oz., 2 1/2 DE, which is a good deal lighter than ammo for the same price in equivalent 12 Gauge ammo.

I have handloaded ultra-low-recoil #8.5 shot 7/8 oz. 12 Gauge target loads, and have special-ordered a case of 24 gram low-pressure 16 Gauge ammo from Polywad, and that stuff all breaks clays and drops doves, with damn near the recoil of a .22LR. But is a beginner going to do that, or go to Wally World?