Need Pointers from You Mosin M 44 Gurus


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geo57
December 13, 2008, 11:31 PM
I just aquired a Russian Mosin Nagant M 44 carbine, 1944 date. I was told it was from a crate of several, never issued, but as with all milsurps, I take this with a grain of salt. Might be, might not, might be refinished/ rearsonaled. For what I want it for and for what I gave for it ( $ 100 total with tax, I really don't care. I will appreciate some advice though from you M44 owners. I'm guessing it has some cosmoline inside, so :

1. Besides bolt removal for bbl cleanup, do you recomend any further disassembly for initial cleanup ? Should the action be removed from the stock to get to the trigger inards & mag guts ?
2. Should the bolt itself be taken apart to degrease ? I've heard it both ways. FWIW, In time it may see somewhat cold deer hunting.
3. Will it likely shoot as accurately if the bayonet is taken off ? I thought I read once they don't shoot as well if the bayonet is extended, but wasn't sure if removed.
4. Though a vender said his 78 stamped Polish 7.62x54R 147 gr. light ball was non corrosive, I'm going to treat it as corrosive & clean soon after use. To your knowledge, does this 78 Polish ball exist in non corrosive ?
5. What soft point bullet weight and maker do you like best in them for deer hunting ? Silver Bear ? S & B ? Privi ? Other ?
Any and all thoughts, opinions and suggestions will be noted and appreciated. Thanks .

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jws527
December 13, 2008, 11:53 PM
1. Besides bolt removal for bbl cleanup, do you recomend any further disassembly for initial cleanup ? Should the action be removed from the stock to get to the trigger inards & mag guts ?
Cosmoline is an excellent preservative but I'm not sure that it would make for an effective lubricant. Aside from the bore and receiver (cleaning the chamber thoroughly is a must if you'd like to avoid "sticky bolt syndrome"), I do recommend cleaning out the magazine (you don't want cosmoline collecting on the surface of your cartridges, because some of it will inevitably end up in the chamber and contribute to sticky bolt). A thorough cleaning of the trigger is less essential.

2. Should the bolt itself be taken apart to degrease ? I've heard it both ways. FWIW, In time it may see somewhat cold deer hunting.In my opinion, yes.

3. Will it likely shoot as accurately if the bayonet is taken off ? I thought I read once they don't shoot as well if the bayonet is extended, but wasn't sure if removed.The M44 was apparently sighted in with the bayonet extended and fixed. It's a pretty mean looking rifle with the bayonet out anyhow, so why not?

I've tried shooting my M44 with the bayonet removed, and it seemed about as accurate (or inaccurate) as it usually is with it extended. I didn't try grouping it with and without the bayonet, since the groups aren't worth fretting over anyhow. Note: removing it does reduce mass and improve balance slightly. Also, you cannot remove the bayonet lug - only the blade and spring.

4. Though a vender said his 78 stamped Polish 7.62x54R 147 gr. light ball was non corrosive, I'm going to treat it as corrosive & clean soon after use. To your knowledge, does this 78 Polish ball exist in non corrosive ?Better safe than sorry - I have difficulty imagining that 70's vintage Combloc ammo would use non-corrosive primers. The corrosive cleaning process is easy anyhow: simply pour hot, clean fresh water over all of the metal parts (the high temperature will encourage rapid evaporation), and then clean and oil the rifle as usual. It adds maybe 5 minutes to the entire cleaning process.

5. What soft point bullet weight and maker do you like best in them for deer hunting ? Silver Bear ? S & B ? Privi ? Other ?
Any and all thoughts, opinions and suggestions will be noted and appreciated. Thanks . Can't help you here - my M44 is just a fun blasting/plinking type rifle. It isn't accurate enough for serious paper shooting or hunting so I've never tried putting anything but cheap surplus FMJ through it.

I hope my assistance could be of some use to you. :)

MRIman
December 14, 2008, 09:43 AM
Lots of great info here:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/index.asp

Take her apart(everything),then you know what you have
and that it is clean

gaweidert
December 14, 2008, 12:21 PM
Take ic completely apart to clean it. Cosmolene is great stuff but a pain to remove. As for cleaning I just use Hoppe's No. 9 Nitro Powder Solvent on mine. Get the type that says is works with corrosive primer residue and you are good to go. Essentially all milsurp ammo is corrosive and for good reason. The primer is much more stable and it tolerates long periods of storage better. When I am done cleaning I spray a little EEZOX down the barrel and wipe down the bolt face with it. I always check my rifles a over the next few days to see if any corrosion has started. I have never seen any, but it pays to check it out.

Gord
December 14, 2008, 12:56 PM
Check the stock and receiver for a stamped box with a diagonal line through it; that's an arsenal refurbishment mark.

Pretty much all surplus 54R is corrosive, so clean accordingly.

As far as disassembly, Mosins are ridiculously easy to strip down; may as well learn to do it now, and give it a good cleaning to boot. I lightly oil my bolt, but there shouldn't be much (if any) difference; run it dry if you want to.

Claymore1500
December 14, 2008, 12:59 PM
First, I would suggest a detail strip and clean, just to be sure.

Second, the rifles were initially sighted with the bayonet extended, the bayo. disrupts (if you will) the air cone around the bullet in such a way as to effectively steer the bullet, so removal of the bayo. will have the same effect as shooting with it folded, the front sight can be adjusted to compensate for it (somewhat)

Thirdly, I believe that winchester makes hunting ammo in 7.62x54r, It is more expensive than milsurp. but you get what you pay for.

Last but not least, check out, www.7.62x54r.net There you can find info on your rifle, like no place else I can think of.

dispatch55126
December 14, 2008, 01:34 PM
Seller & Bellot makes a soft point in 7.62x54R. I took my first deer with this ammo.

xmenm05
December 30, 2008, 06:00 PM
Hi, I have my 44 since 21st of Dec (so very few experience, only about 50 rounds) however I was able to shoot before buy and it shoots the same with bay folded or removed. The accuracy of the rifle is better than I am (nice surprise, but I am a terrible marksman ...)
Shooting corrosive ammo - then hot water (with soap or some ammonia, corrosive ammo means acid in barrel, so you need to neutralize, russian soldiers used hot water with soap) and check next day just to be sure.

xmenm05
December 30, 2008, 06:53 PM
Just made some foto of ammo ... use my nick as password
http://www.mensikovi.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=7921&g2_GALLERYSID=a2e997f93645f0262dcf65d20153ebc2

panrobercik
December 30, 2008, 11:39 PM
a big yes for the bolt cleaning. Make sure to not to leave too much oil in the bolt . Mine was spitting oil into my shooting glasses. As others said the chamber is a must. Use shotgun brass brush on a drill , dipped in some acetone. Careful, not to spill acetone on stock finish, better yet remove the stock before you do it.
If your rifle was refurbished it will have a lined out square stamped on the stock. If you remove the bayonet, you may have to adjust the front sight.

NCsmitty
December 31, 2008, 12:32 AM
The cleaning previously mentioned is essential to reduce the chance of problems in the field. Remove the bayonet to reduce the weight unless you plan to stick a few pigs with it.
As far as surplus ammo is concerned, there is no such thing as "mildly corrosive". Treat all surplus ammo as corrosive.

Prvi-Partizan makes great 180gr SP for hunting. It is identical to Wolf Gold SP. Made in the same factory and uses the same bullets. I recommend them.

The 7.62x54R is a potent round, more than equal to the 308-30'06 class of cartridges. You'll note that with the first round out of your M44. :)

NCsmitty

grimjaw
December 31, 2008, 01:13 AM
Every Mosin I ever de-cosmolined was stripped down to individual parts, except maybe the extractor. It's exceedingly simple with a Mosin; there's no reason not to detail strip it.

It might group well with the bayonet removed, but not where you want it to (e.g. four inches left of the farthest adjustment of your sights). Can't hurt to try, though.

jm

mdThanatos
December 31, 2008, 02:46 AM
for mine I could not get they bayo removed without taking the whole assembly off which means removal of the front sight. I would take the stock off and make sure you get all the cosmo off. What I also recommend is if you have the means, heating the stock up to remove the cosmo that could be in it, I know mine had a ton in it but since I live in the desert, stick it in a bag and leave it in the sun works.

Duke of Doubt
December 31, 2008, 02:58 AM
Take her down to the last spring, pin and screw (other than the staked bayonet screw). Bolt most definitely included. Disassembly and reassembly are easy, and you don't want molten cosmoline goop flying into your face every time you get her hot and bothered.

DO NOT remove that bayonet; barrel harmonics affect sighting, and you would have to recalibrate the sights without the bayonet. It's not as simple as using the M38 figures, BTW. Fix that bayonet before shooting, Gogi.

I have achieved exceptional accuracy out to 200 yards with my M44 (1946 Izhevsk, in the bag), and I am not an exceptional shot. She's capable of more than most of us; don't cheat her.

rangerruck
December 31, 2008, 03:22 AM
take apart, soak all, clean all, including bolt. Clean with a spinning brush, the chamber as well. Yes remove the bayo, it very much adversely effects the accuracy, not only closed, but especially when open. All, ALL, MILSURP X54 AMMO IS CORROSIVE!!!! find ammo that is 170 to 185 grainers; these are most likely to be the most accurate, even the 200 and 205 grainers. The 200 grainers will drop about an extra 8 to 12 inches at 100 yds, from the 150's though.

eventer289
December 31, 2008, 03:22 AM
I took mine completely apart (save for the bolt) when I first bought mine. I've never experienced sticky bolt syndrome as a result. However, even though I thought I cleaned thoroughly, I still had cosmoline seeping out after the first few times of shooting it. I shoot corrosive surplus ammo. I just carry a bottle of windex with me to the range and hose the inside of the barrel down after shooting. This neutralizes the acids so I can clean it later without harm.

Ignition Override
December 31, 2008, 03:35 AM
Xmenm05:
We went to Prague around '98 and really liked the city and people.
Last Sept. to Budapest. You don't show e-mail.

xmenm05
December 31, 2008, 03:45 AM
Hmm ... strange, mine is shooting the same with bayonet folded and with bay removed. I expected a major change, however the holes in the paper are in the same place ... . And I agree with Duke of Doubt, as far as I am not a good shooter, the M44 seems to be accurate. More than I am ...

rangerruck
December 31, 2008, 11:03 AM
you got lucky, usually there is a huge diff with bayo folded, or when it is extended.

xmenm05
January 1, 2009, 07:30 PM
I know, I just hope there is no other bug instead ... :) so far so good ... is here thread about sending stuf abroad (to europe) I found a mag in US and need it here in CZ ... :(

geo57
January 1, 2009, 11:31 PM
On sighting mine in, shots with bayonet folded were 5-6 " left of center and with it extended, were still 3-4 " left of center. These were from 25 yards . Since I really wanted the bayonet removed anyway , I took it off, drifted the front sight about 1/32 " to the left, and subsequent shots were dead on @ 25 and 40 yards, both from a rest and offhand from a sitting position . All this was with WOLF 148 GR. fmj . Wish I could find more of it, or a similar load @ this price in this bullet weight in a non corrosive product. I'm aware of the commercial soft point, brass cased choices @ $16 per 20 .

Matt Dillon
January 2, 2009, 11:37 AM
I think that the Czech silver tip ammo is 147 grains, if I'm not mistaken. Bought my last batch for $29.00 for 880 rounds

foghornl
January 2, 2009, 01:26 PM
I haven't hunted with my M-44, since Ohio is a shotgun/slug combo only state ofr deer...That being said, I do notice about a 3"-4" difference in windage @100Yds with bayo folded vs. extended.

I have used some Barnaul Arsenal 203-Gr soft-point ammo...seems to be decently good ammo, consistant and accurate.

xmenm05
January 6, 2009, 02:42 AM
Maybe another question - which rifle scope do you use / recommend for mosin? I am not seeking for historical originality.

The recoil is corresponding to the cartrige, so I need something simple and easy, fixed or zoom mag around 4 - 9 but the most important - reliable, something what survive on this rifle.
On the other hand, I do not want to spend 2000 bucks on a rifle for 100 ... :)

My current favorite is: http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=589
What is your opinion?

notorious
January 6, 2009, 02:49 AM
Definitely take it all the way apart for cleaning and especially get the butt plate off because you will find a nasty crud filled area that resists any other attempt to clean.

I stripped the bolt too down to all the components and soaked it in Mineral Spirits and got out a lot of cosmo caked on the firing pin spring.

Then I had to refinish the stock. Just part and parcel of the milsurp experience.

As for scopes, I like the scout mount concept and you can find some good ones on Ebay which has the mount that replaces the rear sight blade and has a weaver base with rings and a NcStar 2-7x32 LER scope. That's the easiest and non-permanent way to install a scope.

As for the folding spike, it looks cool so why not?

kd7nqb
January 6, 2009, 05:25 AM
Here is one thing I have noticed. I have 2 M44's one groups better with the bayonet out and the other likes it folded in. Its odd but I kid you not.

geo57
January 6, 2009, 12:51 PM
Initially, I tried my M44 with the bayonet folded, then extended . Not shooting to POA with either setting, and me wanting it off anyway for several reasons, I removed it, drifted the front sight slightly, and got good results in further shooting. IMO, a much handier, shooter friendly package with it removed.

notorious
January 7, 2009, 01:39 AM
Did you refinish the barrel after you took off the bayonet? The contour looks funny.

I prefer to leave the bayonet on so I can charge Bambi after the shot so I can save bullets and not make any more noise to draw the attention of zombies in the area.

Ignition Override
January 7, 2009, 02:15 AM
Geo 57:
Other than here, my MN gurus are at 'Gunandgame', 'MN' forum.
Many of those guys have fallen ill with Mosinitis and will never find a cure for this exotic disease.

Some might be here using different nicknames.;)

There should be MN forums at 'SKSboards' and 'Gunboards'.

notorious
January 7, 2009, 02:18 AM
Surplusrifles.com is the best source of info for mosin-itis. I learned so much in 1 week reading EVERY single article on that sight, including articles on guns I don't even own.

expvideo
January 7, 2009, 03:38 AM
1. Besides bolt removal for bbl cleanup, do you recomend any further disassembly for initial cleanup ? Should the action be removed from the stock to get to the trigger inards & mag guts ?
Yes. Remove and deep clean every single part of the rifle. This is something that you have to do with milsurp, and of course it is a pain, but that is why they are cheap. Make sure that you don't have any cosmoline in the trigger area so that it is a cleaner pull. Make sure that there is no cosmoline in the magazine spring area, so that it feeds correctly. Make sure that there is no cosmoline in the handguard area of the stock, so that the barrel is free-floated. This will improve accuracy. You should be able to wrap a dollar bill around the barrel and run it up and down without binding. you can lightly sand the area if it does bind.

2. Should the bolt itself be taken apart to degrease ? I've heard it both ways. FWIW, In time it may see somewhat cold deer hunting.
Yes. Every part of the rifle should be completely cleaned out of cosmoline. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. This is worth doing right. Remember to oil liberally. I soaked all of the metal parts in Marvel Mystery Oil.


3. Will it likely shoot as accurately if the bayonet is taken off ? I thought I read once they don't shoot as well if the bayonet is extended, but wasn't sure if removed.
The rifle is more accurate with the bayonet extended. There are two reasons. First, the rifle was sighted in with the bayonet extended. Second, when the bayonet is closed, it puts pressure on the handguards and makes the barrel no longer free floating.

4. Though a vender said his 78 stamped Polish 7.62x54R 147 gr. light ball was non corrosive, I'm going to treat it as corrosive & clean soon after use. To your knowledge, does this 78 Polish ball exist in non corrosive ?
As a rule, treat all surplus ammo as if it were corrosive.

5. What soft point bullet weight and maker do you like best in them for deer hunting ? Silver Bear ? S & B ? Privi ? Other ?
Any and all thoughts, opinions and suggestions will be noted and appreciated. Thanks .
I'm sorry, I don't hunt. I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't.

notorious
January 7, 2009, 04:11 AM
Use the Hornady SP loads for deer if you want, they have a good record.

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