[arizonaguide]

I am thinking of buying a CCW weapon, that can also be used as a nightime gun by my wife. I know similar questions have been asked, but I need to ask you all in my own way, if that's okay?

Thinking out loud:
1. would like small profile for CCW.
2. wife has very small hands.
3. KAHR micro's fit well, but would like higher cap. mags
4. Hoping for something better(9mm+) than .380, but .380 is Minimum.
5. small hands don't seem to go with HiCap magazine option.
6 maybe Ruger LCP, but any advice on something small/dependable in 9mm+better.
Small, Small hands.

Thanks folks.

[Agent-J]

Give the Sig P239 a look. Or if you mean like really small, check out the Glock 26.

http://lundestudio.com/wallpaper/p239-9-left-full-hi.jpg

[arizonaguide]

Looked at both, and the overall size is okay, but the grip circumference is too big for her small hands.
Even the Walther PPK is kinda big for her hands. Something like a KAHR micro, or an LCP.
Just curious if there was anything else I hadn't thought of.


I guess what's really strange is that the Taurus Mellenium series all fits her hand, and WITH their HiCap mag's...so I know it can be done.
I just heard some negatives about the Millenium series, and was leaning elsewhere. I guess it's the LCP?




(that IS a pretty SIG though.) :)

[basicblur]

Try some of the Taurus stuff-got a PT145 Millenium PRO, but I know they make 'em with smaller grips than the one I have.

[lives4huntin]

My wife has a Kimber Ultra Carry II 45 ACP. She has small hands, and has no problems shooting it. The only problem she has is lowering the hammer with one hand. It is best to use two hands anyway. I have a full size Kimber 1911 for shoulder and "clip-on" carry. It may be a little large for most, but works for me. There are several revolver options also. Lady Smith in 357? Double action is my preference for protection. The best bedside protection in my mind is a tactial shotgun. It may be hard to fill both of your needs with just one gun.

[Agent-J]

the springfield EMP 9mm is pretty damn tiny.

[innerpiece]

check out a Kahr CW9 or a taurus PT111SSP MilPro.

the taurus has a 12 rd capacity, and is still nice and thin. Ive got 10k thru mine with NO problems at all..

the Kahr I got primarily for my better half, she loves it, it does punch a tiny bit, but is easy to handle, and dang accurate, decent price too. only a 7rd clip, but we have 2 of'em... so no worries here..

I dont know much about them, but mabey look into Kel-Tec... Ive heard some good stuff about them guns..

most importantly, more than capacity etc.. make shure she can hit with it, only hits count...

ip.

[arizonaguide]

Does anyone know what the difference is between the Kahr CW series and the rest of the Kahrs...I notice the CW line is substantially cheaper.

[mgkdrgn]

Well, if the grip circumference is going to be a deal breaker, then you are going to have to pretty much stick to "single stack" mag weapons, which is going to cut your round capacity in half. 1/2 the rounds is better than no rounds at all!

Looked at both, and the overall size is okay, but the grip circumference is too big for her small hands.

[boomana]

Try the S&W M&P 9c. The small backstrap might work fine with her hands, and you could switch up, if you liked, to fit yours best. Also try the Walther PPS, Sig 239, Kahr PM9, and, if you can find one, the SA EMP. I've tried them all. The M&P ended up fitting my hand best of all guns, but I have what might be considered a medium-sized hand for a woman. The EMP I tried belonged to a woman who had really really small hands. It worked well for her.

[sagebrushjim]

Take a look at the Kel-Tec P11 or P9 ...

[Great Scot]

Have you looked at the Browning Hi Power? It has a great grip for small hands, it has the capacity you're looking for, and it's actually fairly compact for carrying concealed. It's particularly thin, which makes it ride comfortably in an IWB holster. I always thought the the Hi Power was a big gun, but I recently saw a picture of the Browning next to the sub-compact Glock 26, and the size difference wasn't that much. Good luck with your search.

[Deanimator]

If it doesn't HAVE to be a semi-auto, a 3" S&W Model 65.

I carry one IWB on a regular basis. It's both a great CCW and home defense firearm.

It's durable, accurate, and easy to shoot. You have incredible flexibility in ammunition, from 148gr. wadcutters that many women prefer, to 158gr. .357 +Ps.

[chris in va]

Keltec P11. Thin, small, 9mm and with the optional magazine holds 12+1. There's even a way to lighten the trigger pull.

Barring that, look at a J-frame.

[innerpiece]

arizonaguide, the CW series of the Kahr is basicaly the "economy" version of the "P" series of Kahr models.
I believe the CW models have a normal Button Rifled barrel, and the engravings are roll stamped... check out the Kahr website, all the info is there.

but I can tell ya, its a great pistol, accurate, reliable and verry concealable.

ip.

[arizonaguide]

Thanks Innerpiece. That's what I'm leaning toward. I was just wondering if the CW was poor metal, or something. It's almost half of what the other Kahr's are going for...and I'm gonna put some serious rounds thru it. I couldn't find a discussion of what makes it so much less in the specifications on the Kahr site...so was very curious.

GScot,
Have you looked at the Browning Hi Power? It has a great grip for small hands, it has the capacity you're looking for, and it's actually fairly compact for carrying concealed. It's particularly thin, which makes it ride comfortably in an IWB holster.
Funny you should mention that...:)
My "full size" carry gun is the Browning HiPower in .40, and I'm still thinking of getting a 9mm barrel for it, to share ammo with whatever I get for the wife. That's another reason I'm leaning toward the Kahr 9mm rather than the LCP in .380.
.380's NOT cheap from what I've seen...not to mention the power difference.
I could get the Kahr .40, but the wife might be better with practiceing with 9mm, and not .40.
The S&W Model 65, and the Kel-Tec's are valid options also.

Good stuff, folks. Thanks.

[The Lone Haranguer]

KAHR micro's fit well, but would like higher cap. mags

I would rather see her with a smaller-capacity gun that fits her hand, than a larger-capacity one that does not. The sheer number of rounds will make no difference if they miss. A Kahr K- or P-series holds eight rounds topped up. That should be enough for just about anything short of a protracted siege or something. ;) Still, I suggest trying out a Smith & Wesson M&P compact with the small size grip fitted. It holds 13 rounds topped up.

[mljdeckard]

You are correct in your thinking, that all people who know you and are close to you may need to use your guns. My friends and family have made a concerted effort to familiarize with all of our weapons.

Here's the thing. Even if your wife has small hands, you may be surprised by some of the weapons she can handle just fine. Remember that when the 1911 was first used by American soldiers, the average height of the American male was 5'4" -5'5". They had smaller hands than we do now. I carry a full-size 1911. (I still grumble about people who are convinced that they have to carry a compact gun.) Remember that the smaller the gun is, the less it will weigh, and the more recoil it will have. The shorter the gun is, it will have a smaller sight radius, and is more difficult to shoot accurately.

I would recommend, (And I know I may be in the minority here,) go to a rental range and shoot a variety of guns and calibers. Start with the biggest, and work your way DOWN. Remember there are modifications you can do to some guns for size, you can switch out the backstraps on some guns, including M&Ps and 1911s. I'm going to bet both of you will like something like a mid-size Glock, XD, or M&P. 9mm recoils less than .40, and has better capacity. If you'll be shooting it in the dark, I would recommend night sights.

[innerpiece]

thats good advice mljdeckard. working yer way down in size would be a good way of finding a nice inbetween for size and capacity.

arizonaguide, the CW series by no means is poor quality in any way. I wouldnt have gotten it if it was, specially for my better half! personally, I like how the slide is taperd in comparison to the P series, makes for less potential snage on draws and easier to holster aswell.
Im pretty shure it would be great for what yer after. but it shure dosent hurt to look around a bit!

and like I said in my first post, only hits count... so practice practice practice for the wife!

take care, ip.

[rfwobbly]

I carry a CZ P-01 and women seem to like the ergonomics of it just fine. It comes in 9mm and 40S&W. It's sized between a "compact" and a full size CZ 75, sort of a "3/4 size". In 9mm, it comes with 14 round mags but will accept the 16 round mags from the larger CZs. The 9mm version is rated for +P loads, so there's plenty of power there.

For around $500 it comes with 2 mags, night sights, case and are well finished.

[arizonaguide]

Excellent advise folks, and you are ALL right where I'm at on this.

We tried the XDc and the MPc (cuz I wanted either, BAD!) :)
But, alas...still to big for her hands, even with the smaller backstraps.

We like the 1911 compacts (with flat mainspring housing and short trigger) but sort of out of our (less than $500) pricerange since I want to get this before the inaugeration!!!

We'll check out the CZ P-01. Is it MUCH smaller than the CZ75? (which is roughly the same as my HiPower, and is a good gun.)
And still have to try out the Kel-Tec and revolvers in her hands.

So far it's looking like the CW9 being the best compromise, and if it's just springs/rods that are "cheaper" then they can be replaced later with the good stuff. She'll be shooting (3000rds!) mostly low pressure target stuff anyway. Then just carry Corbons.

I guess what ticks me off is that the Mellenium Pro DOES fit her hand with a double stack magazine, so I know it's possible. But the overall size of the mellenium is right on the border of larger than we wanted for complete CCW (prefer "pocket size") carry.
(lot's of shorts/t-shirt wear in Arizona.) :)

Left the old collection in Alaska (in good hands) and just rebuilding here:
http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo114/arizonaguide/priceless.jpg
Now, just need CCW/Wife gun..... (and PS: the 30-06 now has a 3-9X50 illuminated scope!)

[oneounceload]

sounds to me that maybe you should consider getting TWO guns - one for you for ccw, and one for her for nightstand/ccw

It was mentioned about putting a lot of rounds through it - that would be very painful in a pocket, or mousegun and would require trips to the smith for repairs, which would then leave you without.

IMO, any gun meant for SD/CCW/HD should have a twin, (or at least a good first cousin like glock 19 and 26), so that familiarity is there and you're not without while one might need to be fixed.....YMMV

[Isher]

Arizona -

The REAL reason I own two P01's.

Got the first one, and am out in the back of the house running

A few clips. My significant other comes round the corner

And requests to shoot. No prob.

She immediately likes the gun, though she has not done any shooting for years.

So that pistol became HER pistol, and the house pistol,

And I went and bought another one,

Which is my pistol.

BTW, she has small hands and is light-boned. Didn't have a problem

With either the grip or the recoil.

Her only complaint was that the gun's report

Was "goddam loud."

So there you go.

Isher



124 grain Federals

[arizonaguide]

Good points Oneounce!
Probably was adding above picture when you posted.
Thank you , though.
Good thoughts...limited timeframe/$$$ with upcoming inaugeration.
:)

[Ky Larry]

If Glocks work for you, try the Glock 33 in .357 S.I.G.My neice loves hers.

[brett30030]

A ccw for you and night time gun for your wife? It seems like one of you is always doing without. That is like having a car with only one seat belt.

[Treo]

whatever I get for the wife.

Nope.
Wifey needs to select her own gun. Take wifey to the nearest gunshop let her play, let her decide which gun fits her best and is most comfortable to her and let that be her night table gun.
A few suggestions for her perusal
CZ-82 (12+1 9X18)
CZ 2075 (14+1 9mm 10+1 .40)
CZ 83 (12+1 ? .380)
CZ 75 compact (not sure on the capacity available in 9mm & .40)

[arizonaguide]

She doesn't wan't to carry CCW, but will almost always be with me (as she drives very little).
But I want her to at least train with my CCW, and it will be in her nightstand (and take to saferoom) gun in event of emergency. So, it MUST fit her hand.
I have the 12ga (and Browning) for night at home, but will CCW the final smaller rig during the day.
(Also once we get the CCW gun, the Browning will probably go in the safe)

She will have access to the 12ga at home during the day/night...while I'm out with CCW gun.

She(we) will be training with the CCWgun and the Shotgun extensively...and she probably WILL eventually want one of her own! (unless Obama succeeds on banning ALL semi auto weapons as he's stated is his goal in his first year).

So, I have to get one + ammo,ammo,ammo before inaugeration! (and got about $500 to do it between now and then).
Maybe another plus for a wheelgun? But he'll just add those to the list as well, I'm sure.

Beans and Bullets, Boys, Beans and Bullets. Before January 21!!!

[oneounceload]

Arizona -

Excellent that you BOTH want to be able to shoot something, especially in the SHTF scenario - BUT - what works best for you might NOT be the same.....you might want a J frame for CCW, while she might like a Seecamp of XD or whatever for nightstand use

The point of my last point is this - whatever the BOTH of you decide to get....make sure each of you can shoot the other, and while the personal favorite may be different, make sure each of you can at least operate the other's personal choice - even if it's not your own

case in point - my wife likes a 1943 Beretta 380, while I prefer a K-frame 357, and there are a few Glocks........but do we both practice with both - she is more proficient with hers, as I am with mine - but could we both use the other person's gun??...yep....might not be the best, but it will work

keep that in mind

[louie19]

OK I'm not really sure why she can't just have the shotgun nearby since she will be training with it. And 12 gauge seems large for a small lady.

Definitely get two, if not right away - over time. That way also if one breaks down, you can still CCW and use for home defense. You can also think of it as having two cars, which most people have nowadays. That way you can "drive" with one and she can "drive" with the other, except we're talking about handguns.

So you should probably try to get something that is like your Browning, but smaller since you're used to how it operates. It'd probably be useful to get something that also operates the same way for your wife, but sized for her hand. Some makers have different grip inserts now too that will help with this. So basically you need to take her to the gun shop / range. :)

[goon]

My experience is that the smaller a gun gets, the less pleasant and controllable it is.
It's sometimes hard to find a balance between a concealable gun and a shootable gun.

Guns that I did think do this well are the SIG P-225 (P6) or the Ruger SP-101. The S&W M&P Compacts are pretty gentle shooting 9mm's as well. Also, I shot a .380 Makarov once that was a really pleasant gun.
I would certainly not consider something like a Kel-Tec P3AT - that stands out as one of the most unpleasant guns I've ever fired. P-32 was OK though.
In particular though, the .357 revolver like a S&W 60 or SP-101 could really shine here. There is so much versatility there just by switching ammo. You could remove your 125 grain JHP teeth-rattlers at the end of the day and load the gun with whatever the wife prefers with no effort and no decrease in reliability. It's possible that you might even prefer a lighter load with less muzzle blast and noise for indoor use at night. They should also work pretty well for CCW.

I'd say the best thing you can do is heavily involve your wife in the decision and just plain flat-out don't consider anything that she won't be able to use.

I'd also stuff the 12 gauge with some reduced recoil "tactical" loads. Seems to me that the 500 I used to have wasn't at all unpleasant with Federal tactical #4 Buck so maybe your wife could handle that.

[svxapeal]

I am a woman with small hands. I just bought a High Standard Crusader compact 1911 in .45acp. The fit is great. You might want to have her try it out. Mine has thinner grips than my husbands full size and is MUCH easier for me to handle. It holds 7 in the mag and one in the chamber...but it also "fits" the full size 1911 mags.
This is a picture of mine side by side with my husbands http://www.turbopinto.com/images/guns/1911s.jpg
As for recoil difference between the compact and the full size...I don't really notice that big of a difference between them.

Caryn

[jad0110]

I would recommend, (And I know I may be in the minority here,) go to a rental range and shoot a variety of guns and calibers.

I agree. Both of you need to "test drive" different guns and come to an agreement on the best option.

My wife also has very tiny, child-like hands. Of my 5 handguns, her preferred one is my 5" M1911 in 45 ACP. It isn't ideal, but it works for her. I would have preferred that she pick out her own gun, but she just doesn't like guns that much. Actually, despite being pro-RKBA, she hates guns. :banghead:

Anyway, the 1911 design seems to work well for a lot of folks. If you both like the compact 1911s but didn't like the price, keep in mind that Rock Island 1911s, though basic no frills guns, are usually very reliable right out of the box. New ones are under $500, and I've seen used examples recently for as little as $350. It is a full sized, government model 1911 (5" barrel). But I carry a gub'ment model frequently and don't find it to be an issue (given a good holster and belt).

Do try out some revolvers. One huge advantage of revolvers is the enormous selection of grips available, making a perfect fit more likely. For a combination house/CCW gun, I would think something like a 2.5-4" barrel all-steel S&W K Frame or Ruger Six series in 38 or 357 might be a good bet.

Since this is the only gun you can afford for the time being, resist the urge to talk her into the gun you want. It may take some time, but there is bound to be something out there that will work for both of you.

[svxapeal]

Since this is the only gun you can afford for the time being, resist the urge to talk her into the gun you want. It may take some time, but there is bound to be something out there that will work for both of you.
Much agreed. It took me nearly year to find the right revolver..and two years to find the right semi.
A range that rents is also a great inexpensive way to test run any thing she might be interested in...and a great way (with out commitment) to exclude anything from the search.

Caryn

[arizonaguide]

All good advice folks, and thanks.

It will be mainly a CCW for me, but NUMBER ONE priority is that it MUST primarily fit her small small hand, and be able to be EXCELLENT for HER!

I will then work (CCW) with whatever SHE feels best with. I have smaller hands also, so if it works for her, it'll be okay for me (to CCW). If it was more for me I'd already have a M&Pc or a XDc, but those are too big for her.

The shotgun (reduced loads) will be her main gun if I'm not home. If I am home I'll grab the 12ga, then she'll grab the CCW and the Cell Phone from the nightstand, and head to the Safe Room, and get on the phone. If she "accidently" grabs the 12ga in an emergency, instead of the CCW, well that's okay too. I'll work with either, and we'll both be practicing with both! :)

The current ideas are a Kahr CW9 (fit her and me well at the gunshop), or a ruger LCP (also fit her excellent!) and we still have to check out revolvers. I'm happy with a revolver also, if we go that route. Good ammo flexability, and just need to see if a smaller 2-1/2 to 3" will be okay for her hand. Cost wise (and Obama wise) the revolver may be the best bang for the buck...althougn I'm sure he'll include double-action revolvers in a semi-auto ban. So that may be a moot issue, anyway.

But, it might be nice to stick with 9mm, and get a conversion barrel for the HiPower ($180) and standardize on 9mm ammo. Kahr and HiPower(.40 converted to 9mm) should both handle 9mm +p (or Corbon) in an emergency, with no issues.

Last point: I have to stick with a down-sweep thumb safety, or NO thumb safety to stay compatible with the HiPower. Can't have down-sweep on one and up-sweep on the other as that's begging for a problem (under pressure) when adrenaline if flowing. Has to be second nature operation. That's why a nice small 1911 would be great, and we'll look into that HiStandard also this next weekend...I think it's under $500.

Leaning toward the Kahr CW9, but we have to check revolvers and the HiStandard 1911c
also. LCP is the "BEST" fit for her (it fits her like the full size HiPower fits me), that's how small her hands are. But I'd like to stick with a 9mm or better, and the Kahr is "next best" with her....everything else just seems too big for her tiny tiny hands...and she's not comfortable.

[ArchAngelCD]

1. Would like small profile for CCW.
2. Wife has very small hands.
3. KAHR micro's fit well, but would like higher cap. mags
4. Hoping for something better(9mm+) than .380, but .380 is Minimum.
5. Small hands don't seem to go with HiCap magazine option.
6. Maybe Ruger LCP, but any advice on something small /dependable in 9mm+better.
Small, Small hands.
Take a look at the Kel-Tec PF-9 (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm). The PF-9 answers all of your concerns. It's a very small and flat pistol. It holds 7+1 rounds of 9mm but in a single stack Mag so the grip is small to address your wife's small hands. A friend just got one, I fired it and it's more accurate than I expected. The PF-9 might be just what you're looking for.

[goon]

I'd suggest shooting the small Kahr's and especially the little Ruger before buying them.
The P9 I had wasn't exactly painful to shoot but it wasn't pleasant either. People who shot it noted that the recoil was a little snappy. It would probably put off an inexperienced shooter. I actually sold it so I could buy a gun that would be more fun to practice with (thus making me a better marksman).
On the little Ruger LCP, never shot one but I have shot the P3AT that it was apparently copied from. I WOULD NOT suggest a gun that size and weight for a new shooter.
Having a gun fit your hand is great but if it's unpleasant to shoot, you're not going to shoot it.
So you'd best make sure you and the wife enjoy shooting a gun before you spend your limited resources on one.

OTOH, maybe I'm just getting to be a pansy in my old age...

[sm]

The lady needs to choose her own.

I strongly suggest a dedicated .38spl revolver as over the decades this has been the most chosen by ladies for home use.

By far in my experience,
The 3" K frame Model 10 and Model 64 and Colt Detective Special are the two most favored, shot by ladies to verify and chosen to use at home.
Ruger SP101 in dedicated .38spl is next up.


.38spl round is a low pressure round which I recommend for indoors, and the .44 spl is too, another recommended and another a number of ladies choose to use for a home gun a .44 spl.

Revolvers do not go out of battery when against a door or human torso when the door is being answered.
In bed, there is no slide to get hung up on pillows, linens and the like.

Revolvers such as snub nose, 3" and 4" are more difficult to be taken away in grappling.
I recommend fixed sights, more smooth, less to hang up, and all one needs.


.38spl allows for quality dry fire practice with snap caps and putting a dime atop barrel near front sight and running a cylinder Double Action Only and not having that dime fall off.

Speer Plastic Training Bullets are primer fired, and re usable. Indoors in say a barn, warehouse, garage , etc, lots of quality practice when the weather is bad.

Fixed sighted .38spl are set up to shoot standard pressure 158 gr loads POA/POI.
As well as 148 gr lead wad cutters.

The gun is not ammo dependent, and it will shoot a variety of loadings from mild target loads to beefier.

Now at sometime in life one gets hurt, has surgery, and they need a gun they can load , unload, and make safe.
i.e Carpal Tunnel surgery, and it is hard to load semi auto mags.
Cylinders are easier to load/unload, and make safe with one one hand.

S&Ws allow for more stock choices to tweak gun fit to hands.

Tornadoes took from a lot of my guns earlier this year.
My pet Model 64 , 3" RB, Ruger SP101 in dedicated .38spl are gone. I will never have guns like these again, and I miss them. I do have a Colt Detective Special .
A few years ago a Pet Ruger Six was taken due to fire...another great gun.

Too many ladies over too many years have used the Model 64, SP101 and a Colt DS at a range and made their choice.
This is one reason I had them.

At a private range we had lots of these, with different stocks, and again the ladies shot the guns, walked around with these in holsters, and made choices based on actually shooting, and with different stocks, and different loadings.

A lady may get the money up for a BHP, or 1911 Commander size ( we don't do smaller than Commander size) later on, still they never get rid of that revolver.
Never.
It has proven to be that good for too many ladies and I go back decades with this.

[C-grunt]

My wife likes my SP-101 and she feels the 1911 is the best semi fit for her.

[sm]

These guns fit most hands:

BHP
1911
S&W 3913

K frame
Colt Detective Special (D frame)
Ruger SP101

This was all figured out long before many guns now come to be.

In a hurry, toss anyone, especially a lady a 1911, Colt DS and K frame,and one of the three will fit her the best.

The K frame allows for tweaking fun fit better as there are more stock offerings for it.

That said, and I grew up with S&W handguns, the more ladies handle a Detective Special, the more like it and want one.
It totes like a J frame and feels like a K frame in hand.

1. Never hand a lady a 28 gauge and especially let her shoot it.
2. Never hand your wife, daughter, or grand daughter, a Colt Detective Special.

You will end up buying a 28 gauge and losing your DS to that wife/daughter/ granddaughter.

If this ain't etched in granite, it should be. I did my part and have too many guys that can attest to this.
[Easy to spot these guys, they have long faces, whine and have hands pulling out pockets showing empty]

*I help ladies real well*

[mattk]

We have two HiPowers in the bedroom. One on either side of the bed in a Wilderness Safepacker. My wife doesn't want a large carry gun so I found her a Mustang Pocketlite. I carry a Colt Government .380 or a 1911.
This keeps the manual of arms the same for all our defensive guns.

If money is the issue, try buying used or look at the Bersa thunder.

[Orange_Magnum]

Firestar M43 9mm with a serial number above 2,000,000. No +p.

[Bill B.]

I let my wife pick her own and she chose a S&W 36. She was not comfortable with autos and was not really able to rack the slide properly in most. She's happy with "Her" revolver. :)

[Ken Rainey]

Yep, I gotta agree with sm, as a matter of fact, just today my 30 year old daughter who is all of 4ft, 11 inches tall and about 95 lbs just took a four inch (pencil barrel) S&W model 10 .38 as her home defense handgun. She's never really been a gun person, but has been shooting a few times and is not afraid of guns. She's only ever kept a single action .22 revolver on hand but has come to realize that something with a little more authority and easier to use under pressure may be needed....so, after a quick class on it's operation and a few dry fires, she loaded up with standard 158 grain LSWC ammo and headed home. We'll hit the range as soon as weather permits but she liked the revolver was able to dry fire it well in double action and it even has the stock grips on it's square butt frame!

As someone said earlier, when considering a semi auto, she'll need to be able to operate the slide, etc. I've seen many women who like the smaller semi auto's for hand fit, ease of concealment, etc. but when it come to operating it, it was a different story and they quickly learned the benefit of a revolver or larger, easier to operate semi auto....for an easy to use semi, most women seem to like the Glock model 19, even some who initially don't like the way it feels in hand quickly change their mind after actually firing it...my wife was one of those...she's always been a revolver woman but when I finally got her to actually fire the G19 she quickly switched to it for her preferred carry pistol and she's only about 5ft 3 with smaller hands too. Comfort during actual use wins out!

Good luck with your quest...

[innerpiece]

sm, you ever tried a Kahr? try it.

arizonaguide, when/if you get the CW9, get the cheap $12 Hogue slip on grips. if the grip itsself is a bit too thin for ya, throw that grip on and youll feel a major dif.

thats kinda how we did it.. Im 5'11, shes 5'2 hand size difference go without saying.

go handle one. n let us know!

ip.

[CZF]

Glock 26, the classic chick gun. Fits great for small hands.
Heck, even The Closer carries one in her purse..

They can always graduate to a CZ down the road:)

[arizonaguide]

Thanks Folks! Lots of good stuff.
(still leaning toward the KAHR, but plan on doing some last minute hand's on .38spl/etc this weekend..just to make sure it's what SHE likes!) With the Kahr we could eventually share ammo with my HiPower (HP=.40, but with 9mm conversion barrel $180 later)).

We could get the CW40, and share ammo now, but I was thinking that's probably too "snappy" for her.
Although I guess we could train her with low pressure .40 rounds. Hmmmmmmm. (thinking out loud).
Maybe CW40 with light rounds for training, and CORBON's for Carry. I kinda like that.
I could buy a lot of super-low-pressure .40's for training...for the cost of that $180 conversion barrel for the HiPower.
Sure has a lot more "punch" than the 38spl, or even the 9mm. I'll have to check the numbers between .40corbons and 9mm+p's. Dang, just when I think I got it all figured out...my mind gets turned around on the variables again! I like the sharing ammo thing, though. With just different loads for her/me. (and training/carry).
:)

[sm]

sm, you ever tried a Kahr? try it.

Err...no I have not.
I had a couple left for me to mess with if I wanted and my experience is with sticking one unloaded in my back pocket, or inside waistband and checking something out for a new LEO that said it was approved for her to use.

I was busy with some ladies in private with NAA mini revolvers in .22 lr , with
1 1/8" barrels with the factory lanyard installed.

I was sharing how to break of the trunks of their vehicles, and having to use that gun.
Or if down and had lost the primary gun , and hands could not access anything else , but the hands were near chest, neck and face how to use one.

-
Glocks hate me.
This is not a bash on my part, just the fact is, everyone has some brand name that does not like them be it a Car Mfg, Household Appliance, Clothing, etc.

Yes, the grip angle is not what I am used to, then again I am old enough to remember when there was no Glock , Kahr, and other companies.

A Sheriff Deputy was shooting his issued weapon and asked if I wanted to, it broke.
It was running fine, until I shot it, and he to use his other one just like it for work that night.

Gunsmith buddy got in 3 brand new Glocks, and he asked me open them so he could do the paper work.
Sights fell off one, and the other two had other problems.

I was not allowed to assist students with Glocks. I mean a darn 26 is running fine for a lady, and other gals she let shoot it, and I walk up and her 26 goes "pffft!"

It was sort of a running joke, until one day we were doing serious lessons in a shoot house.
A NO Weapon set up and the deal being two guards are shot and my deal is to survive.
I cannot enter this shoot house with even a knife, NO Weapons at all.

The Glocks had worked for others, but when I got them off dead guards, they would not.

The Pucker Factor really kicked in one day. I had been in a Fed Courthouse, and of course had no Weapons.
I exit, and was given a Glock to use until we got back to my vehicle and guns.
The gun had worked, I watched it being shot, this guy always shot a gun with mags after taking one apart.
Later that evening, out back that gun would not work.
I had carried a gun that would not work for hours through bad parts of town.

I do not do well with front wheel drive Chrysler products either.

I have seen guns just not do well with folks . Just like I said some brand of appliances or clothing do not.

Hence try before you buy to know beforehand.

-J Frames.

I am not a proponent of J frames being the first gun, especially to learn on.While it fits smaller hands, it takes more to learn the correct basic fundamentals.

In the old days the .22 lr S&W snub nose was an excellent gun for those that carried Snub Nosed J frames as issued guns, like Detectives.

I wish S&W would bring that gun back , without a lock.

That said, kids want to shoot and the J frame fits their hands. Ditto for ladies with small hands.

If that is all they have, maybe a gun left to them, then we bend the rules to fit the person.

Speer Plastic Bullets, are primer fired and reusable. Kids can shoot this gun, as can the ladies with petite hands.
It is fun, still serious lessons on shooting a snub nose J frame.

Wax Bullets are another great teaching, training tool , that affords quality practice.

Revolvers are not ammo dependent, and this J frame can be loaded up with really mild reloads to get correct basic fundamentals down.

Keep in mind back in the day good used police trade ins, allowed a lot of ladies (anyone) to get a quality gun for less monies.

Cops get a break on price with Glocks, and other brands. J.Q.Public does not.

Keep in mind I was dealing with single ladies, single moms, kids, elderly, and physically limited.
Some were victims of sexual assault, rape, beaten, battered, abused...
Others were victims of other crimes.

They tried before they bought, and money was a concern. They need to keep a car running, or medicine for a sick kid, or even Co-Pay for a Doctor's visit during cold, flu season.


I and mine focused on Software, not Hardware. We had all sorts of guns, with stocks to assist in gun fit. Holsters were available for folks to try.

These folks cannot afford to buy something that does fit them, and have a drawer full of holsters that will not work for them.

Holsters tried, and then one determined to work, then go find on in used holster bin.

Ladies never said "they don't make stuff to fit girls!" Heck they don't make holsters to fit all guys either.

Shoe Repair folks would undo and redo a holster to fit a lady, or gent.
So would the folks that worked leather.

Shoe repair and those that work leather know things, and the student and them worked together.

i.e. Contoured Belts.
Not just for ladies, also for some men body types.

I am in my early 50s and I recall as a kid Shoe Repair, or someone that worked leather contouring a belt, or making one contoured.

There is nothing wrong with new stuff.
Do keep in mind a lot of what is called "new" , is instead those things re-discovered.

How old is the 1911, BHP, Colt DS, Model 10,...?

[Ken Rainey]

Well, arizonaguide, I don't mean to burst your bubble but there ain't no low pressure .40 rounds to be bought, unless it's a reload...and...a conversion barrel ain't always reliable enough to be used for defensive purposes...sigh...:uhoh:

I appreciate the desire for compatable ammo use but then again, it ain't really gonna be of a "tactical" help unless your pistols could use the same magazines....

The Kahr is a nice pistol, well, the K9s I had were....but, the problem that presented itself when my (former) wife and I were both carrying one was that she had difficulty with the slide....she could manage it fairly well as far as chambering a round and she fired it very well, but, when it came time to disassemble for cleaning, she could not do it....she was introduced to a Glock 19 and all was well, even though it was a larger pistol and a larger purse was needed when she took it with her...she could operate and fire it very well and could disassemble it herself....and thus, I too carried a Glock when we were together to be compatable....although, she could easily operate and fire a revolver, she was more accurate with the Glock and eventually, sometimes she would carry the smaller Glock 26 but the 19 was "her gun".

For compatability, picking up a 9mm HiPower might work out well for y'all too...that way she could get accustomed to it's operation and then at least the manual of arms would be the same for both of your carry guns...and if you got a conversion barrel for your pistol later on, then the economy of both using 9mm practice ammo could be enjoyed....I know, decisions, decisions...

Of course, a good ol' .38 special is always a good choice too...just takes a little more trigger time to get good with but snap caps and dry firing go a long way toward achieving that goal in a short time....

Enjoy the search! :D

[arizonaguide]

SM, I got a great chuckle out of your Glock incompatability. I have some similar products. I cannot wear a watch, because I kill the battery almost immediatly.

Ken, I am kinda bummed about no low pressure .40's. I was almost sure I was onto something there for a minute.
:)

[sm]

arizonaguide,

You understand. *smile*

What is funny, is I bought some inexpensive .22 and 25ACP Lorcins, Ravens and the like for teaching tools.

My intent was, many ladies get these from a parent, big brother, uncle, or the gun shop guy says "little lady needs a little gun".
(which I hate btw)

Now we had all sorts of guns for students to try as I mentioned. These inexpensive guns were to share how this was NOT the best gun.

While small, light and a lady would carry one, these were not reliable, and it was hard to hit what aimed at, due to short sight radius and dinky sights.

I'll be darned if these guns not only ran, they hit what aimed at.

Here I was trying to share with not only ladies, also guys to not get a gal one, and these guns run.
Even the "shiny one with pink stocks".

They eventually went 'kaput' except for a couple or three, and finally they did.
It became a mission for me to get these darn things to quit. *lol*

Oh I got razzed about this, and it got to be funny.
"Don't throw him (me) a Glock if matters get serious, just toss him the shiny ladies gun with the pink or imitation pearl stocks".

One the gals at this private range got me a set of clip on earrings in imitation pearl and coral to "match my guns".

Long hair in ponytail, long , thick mustache, Ray Ban Aviators and this will get a single mom to really look at you with a shiny gun with those stocks.

I could also get folks to miss on the firing line, by just walking up.
Gals would get tickled, safe gun, leave on table and just lose it.

My lady partner got cute, and wore a fake mustache and beard and had a 1911 in her waistband one time.
"Babe, how come everyone is looking at us, and cannot shoot worth a flip?"
She asked...

Nobody said you cannot have fun with all this assisting folks...*grin*

Oh, seriously though, these were great teaching tools, even after they tore up. We made them inoperable, smoothed them up, and used them in lessons with folks.
Training Guns.

[arizonaguide]

SM, you've got me laughing my a** off again!

Where do you teach, and is it close to Phoenix? If not, do you recommend anyone here?

I'm looking at some more serious pistol training for work...(probably with a CW-40)
:)

BTW everyone, here's the outline of the differences between the CW, and the rest of the Kahrs.
NO BIG metal differences to worry about. And I might actually prefer the standard rifling.
http://kahr.com/dtlcompP_cw4043.html

[Riptide]

Hi folks,

Allow me to chime in for my first post, I think...

My wife and I just went thru this a few months ago, as she wanted to keep a gun in the house if I'm on night shift. Well, there's no shortage of pistols in my safe for her to choose from, but a very experienced buddy of mine asked a great question:

Could she clear a FTE?

Well, she probably could at the range (she's not an avid shooter). But in a hi-stress situation, I don't think she could. And I worried too much about her limp-wristing a gun, causing a FTE. (I have tried limp-wristing many of my guns. Most still won't FTE, but some will...).

So, my HK 45c went back into the safe, and we bought a pair of Ruger SP101's in .327 Federal, with Crimson Trace grips on them.

The wife loves them. Well, that's a bit of a stretch. But, she can handle them. And I have confidence in them. The .327 chambering is not too hot for her, and the training in the lower power .32 loads makes practice easy on her, with her bad elbow.

Very happy with our choices.

I will state that we don't CCW these Rugers. She carries a Kel-Tec 380, and I alternate between a Kel-Tec PF-9 (right now, anyway), and my HK P7M8.