CALL TO ARMS: Ammo Ban And Registration Proposal Coming to a State Near YOU.


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Pat-inCO
December 5, 2008, 02:42 PM
Ref: http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
Proposed legislation to serialize ammunition.

I hear a lot of people whining about the proposals, lets DO something.

Actually ALL of us have the ability to at least hamper this stupid effort (the numbering [encoding] of ammunition). Simply by pointing up to the proposed legislators that their estimate of one half cent per round ($.005, per their web site) is seriously flawed.

- - - Begin "logic" against the proposal - - -

To accomplish what they propose, the inside of the case would need to be completely redesigned to maintain the structural integrity during firing. Since there is no provision for a military exemption, it would add millions of needless dollars to the cost of maintaining our military. If the decision is reached to exempt military ammunition from serialization, then it would require tracking of ALL military ammunition, something that is not required now. Once again, adding significant cost to the military.

Following the military line of thought: Three of the major calibers used by the military (9mm, 5.56 and 7.62x51) also have significant use by civilians for target practice. Do you really think the manufacturer would place the cost of serialization on the civilian populace? Please think again. Even with very significant purchases by the military, the civilian population purchases far and away the majority of ammunition. As such, the military would incur a significant charge, once again, increasing our military budget.

Current information tells us that there are about 200,000,000 guns, legally owned, within the United States (I have read numbers from 150,000,000 to 250,000,000, so let's use the "average" just for discussion). From the people that I know, the "average" gun owner has one box of ammunition for each gun he/she owns. I personally think that figure is low, but let's use it, just for a starting point. That means that there are 10 TRILLION (200 million times fifty) rounds of ammunition located in American households. 10 TRILLION rounds that this proposal would outlaw in 2011. That means that you would automatically produce either millions of felons, retroactively, or produce thousands of TONS of hazardous waste, all with ONE piece of legislation. Are you really sure you want to answer to that question?

To accomplish what they propose, they would be REQUIRING that there be NO reloading. This would produce significantly more metals in need of recycling. Why would anyone in their right mind require that more money be spent collecting and melting down of brass, when the majority of the empty brass is currently reused? How many millions will that cost?

Also in the line of reloading, estimates run from 25% to 50% of shooters reload ammunition. Most of those maintain enough components to handle about one year's shooting (they buy it on sale to save a large percentage of the shooting cost). The proposed legislation would either produce millions of felons, once again retroactively, or produce thousands of TONS of hazardous waste. You sure you want to answer to that question?

- - - End "logic" against the proposal - - -

The above paragraphs are an example of what could easily be said in E-mails to btaylor@gth-gov.com - the author of the proposed legislation template. i.e. BURY that clown in paperwork!

If each person were to post any suggestions for additional logic to bury the proposals, we could all copy the ones we like, make a few modifications and add it to the E-mails we send to the legislators involved. Remember, when legislators receive "form" letters, they pay far less attention to them - when they receive letters that say mostly the same thing but are unique, they realize that there are a LOT of really annoyed and well organized people watching. :cuss:

Department of redundancy department, let's BURY these clowns in electronic paperwork. Remember, legislators are convinced that for EVERY comment they receive, there are at least ten others with the same opinion that have not written. Let's let them know just how likely they are to be voted OUT, the next election (I STRONGLY recommend that you NOT threaten them with that. It will be significantly more effective if they come to that conclusion by themselves). :D

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KBintheSLC
December 5, 2008, 02:52 PM
Those weasels over at "ammunition accountability" have been trying to pass their slimy "technology" through in numerous State legislatures for quite some time now. I have major doubts that they will succeed. Even many left-leaning Dems see how ridiculous their proposals are.

taprackbang
December 5, 2008, 04:14 PM
Thank you for posting. Stupid proposals that go against common sense make me mad. Wonder which politicians got bought off to push this through.

ccsniper
December 5, 2008, 04:31 PM
just emailed him

Maximum1
December 13, 2008, 03:41 PM
Anti-gunners around the Country emboldened by the election of Obama and gains in the House and Senate are pushing anti-gun legislation from the renewal of the so called “Assault Rifle” Ban to the CONFISCATION then REGISTRATION OF ALL AMMUNITION that’s correct the “disposal” (let’s call it what it is, confiscation) of all of your ammunition, every last round if they are successful you will be able to buy only overpriced ammunition that will be registered to you in a government database. Eighteen (18) States have introduced bills pushing for confiscation of our ammunition. There is a small company (Ammunition Coding Systems) who is lobbying law makers both at the State and Federal levels this company is not only helping the anti-gunners to “price and regulate the Second Amendment out of existence” but also profit at the expense of our Rights.

Since the recent Supreme Court ruling which reaffirmed our Right to Keep and Bear Arms the anti-gunners are looking for ways to eliminate Our Rights the “Ammunition Accountability Act” is their SILVER BULLET, if they can’t take our guns away then take the ammunition! That what‘s really behind the push for ammunition legislation it has NOTHING to do with crime as claimed.

The facts are, criminals can and will continue to beat ANY and all gun laws including any form of confiscation and/or registration of ammunition. Crime statistics show an overwhelming majority of criminal’s who commit crimes do so with STOLEN GUNS AND AMMO.

We have the facts on our side: confiscation, registration and yes even “databases” has led to an INCREASE in crime all one has to do is look at the crime rates of those states or other countries with gun registration laws vs. those who do not restrict or register firearms of any kind including ammo. Case in point, let’s look at our northern neighbor Canada who imposed a mandatory gun registration for the same reasons given by the backers of ammo registration, since the Canadian government passed the law requiring gun registration the system has failed to catch a single criminal not only is Canada’s gun registration a complete and costly (billion-dollar boondoggle) failure since its enactment the VIOLENT CRIME RATE IS NOW DOUBLE THAT OF U.S.! (See link below for related article, you can also “Google” the topic).

That’s no surprise we’ve seen the same results all over the world including in this Country (U.S.) all one has to do is look at the crime rates of Britain, Australia, Canada, U.S. Districts or States like, Washington D.C. Illinois, Pennsylvania to see registration or banning of guns doesn’t work. So why are these laws being pushed? One can only conclude it has nothing to do with “crime” but everything to do with registration and the eventual abolishing of our Gun Rights.

Now is the time to get involved I urge EVERYONE to contact your State and Federal Representatives asking them to oppose any law which tries to establish laws which CONFISCATE AND REGISTER our ammunition. Just sitting back and claiming, “I will never turn in my ammo” NO LONGER APPLIES…Get off your butt, STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS! Call or write your Representatives today…Ban together with your fellow gun owners, attend public hearings to voice your opposition! THIS IS A CALL TO ARMS…preservation of our gun Rights!

LINKS:
Link to the company pushing the so-called it contains the links to the eighteen 18 US states who introduced legislation to CONFISCATION your ammo then require register all new purchases: http://ammunitionaccountability.org:80/Legislation.htm
CANADA'S GUN REGISTRATION FAILURE: VIOLENT CRIME RATE DOUBLE THAT OF THE U.S. http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/press-releases/cc_cn_crime_rate_double_us.htm
"Encoded Ammunition"/Bullet Serialization alert issued by NRA-IRA http://www.nraila.org:80/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=227&issue=005

mljdeckard
December 13, 2008, 04:11 PM
(Watching for pieces of falling sky overhead,)

AllAmerican
December 13, 2008, 04:48 PM
Right? No the sky is not falling. The bill has come up in several states and has failed in all of them if I recall correctly.

Everyone knows this is really only a threat made by the 3 guys who own the company with the technology to do it. Once they couldnt get the ammo manufacturers on board they took it to the government. The legislators know its a scam. Too many ways around it.

The legislators wont pass this until they figure out how to get paid out of it.

I do agree that being on the legislators is a good idea though.

SC quickly killed this bill last year and will kill it again.

Maximum1
December 13, 2008, 07:19 PM
"Right? No the sky is not falling. The bill has come up in several states and has failed in all of them if I recall correctly. "Everyone knows this is really only a threat"

Folks who like to say "Everyone knows" in most cases are completely ignorant of the facts. No everyone doesn't know especially the anti-gunners pushing this legislation. Is the "sky falling", NO is it time to insure it doesn't, YES.

If one took even a little time to read those bills (link provided above) one would see they have NOT been defeated furthermore you can check the bills status by going to the respective state legislative website.

Next time try to speak with data instead of making such an irresponsible statement like, "Everyone knows"..

BTW, British Citizen thought the same that confiscation was only a treat only to wake up one day to Gun Confiscation.

SamG.
December 13, 2008, 07:22 PM
They pull this one out around the elections... :rolleyes:

twodawgs
December 13, 2008, 07:57 PM
Sam,

I just dropped by and noticed this thread. These usually burn for a while and slowly die out but I do have a question.

You said "they" usually drag this out.

Who are you referring to as "they"?

Is it me, or them or you or who?

Thanks

Defense Minister
December 13, 2008, 08:02 PM
I'm with those that say NOW is the time to act. Be proactive, not reactive. It's much more effective. I sent the following email to the ammunitionaccountability.org site, and I try to email my reps regularly.

I want to take a moment to remind you that brave men fought and died to bring YOU the Constitution of the United States and the freedoms and rights YOU enjoy that came with it. YOU will not continue to enjoy those freedoms and rights if you continue to chip away at the Constitution. The road to complete government rule begins very subtly, but in the end is COMPLETE RULE none-the-less. I strongly support the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and I urge you to do the same. If you want to save lives by reducing crime, teach your children morality in the home and encourage other parents to do that as well. That is the ONLY way that future generations will enjoy a reduced level of violent crime in our communities. Criminals don't obey the law. That is what makes them criminals. Law-abiding citizens do obey the law, and they are the only folks who will be adversely affected by this type of legislation. Please, think about it. Thanks. Matt

http://www.jerry-howell.com/Quotes.html

http://www.twinbuttebunch.org/index.php?fuseaction=articles.japanese

ccsniper
December 13, 2008, 11:51 PM
i already have. i already write them regularly. most my reps probably know me by name.

hso
December 14, 2008, 12:37 AM
The ammo serial numbering issue has been under discussion since the beginning of this yearnearly a year (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=335378&highlight=ammunition+encoding) with no fewer than half a dozen threads on the Ammunition Accountability Act. What is there new here that hasn't been discussed? What specific action is suggested beyond "contact your elected officials"?

TooTaxed
December 14, 2008, 12:41 PM
Don't assume those bills are dead! They may well be tabled and sitting on someone's desk awaiting resurrection and action by the newly-elected (anti-gun?) state legislatures.

Each one should be researched for status (the bill number and draft of each is on the Ammunition Accountability website, link provided in the first post). For resurectable bills, state pro-gun organizations must alert members to contact their representatives in state government.

********** has already adopted this...prior to the capability for employing it being developed!

Eagles6
December 14, 2008, 02:00 PM
Just so you know, PA doesn't have any gun bans. Fast Eddy Rendell, former mayor of Philly, now governor of PA had a law in place that invalidated PA carry permits within the city. It was overthrown a number of years ago.

chemist308
December 14, 2008, 02:48 PM
There are still over 10000 people that come to THR. So, if this does not get 30 responses of people willing to right one letter by this time tomorrow, I'll write to Paul Kanjorski (PA) and Chris Carney (PA) and ask them to SUPPORT both gun registration and ammunition registration. I'll also tell them that I want sensible gun control measures in place.

To prove it, I'll post a copy of what I write tomorrow by 10pm.

Byron Quick
December 14, 2008, 07:20 PM
Any members of state grassroots RKBA organizations with information about the status of the bills in the their states as well as efforts to defeat it?

A SC legislator has introduced a bill to authorize Vermont style concealed carry. Does anyone know where that's at?

dacavasi
January 10, 2009, 06:22 PM
200 million times 50 is 10 billion, not one trillion :) The language of virtually all the proposed legislation holds for $0.005 per round in the administration costs for our political heros to build and maintain the adminstrative infrastructure to track all this stuff. That estimate is low to begin with, IMHO, but it is entirely separate from the actual cost of implementation of such serialization on the manufacturer's end. The latter is anyone's guess but it will not be cheap. We all know who will pay for it in the end...

As you point out, the technical challenges associated with the mechanics of serialization are numerous. The effective enforcement of such draconian measures would surely be virtually impossible. In short, this is just another bunch of uninformed liberal b.s. and will hopefully die in committee just like it has already in most states who've considered it. It might have a shot in, say, CA or OR, but hopefully even those blue-bloods will recognize it for what it is...

Eightball
January 10, 2009, 06:46 PM
Wow, mathematics for the win.

kyarcher
January 10, 2009, 07:51 PM
I got this in an email so I don't know how accurate it is.

Subject: Fwd: AMMNUNITION ACCOUNTABILITIY ACT

Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 11:52 PM

Welcome to the USSR (United States Socialist Republic). I knew they
(Demigods) would figure a way to get our guns, or make them useless.
Rick

Ammunition Accountability Act
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns? Well,
it seems that his minions and allies in the anti-gun world have no
problem with taking your ammo!

The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including TN, Illinois and
Indiana ) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture, a
data base of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy
and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
unless the ammunition is coded.

Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1,
2011. (Including handloaded ammo.) They will also charge a .05 cent
tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least
$2.50 or more! If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to
take your gun!

Please give this the widest distribution possible and contact your Reps!

It's the ammo, not the guns....
I've said for a long time that they wouldn't go for your guns,
they'd
go for your ammo... guns have a Constitutional protection. Ammo does
not. A list of states where this legislation is pending is in the
final paragraph. Not in CO yet, they'll go where the pansies are
first.

Heads up to all of you who swore to defend the Constitution of the
United States against all enemies, foreign AND domestic. Let your
state Legislatures know that we do not want this bill passed, and
petition them to vote no on this bill. We should keep after them until
the bill is closed by bombarding them with e-mails, phone calls, and
letters.

Get to all your politicians to get to work and NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!!!
The 2008 Legislative session has begun, and the Ammunition
Accountability Act is being introduced across the country. Below is a
list of states where legislation has already been introduced:

Alabama, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana,
Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington.

More information can be found at:

http://www.usavsus.info/US-AmmoRegistr.htm



http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

greenr18
January 10, 2009, 09:11 PM
ugh...

w_houle
January 10, 2009, 09:37 PM
Can we get a facepalm emote?

colorado_handgunner
January 10, 2009, 09:39 PM
Yes, this is accurate, and very frightening. See the below link. :what::fire:

http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp

S&Wfan
January 10, 2009, 10:16 PM
http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/Technology/Coded%20Bullet2.jpg

. . . and their slogan is "Saving Lives, One Bullet At A Time.":confused:

hso
January 10, 2009, 10:38 PM
Guys, this is something like the 5th or 6th thread on this. I just merged two threads on it in Activism Discussion so since this is just an "FYI" thread instead of proposing any beneficial action I'll merge it with the other two.

GoodKat
January 13, 2009, 04:59 PM
This is ridiculous, if you planned on killing someone, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care about it being illegal to remove the markings.

hso
January 13, 2009, 05:05 PM
The vast majority of murders are not with semiauto handguns so the idea that you'd have casings laying around that you could trace if absurd.

This is a product and it's promoters are trying to create interest in it as a solution to a problem. The fault with that is there is no problem so they have to promote the thing.

moooose102
January 13, 2009, 05:47 PM
You know, this thing is so stupid, it is actually likely to be passed. Y'all had better write your reps!

TooTaxed
January 14, 2009, 01:25 AM
I recently debated with a local anti-gun group...was invited to a "discussion", found myself the one pro-gun guy against sixteen rabidly anti-gunners. They believe this ammunition bill is the best thing since Free Money...even if not feasible! They really don't care...:banghead:...just so long as it does away with people having guns or being able to fire them.

Write your Congress people...both federal and state!...as they may not pay attention to EMAILS. But do both...

AllAmerican
January 14, 2009, 07:46 AM
Whatever Maxim guy....

Everyone I know does know. See I belong to an org where we had this defeated last year as it never made it out of committee. I guess I shouldnt make a blanket statement since I guess "everyone" here may not be up to speed and are ignorant. Thats a shame really.

Just so you know, Im quite involved in politics and am even planning a run in my state so Id like you to not worry about how much I know or dont know about the data.

The fact is is that this has been defeated in every state so far. There is no use talking about it until it comes up again. Our energies should be focused on the prefiled bills that are there for this year.

If the ammo thing is on your states list then by all means it needs attention and needs to be defeated. It hasnt come up again in all the states yet.

Thanks for playing. You've been a wonderful contestant.

armoredman
January 14, 2009, 08:03 AM
Dead in AZ the first time, and has NOT been re-introduced in the new AZ legislature yet.

TooTaxed
January 14, 2009, 12:04 PM
ALL AMERICAN, you might clarify this for me. It is my understanding that ********** has bought into this...certainly their Attorney General...and New Jersey, last I heard, was strongly inclined to adopt it. So, or not so?

7.62X25mm
January 15, 2009, 01:49 AM
"Ahhhhhh jeez . . . I'm outa ammo."

"Hold on a sec. I got a box in the truck for ya. You can spring for the next pizza."

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