Ruger LCP vs Kel-Tec vs Baretta Tomcat?


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KentuckySteve
December 13, 2008, 08:29 PM
I am going to buy a small 380 to carry in the summer months. I have been looking at the Baretta Tomcat, Kel-Tec P3AT and (online) Ruger LCP. The owner on my gun shop says he like the Kel-Tec and the Baretta 2nd. He said the Luger is too new and on recall.

I have a Ruger 22/45, and I have had no problems what so ever. I Love to shoot it. Online, I have read several negative comments about the Baretta...jams alot, too heavy, too big for a 380, etc.

Thank You in advance for any suggestions you may have! Right now, I'm leaning toward the Ruger....if they start shipping again soon.

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Lone_Gunman
December 13, 2008, 08:34 PM
First, Ruger is now shipping post-recall LCP's.

The LCP and the Kel Tec are equivalent. The LCP is prettier.

The Tomcat is thicker, heavier, and I believe only chambered in 32 ACP unless a new version in 380 is available since I last looked at them.

Newton
December 13, 2008, 09:11 PM
My pre-recall LCP was perfect, now that I have it back from the factory it's still perfect but now shouldn't go bang if I drop it.

I was warned not to buy a Tomcat but I did anyway. I think it lasted for 13 rounds before the trigger bar broke.

Beretta should not be selling this gun.

ConstantineJ9
December 13, 2008, 09:17 PM
Ruger

paradox998
December 13, 2008, 09:30 PM
I had two new tomcats this year. Neither lasted more than 60 rounds before the frame cracked.

Ben86
December 14, 2008, 12:17 AM
If I bought a .380 I'd get the LCP without hesitation, I love Ruger products. And the fact that they did the past two recalls, while other companies continue to sell flawed designs, only makes me trust them more.

bensdad
December 14, 2008, 12:40 AM
I sent my LCP back for the recall last monday. the gun was back in my hands - with a spare mag, cute hat and letter of apology - on Friday. The gun has never had a failure. I'd buy another Ruger product in a heartbeat, and I can't recommend the LCP highly enough.

Companion Cube
December 14, 2008, 04:59 AM
Interesting. I wonder what I did wrong... I signed up for the recall online on 11/15 and haven't heard a word.

I sent an email 7 days ago. No response yet.


Here's a recent post of mine from a similar thread:

I probably will not buy a Ruger product again.

Firearms(and the times you rely on their proper function) just are not mistake-friendly. Ruger has now released TWO semiauto handguns that required a recall in a very short period of time. They shouldn't have two recalls in a decade, much less in a year!

In addition to releasing the unsafe firearms, new updated LCPs are showing up on store shelves before Ruger fixes the defective ones they've already sold. I signed up online almost a month ago and have heard nothing(other than the confirmation email, of course). I also emailed them about 5 days ago.

They already have my money, so what do they care that I have an unsafe gun? They've got money to make by making and selling more LCPs!

My P3AT had a problem, too. One phone call to Kel Tec, though, and all was good within a week.

Mr. Bojangles
December 14, 2008, 06:13 AM
I absolutely love my kel-tec p3at in .380. The recoil is manageable and it has functioned flawlessly. If you do get the p3at get the second generation model which has a small button-head screw on the rear of the ejector. Kel-tec also manufactures a small clip that attaches to the side of the gun and makes it very easy to clip on you pants. It sounds cheesy but it works well.

jon_in_wv
December 14, 2008, 07:33 AM
The Keltec and LCP get he nod from me. I've fired the Keltec and it was very accurate but recoil was snappy. The latest gen P3ATs have a good reputation. My LCP has and extra ounce of heft that tames recoil a bit and it is also a good shooter. The sight on the LCP are even smaller than the KT however. There are trade offs to both but I would put the on pretty even footing. The Beretta is a 32, its heavier, thicker, and has a prro rep for reliability. I would have to make it a very distant third.

76shuvlinoff
December 14, 2008, 07:48 AM
Going to a gunshow this morning and looking for an lcp but I'm not going to be holding my breath.

... one of these days

Geezer Glide
December 14, 2008, 08:19 AM
I'd go with the .380 over a .32.

My Kel-Tec has never been recalled.

Lone_Gunman
December 14, 2008, 09:55 AM
The Kel tec has never been recalled, but the design is the same as the Ruger. So if the Ruger really has a problem so does the Keltec. I speculate that the reason for no Keltec recall is because it would be too costly for a small company like Keltec to carry out a recall of the magnitude required, and would bankrupt them.

PX15
December 14, 2008, 10:05 AM
JMOfartO:

Ruger has a great reputation for Customer Service/Warranty Repair and standing behind their firearms..

KelTec has a great reputation for Customer Service/Warranty Repair and standing behind their firearms..

Beretta has a great reputation for having a crappy Customer Service/Warranty Repair Dept. who will make your life miserable and cause your blood pressure to rise and just trying to deal with them will increase your chances of a stoke or heart attack..

Well, that was my experience with a POS Tomcat..

If I HAD to make a choice between the three listed, I'd go with the LCP simply because I think Ruger has refined the P3AT clone, and even though they've had some teething issues they have been quick to have recalls and eventually you'll get a good pistol for your money. (And if you have to send your LCP back you might even wind up with a free mag for your trouble.)

Just personal opinion, no offense intended.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

KentuckySteve
December 14, 2008, 10:33 AM
Everyone, THANK YOU for taking the time to answer my dilemma! It looks like the Ruger is the choice. I think I will check tomorrow to see when it will be available.

batmann
December 14, 2008, 03:59 PM
IF you can find one, I like the KT in .380. The Ruger is slightly more refined, but my KT has been reliable and that is all I can ask for.

SwampWolf
December 14, 2008, 05:57 PM
The Keltec and LCP get he nod from me. I've fired the Keltec and it was very accurate but recoil was snappy. The latest gen P3ATs have a good reputation. My LCP has and extra ounce of heft that tames recoil a bit and it is also a good shooter.

For most people, that extra ounce of weight isn't going to make much difference in terms of recoil, "perceived" or otherwise. But the slide hold-open device is a real boon in the Ruger's favor in terms of convenience and clearing a jam under fire.

AdamSean
December 14, 2008, 08:06 PM
I have owned a Kel-Tec P-3AT since they started making them. I love it! I wanted a Ruger LCP, but am thankful i didn't find one before the recall. I still may get the Ruger after I see some hard fact tests done on drop testing and prolonged performance. Until then, there is nothing wrong with my excellent Kel-Tec. Also, it shoots groups like this at 7 yards.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/zg8/HPIM0345.jpg

MachIVshooter
December 14, 2008, 09:00 PM
The Kel tec has never been recalled, but the design is the same as the Ruger. So if the Ruger really has a problem so does the Keltec. I speculate that the reason for no Keltec recall is because it would be too costly for a small company like Keltec to carry out a recall of the magnitude required, and would bankrupt them.

The P3's do not discharge when dropped. Ruger simply botched the pirated design.

Old Navy
December 14, 2008, 09:07 PM
In a recent article in one of the gun mags, a test was done between several concealed carry 380's. One was a LCP, i think a kel-tec was one along with a Bersa thunder. The Bersa won hands down.

I bought a thunder 380 for my wife and I like it so much I've just about confiscated it from her. I paid $279 for it and is is super accurate with a great trigger.

I've now bought a Bersa thunder ultra compact in 9mm for $369 and it is just as impressive. They come with a lifetime warranty and both have really crisp triggers. They are Highly recommended.

Lone_Gunman
December 14, 2008, 09:09 PM
I think comparing the Bersa to a Ruger or Keltec was a pretty dumb ass comparison. Let me guess... you saw thing in Gun Tests???

jon_in_wv
December 15, 2008, 06:16 PM
Swampwolf have you fired both? The LCP does in fact have less recoil and the weight does make a difference. If you were comparing a 34oz 45acp versus a 35oz 45acp perhaps not but in a 14-15oz 380acp it does make a difference.
The slide lock however does not. How is it going to make clearing a jam under fire easier?? I would challenge anyone to even USE the tiny little slide lock hurriedly under normal conditions much less under fire. The only purpose of it is to make disassembly easier not for emergency clearing drills.

Fire a P3AT and LCP back to back and you'll see there is a difference in recoil for sure. But the LCPs smaller sights may offset the speed with which you can shoot it compared to the P3 so the advantage may not materialize on paper. If your point shooting the advantage goes to the LCP. At least thats how I perceive it.

Old Navy
December 15, 2008, 09:40 PM
Lone gunman,

And your point is???? Who died and left you in charge of literary criticism?

My "dumb assed" opinion IS mine and I'm damn sure my membership entitles me to express it, just as your does.

I don't recall which mag the review was in but it makes sense to me. I've shot all three and the Bersa wins hands down in my book. Your opinion may be, and probably is, different. That, sir, is a good thing.

Rodentman
December 15, 2008, 11:22 PM
I had a Kel Tec and sold it. I have a Ruger LCP and the recall is painless. I didn't get a return box right away after my email to them, so I called, had a box and UPS Red label within a week. I expect to have the gun back this week.

I didn't have any trouble with it before the recall and I expect none after.

I prefer a little more heft in my main carry gun, such as a 638, but the little LCP rides well in a pocket.

F1
December 16, 2008, 12:26 AM
"I sent my LCP back for the recall last monday. the gun was back in my hands - with a spare mag, cute hat and letter of apology - on Friday. The gun has never had a failure. I'd buy another Ruger product in a heartbeat, and I can't recommend the LCP highly enough."
__________________


Well, I sent my LCP back TWO MONTHS AGO because it was jamming and I just got it back today. They sent a form saying they're giving me a free mag for my trouble, but I sent them two and just got back two.

SwampWolf
December 16, 2008, 03:49 PM
Swampwolf have you fired both? The LCP does in fact have less recoil and the weight does make a difference. If you were comparing a 34oz 45acp versus a 35oz 45acp perhaps not but in a 14-15oz 380acp it does make a difference.
The slide lock however does not. How is it going to make clearing a jam under fire easier?? I would challenge anyone to even USE the tiny little slide lock hurriedly under normal conditions much less under fire. The only purpose of it is to make disassembly easier not for emergency clearing drills.

Fire a P3AT and LCP back to back and you'll see there is a difference in recoil for sure. But the LCPs smaller sights may offset the speed with which you can shoot it compared to the P3 so the advantage may not materialize on paper. If your point shooting the advantage goes to the LCP. At least thats how I perceive it.

Yes, though I own neither, I have fired both: my next door neighbor owns the LCP and another good friend who lives across town owns the KelTec. I've probably put fifty or so rounds through the KelTec and maybe twice that many through the Ruger. And, on one occasion, shot them "back to back". None of the three of us noticed any difference in recoil between the two pistols nor, for that matter, do any of us feel that excessive recoil is a problem with either pistol. I don't doubt that you can tell the difference one ounce makes-we couldn't.

As for whether or not the slide release might make a difference in clearing a jam under fire, nobody said it would be easy. But if you don't think that it is easier to clear one with the slide held back by the slide lock as opposed to trying to hold the slide (under the pressure of the recoil spring) back with one hand while you're attempting to clear the weapon with the other hand, try setting up a double-feed situation in either pistol and then tell me it's not harder to clear the jam with one hand as opposed to being able to use both hands. Is it difficult to clear a malfunction with these little pistols? Yes. But in real life even the best pistol can jam at the worst possible time and that little slide release just might buy you a couple of extra seconds.

jon_in_wv
December 16, 2008, 06:07 PM
Fair enough!!! I still think you would be very hard pressed to clear a jam with the slide locked back on the LCP. You would probably be better off shaking any loose round out and if there is a round in the chamber, racking the slide a few time to allow the extractor to pull it out. I really doubt you would be able to lock the slide back and extract a round with your finger or some object small enough to get in that small ejection port to pry the round out. At that point if would probably be more effective to run your butt off!!
The thing I noticed with the KT is that when I shot it the trigger guard would slap my trigger finger under recoil. I've experienced no such thing with the LCP. Recoil is very subjective but I think the LCP gives ME less felt recoil. That may not be the case for you so I wouldn't try to say you are wrong.
At least your man enough to disagree without getting snippy. There are a lot of people on these boards lately who don't seem to understand that DISCUSSION doesn't mean we all have to agree. We need more guys like you here.

1time
December 16, 2008, 06:43 PM
Kel-tec's haven't had any recalls because they won't make good on POS firearms. Not that all of theirs are POS, but mine was.
I'm glad Kel-tec has treated some of you well but I bought a P40 that never ran right. They would not/will not fix it. They stopped making the gun and will not even look at it.

Another downside to the Ruger is they don't have an entire website dedicated to trying to make them run without malfunctions but I will forgive them for that.

My LCP had a few FTF, FTE during the first 100 founds. Since then I have several hundred rounds though it without a hicup.

btefft
December 17, 2008, 12:43 AM
+1 - Ruger LCP. Not a pleasure to shoot, but it gets the job down. I've also owned the KT 3AT and don't a great deal of difference between the two. I do, however, appreciate the slide release on the LCP. I wish they'd offer a mode to that would make the slide stay back after the last round was fired.

Hack

SwampWolf
December 17, 2008, 04:09 PM
I wish they'd offer a mode to that would make the slide stay back after the last round was fired.

Amen to that!

And thanks jon in wv for the kind words. You're right,of course- if we all agreed about everything there'd be no need to discuss anything.

jercdevil
December 22, 2008, 03:30 PM
Do's anyone have the Rugers in stock? I have one on order since June 2008:(

stalkingbear
December 23, 2008, 02:14 PM
Here's another vote for the Ruger Lcp. After having fired both the Kel-tec and the Ruger, I chose the Ruger and it's proven 100% reliable so far for me.

ivydivfour
February 17, 2010, 07:42 PM
I read numerous posts about Ruger recalls and I had a Kel Tec 32 and a 3AT didn't like either. My Inox Tomcat has never failed and I had no reason to contact Beretta service Dept. It works.

Enachos
February 17, 2010, 08:09 PM
lol... this is a 2 year old thread buddy hahaha

LightningMan
February 17, 2010, 08:38 PM
I would like to add that I own both the LCP & P3AT and they have both been flawless in function. I can't really say if one has more recoil than the other, but the Kel-Tec had a nasty sting to it, caused by the rough edge inside the trigger guard. Most likely left over from the polyomer molds seam. I easily puffed that out, which cured it. The Kel-tec has slightly better sights than the LCP, but nothing a little white modeling paint or nail polish can't fix. IMO either one is a good choice but after buying a SIG P238, I believe this is great little .380, fantastic sights (nite-sights), 1911 style single-action, Aluminum frame, and it shoots with softer felt recoil than either LCP or KT. It does weigh a bit more at 15.2 oz. (6-7 oz. more than KT or LCP) but not much bigger in size, because I can still carry it in a pocket holster. This is now my favorite little .380 to carry. LM

Girodin
February 17, 2010, 10:41 PM
I still think you would be very hard pressed to clear a jam with the slide locked back on the LCP. You would probably be better off shaking any loose round out and if there is a round in the chamber, racking the slide a few time to allow the extractor to pull it out. I really doubt you would be able to lock the slide back and extract a round with your finger or some object small enough to get in that small ejection port to pry the round out. At that point if would probably be more effective to run your butt off!!

Why theorize? Just set up some jams and try each. A double feed (the type of jam that one would lock the slide back to clear) is much easier to clear with the slide locked back. Set up some double feeds (safely) and try it.

I can just about guarantee that if you are not practicing clearing jams you'll be hard pressed to do it when you need to.

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