Nighttime incident, Mossberg 500 made it more comfortable


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nsf003
September 22, 2003, 10:56 PM
A few nights ago, my mom came into my room and roused me from a deep sleep. This was like zero dark thirty. What did she want? A dog was in our pool. On top of the cover, growling and barking. My mom and dad went out to try and coax the thing off the cover but they were having difficulty. I walked out, and saw this big brown dog that was growling really mean, scared me. So i turn around, go back in the house, get the shotgun out of the safe, chamber a round of #3 buck, and go back out. My mom and dad have the dog at the steps now, they are trying to pull the cover with the dog on it, hoping he would get the hint. I stood there, shivering, hoping to God that the dog would just walk away. My mom saw my shotgun and told me that I would be in trouble if I shot the dog and I should just shoot into the air. Riiiiight. I told her I would but made up my mind all my shots were going to be COM.

Suprisingly, the dog just lumbered away into the night, never to be seen again. We went inside, and I put the gun away.

Today, I asked my mom if she would have punished me for shooting the dog if it attacked. She told me no she wouldn't and didn't know why she told me she would be mad if i shot it.

Gotta love shotguns for nighttime excursions.

nsf003

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Mark Tyson
September 22, 2003, 11:07 PM
If you live in a residential area it can be a crime to discharge a firearm, except obvisously in self defense(hopefully). If in the country, it could antagonize the dog's owner and may still be unwise. Unless the dog was threatening people or property, the better thing to do would be to wait until it left or call animal control if such a service is available where you live.

A shotgun seems like a good choice for this incident, with low light levels and close ranges.

Black92LX
September 22, 2003, 11:56 PM
i had a dog that hated to come inside (honestly) we would leave the door open for hours but it would always hang outside. so one night i awoke to some of the awfulest sounds ever. Me dog (Brawny) Vs Racoon. So i flipped on the lights and it ran off. next night same thing. then the third night i would have no more of it. so i loaded up my daisy eagle with a ponited pellet and pumped it and got that little coon in the crosshairs of my scope. and wham. that thing never came back. i turned around to see my very anger mother. she really mad at me but i would rather have shot the coon then had to shoot my dog if it came down with rabies cuz of the crazy coon.

ysr_racer
September 23, 2003, 12:13 AM
This was like zero dark thirty...

You live at home with your mom and dad and use terms like "zero dark thirty"? You were going to shoot a dog for being in your back yard?

I just want to be sure I've got the facts correct.

Geech
September 23, 2003, 12:49 AM
You were going to shoot a dog for being in your back yard?

He was willing to, not going to, shoot an unfamiliar and potentially dangerous animal that was growling at his family members. Getting facts straight is one thing, but spinning them into a half-truth is another altogether.

JohnKSa
September 23, 2003, 01:32 AM
He lives at home because he's 16.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=124930

Quartus
September 23, 2003, 01:52 AM
Sounds perfetly reasonable to me. Strange large dog, growling. Standing by prepared to defend his parents if the dog attacked. Dog didn't attack, young man didn't shoot.


Sounds like a good job, nsf003.



I had a friend who was attacked by a dog. The paramedics said he came within a millimeter of dying - that's how close one of the gashes was to his jugular vein. He was alone at the time.


BTW, my friend is big, strong, and very capable.


Dog are serious business.

ysr_racer
September 23, 2003, 01:58 AM
Lighten up Francis, you guys are scaring me. Cover the perp, book 'em Dano, 10-4 over and out.

Geez, Walter Mity, get a life.

On the other hand, that's what I want, a 16 year old kid making life and death decisions...

Here's another possible solution, hello animal control, there's a dog in my parents back yard...

goon
September 23, 2003, 02:15 AM
I had a similar incident a few months back.
I was talking with my parents on the back porch when I saw something stick its head out of the open door of their shed.
My dad quickly retrieved his little Rossi pump action .22 and handed it to me (he can't see iron sights very well).
I moved closer to see what it was before I just shot it, and it was the biggest...



Porcupine I had ever seen in my life. It was rearing and raging....
Just kidding. It just waddled out and started for the woods. My dad was intent on shooting it. He has 2 dogs that are strong but no too bright and he felt that if it was around, they would try to get some of it. I am sure the porcupine would have been glad to oblige them.:D

Anyhow, I volunteered to shoot it. I knew full well that if my dad went, he would kill it. I also knew that I had no intention of harming it, I just wanted to chase it away. I chased it about 25 yards into the woods, but then he got clever.
He took refuge in the wheel well of an old car. I prodded him out with the gun barrel, but he took exception to being manhandled.

What happened next is sort of a blur...
I remember the porcupine charging out of the wheel well and heading straight for me. I took about three steps backwards, easily gaining a lead on the menacing beast. I pointed the gun at him, but I couldn't shoot him.
He was just a stupid animal who didn't know any better. And if someone stuck a gun in my ribs, I might try to kick his a$$ too.
I just stepped aside as he ran (they really don't run) past me. He took cover in the same shed that he had been chased from not three minutes earlier. I didn't really know what to do. I just left him alone and he left when he felt like it. Haven't seen him since.

Just goes to show you, you should always respect the wildlife.:D

son of a gun
September 23, 2003, 02:28 AM
The way people train those dam Rotweilers and pitbulls now days, you never know what might happen. Better not assume Scooby Doos in the pool and wants a Scooby snack, a late night swim is irrational behavior even for dog, it might of had rabies.

Gabe
September 23, 2003, 03:10 AM
If it's making noises I'll chuck a shoe at it from the window. Otherwise I tend to ignore strange animals in my yard. Animals sometimes get confused about territory in the dark, they'll figure it out by morning.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:49 AM
I'd really have to side with YSR on this one. Calling animal control would have been ALOT better choice, if not your "only reasonable" choice. Sounds like you were all to quick to run and grab your gun. You have to remember, dog's don't know any better. ANY animal, if felt cornered, which I'm sure this dog felt with 3 unfamiliar people around it, will be "prevoked" to attack. The human (NSF aka tactical teen) needs to be the one with the clear mind to know better. Otherwise he was potentially making a decision that could have resulted with either the dog or parents laying in a pool of blood. Use your head, before you reach for that gun, otherwise you, and your surrounding community, would be better off without you having one.

There are different tools for different jobs. We shouldn't be so quick to resort to our guns when a much smarter alternate, like simply picking up a phone IN THIS SITUATION, would have been a much smarter choice. I'm not saying, if you hear a burglar enter your home, or if you are attacked that you should run for the phone FIRST, NO, in that situation grab the gun FIRST on the way to the phone if feasible.

Resorting to shoot, especially in this "controled" situation, should have been the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. I mean, you weren't "forced" into action. The dog did not create an immediate threat to you or your family. It was your decision to confront it at the pool. YOU placed your self in that situation.

I am all for guns and self protection and all, but man, you would have made a serious life altering decision should that situation had gotten ugly. Potentially shooting one of your parents on accident, especially with a shotgun shell. I highly doubt that you've trained for this situation.

Don't mean to come down on you kid. Been there, done that. As you get older that itchy trigger finger subsides with many more moons over your head, and you begin using your "big" muscle first.

see ya...

swingset
September 23, 2003, 04:38 AM
Not wanting to sound condescending, but I agree it's probably a situation where the shotgun added more problems than it solved.

Glad it all worked out. Sounds like the dog was pretty much stuck in one place, so next time assess the situation before you act, don't be afraid to use the phone and call someone who gets paid to handle this kind of thing. It might save you or the poor dog.

goon
September 23, 2003, 04:49 AM
As you get older that itchy trigger finger subsides with many more moons over your head, and you begin using your "big" muscle first.

Last time I tried using the "big muscle", someone pulled their shotgun on me.:D :D

seeker_two
September 23, 2003, 07:22 AM
Sounds like you did OK, but I'd add something to your "arsenal"...

You need a low-powered BB gun (i.e. Daisy Red Ryder) for dogs & other varmints like this. Quiet enough not to disturb the neighbors, and a BB to the backside of the dog will provide him with enough "motivation" to head to another yard w/o injuring it.

I keep one beside my back door for the occasional dog that crosses my yard & tries to do its business in the flowerbeds. Most of the neighborhood dogs know to head the other way when they see me outside...:evil:

If the dog is threatening you or your loved ones, use the shotgun instead. That's self-defense.

BluesBear
September 23, 2003, 07:30 AM
NSF003 you did good.

As to the rest of the armchair quarterbacks...

Why didn't anyone ask why Mom & Dad didn't call animal control?
After all Mom was the one who woke NSF up with a problem.

Itchy trigger finger? No way. He didn't shoot, not even into the air when prompted. SHooting into the air is reckless. PERIOD!

He was HOPING the dog would just walk away (which it finally did). But, he was willing to do whatever it took to keep anyone from getting hurt.

What if that poor lost confused little puppydog had decided to attack the big bad man who was trying to save it by pulling it, while on the pool cover, closer to the steps so it could escape?

I wonder if I am the only one around here who remembers the "Devil Dog" hunts down in Georgia back in the 1970s? Anyone here have any idea how much damage a "big brown dog" can do and how fast it can do it?

As for me, if I was in a similar situation I would probably do the same thing.
And if I was the one pulling the cover... I'd welcome NSF and Brother Mossberg standing by.





Just in case.

Jim March
September 23, 2003, 07:37 AM
nsf003 did just fine here.

Let's take another look, shall we?

1) At age 16, he's not going to have a whole lot of ability to convince his parents that driving the beastie in question out is a bad idea versus walled retreat and a call to animal control. The "chain of command" is generally pretty well set in most families :). So we can debate which is the best approach all day long...

2) He knew that the doggy had growled at him in a threatening manner.

3) It therefore follows that since the parental units are going to screw around with an unfriendly beast, having a shotgun out and ready JUST IN CASE isn't a bad idea.

Now, there's other things we don't even know about:

* Were there other family-owned critters that would be in danger if they all went inside?

* Was the pool cover gonna blow out from the weight of the dang dog, at some expense? No to mention a dead drowned dog in the pool because with most of the cover still on, it'd basically become a giant one-way doggy trap? Or you manage to pop enough of the pool cover out, and among the various adjectives for the dog such as "large", "pissed off", etc. we can now add "wet" and "scared"?

(In other words, we don't even know if the parents were correct in wanting that dog gone ASAP.)

In any case, at age 16 he didn't have a whole lot of control over the actions of the adults present.

Fact: he held fire because it wasn't necessary.

Conclusion: I see nothing particularly wrong with his reasoning abilities or ability to use judicious force. I've met any number of 16 year olds who I'd trust to cover a dog with a shotgun just in case, and I see plenty of evidence from his posts that he's one such.

Finally, if he was indeed the only one present with a clear head, it wouldn't be the first time a kid has shown more brains that the adults present. I can recall an incident when I was approx. 14 and was several miles out to sea in too small a boat with my dad and kid brother when the wind came up and dad panicked. Us "dumb kids" kept our heads because we'd literally grown up around small boats, so what to do was 2nd nature.

Kendra Pacelli
September 23, 2003, 08:11 AM
"When Animals Attack.....Not when there is a Moss availabe"!


Good Job nsf!

nsf003
September 23, 2003, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the kind words.

The dog was on the pool cover, struggling, and was probably going to drown. He was all tangled up, barking his head off. He was ruining the cover. My parents wanted him gone. I don't know why they didn't call animal control, but I live in a small town and probably don't have a 24 hour a day unit. Not sure about it though. I'll talk with them and get back to you.

and among the various adjectives for the dog such as "large", "pissed off", etc. we can now add "wet" and "scared"?

I think that is a correct addition.

nsf003

StuporDave
September 23, 2003, 09:06 AM
ysr_racer wrote

On the other hand, that's what I want, a 16 year old kid making life and death decisions...

Depends on the kid. If it were my son at sixteen (he's 18 now), in that situation, I would have no problem with him making the shoot/don't shoot decision. He's a responsible kid, knows his way around firearms, and is a good shot. I may not have put him in that situation, I'd probably make a different decision, but I'd trust him in that situation. I don't know him, but nsf003 seems like he might be that kind of kid.

Dave

Dave Markowitz
September 23, 2003, 09:15 AM
nsf003,

I think you did the right thing.

ojibweindian
September 23, 2003, 10:03 AM
nsf003, you did good.

For all you other "brave" souls, think about this; at o-dark-thirty, it's gonna be a while before animal control shows up. How many of you want a pissed-off dog in your back yard until Mr. Dog Catcher shows up?

Ari
September 23, 2003, 01:11 PM
Wether it was his parents decision or not, someone with a clear mind should have known better. I don't understand that you guys expected him to handle the situation properly, yet he wasn't empowered enough to give his parents advise???? I don't know about your family, but growing up my parents respected my decisions/advise as well, and took them with serious consideration. If they didn't know any better I would have told them to come inside and call the animal control while keeping watch on the dogs condition. If anything, they could have made it worst by either botching the rescue attempt and potentially drowning the dog, or prevoking the dog to attack and then be placed in a situation that he would not have be able to handle properly. Just to play hero.

This is a prime example of the #1 rule I remember when learning martial arts. At all cost, if given the "choice" try to resolve the problem peacefully first, and keep from having to use any of my training. Then and only then when you are "forced" into a situation should you act with out hesitation. I'm all for that. These are our youths, I may not be his parents, but I beleive it takes a village to raise a child. So I'm not trying to scold him like his parent, just a little brotherly advise is all.

So NSF, I'm not flaming you or anything little bro, just offering food for thought. I'm sure when you typed this post you were some what soliciting advise and/or review of your actions, so I hope you can take this criticism "constructively" and not think I'm just out bashing you bro. I know we can't all act accordingly to stressful situations, me included, and it's easier to say after the fact, but I hope you can take some of this and put it in the back of your head anyhow. Glad everything worked out for you and your family.

Bluesbear: "As to the rest of the armchair quarterbacks..."

If I'm the quarterback, you must be the cheerleader....
:rolleyes:

A couple of things. I KNOW first hand what I dog can do to you. Me and my little brother were mauled from a couple of disoriented German Shepards back in my paperboy days. We even made the front page of our local papers. So I'm not talking out of my ??? here. I know very well the capability of a dog.
Second, "Hoping" and "acting" are two totally different things.

If your all for RKBA and keeping the 2nd amendment we need to be able to advise our "own", or else the Anti's will do it for us. This could have been a decision that could put more leverage the Anti's could have used shoud this situation have gotten ugly. That may mean that sometimes taking the minority, and point out things some people don't necessarily want to hear or say. Besides, if this is a view a pro 2A guy is taking, what the hell do you think a blissninny is going to think. If that's all it takes I'm all for it, and you can flame me all ya'll like.

ysr_racer
September 23, 2003, 01:39 PM
I don't know about your family, but growing up my parents respected my decisions/advise as well, and took them with serious consideration.

That's a joke, right? My parents taught / told me that until you're 25 years old and living on your own, your opinions are invalid.

And you know what, they were right.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 01:57 PM
Why would you call how my parents raised me a joke? Treat them like an adult, and they could act like one. I guess I was fortunate enough to be raised differently. My parents never did any of that goo goo gaa gaa stuff to me. Even as a child I was talked to properly. They even advocated against any of the family talking to me in such a fashion. They made me manage my own money at a very young age, I was the only 8 year old with my own checking account under my mothers name that she gave permission for me to access my account. Gave me the decision on everything and I followed through with them, good or bad, I learned that way. They never made me feel like my advise and/or decision was "childish" but it's not like they didn't solicit advise of their own to help me form a better idea, they just wanted me to decide on my own. And made me follow through with them. Guess that's the reason I saved up and bought my own car at 14.5 after working for my uncle on his farm working 12 hours a day, graduated 2 years early, moved out on my own at 17 while paying for my OWN college tuition and bought my own house (entirely on my own) at 22 after funding my own wedding that same year. Also the reason why my parents were not reluctant on getting me my own handgun at 14 and allowed for me to keep in my room, which I still have today with out a single ND. You can say it helped me be a little more independant.

We expect our kids to responsibly handle a life altering tool like a gun but can't take into consideration their opinions or at least empower them enough? Making them to feel as though their thoughts/advise is not welcomed??? Treat him like a child, and he will act as such.

Geech
September 23, 2003, 02:05 PM
At all cost, if given the "choice" try to resolve the problem peacefully first, and keep from having to use any of my training.

I believe that is exactly what happened. He never even had to fire the shotgun.

Kharn
September 23, 2003, 02:09 PM
nsf003:
Was the chambered round the only one in the shotgun, or did you have more in the magazine? I'd be a little leery of confronting a dog with only one shot (even from a shotgun), due to all the posts of dogs not knowing they're supposed to be dead after being shot and continuing to munch on whatever they get their mouth around.

Kharn

Keith
September 23, 2003, 02:09 PM
That's a joke, right? My parents taught / told me that until you're 25 years old and living on your own, your opinions are invalid.

Tell that to some of those 18 year olds in Iraq right now.

This kid did good. I'd feel safe with him protecting my back in a "situation".

Keith

capt. Nemo
September 23, 2003, 02:11 PM
NSF,

Good job. Regardless of who anybody SHOULD have called, you prepared for an eventuality that, thankfully, never occurred. If that pooch had chewed up your Mom while you ran back into the house to retrieve your loudenboomer you'd have thought about it for the rest of your life. Having it there with you was prudent.

Jeez, guys, I put my seat belt on even though I'm relatively sure I'm not going to have a wreck. This kid didn't come out and say "Go ahead dog...make my day"! He just prepared for the worst. If they had called animal control - which in my neighborhood is a hit or miss proposition - and the dog had drowned while they waited one of you guys probably would have wanted to have him fined for cruelty to animals.

Control the situation. Don't be "forced" into a situation, as recommended by someone here. That big brown dog may have been "disoriented" like the German Shepards that chewed Ari's butt up.

Just my two cents worth...

Buck

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:12 PM
Your missing the point though. You guys see that it did end well. But what if it hadn't? He "placed" himself in that situation. A situation that should he should never had been in, in the first place is my whole point. Even if he was properly equiped, and had all the training in the world. The wiser decision is still to not be placed in that situation.

Anyone that has attended a CCW class want to back me on this?? It's called being situationally aware, and not putting yourself in a hairy situation in the first place that you have to resort to your gun. Do you go to the shady part of town unncessarily just because you CCW?????

It's like saying " yeah, I went down the wrong way of a one way street, but I didn't kill anyone"

What if I held a loaded gun to my head with my finger on the trigger? I mean, it didn't go off....

So... No, that isn't what happened.

Geech
September 23, 2003, 02:16 PM
It's interesting that you thing having a shotgun ready just in case is tantamount to putting a loaded gun against your head. That sounds remarkably "anti" to me. Either way, it strikes me that this is a fundamental difference in philosophy that won't be resolved on any message board. You conintue to believe what you will, and I'll continue to believe the kid did ok.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:21 PM
That isn't what I'm saying. READ it slower or have someone translate it for you. My point was that just because nothing happened from a poor decision, doesn't make it rite. NOT comparing it to having the shot gun at ready as you took from it.:rolleyes:

Don't put words into my mouth.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:28 PM
"kid didn't come out and say "Go ahead dog...make my day"! He just prepared for the worst. "

But my point was that he didn't "have" to prepare for jack. Prepare for a situation that you voluteered yourself for?????

My line of thinking is, I prepare for things I have no control of. Not something I "force" myself into. I beleive that's call pre-meditated.

Balog
September 23, 2003, 02:28 PM
As I understand it, his parents tried to get the dog off of the pool cover because A) the dog was likely to drown and B) it was destroying their property.
Secondly, the situation was already underway when he became involved.

Good job nsf. I wish I'd been that responsible and levelheaded when I was 16:rolleyes: I too find my Mossie 500A a comforting presence.

And ysr: just because you had no worthwhile thoughts until you were 25(:eek: ) doesn't mean it is impossible for anyone else to have done so.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:31 PM
yeah, he did do good. All I'm saying is that he could have done better. For anyone not understanding what I'm trying to get across, scroll up to the top of the page and read " The Highroad ".

Keith
September 23, 2003, 02:34 PM
He "placed" himself in that situation. A situation that should he should never had been in, in the first place is my whole point.

There was a dog in the pool. They rescued the dog. The boy was also ready to shoot if the dog didn't appreciate the rescue.

Do you have to call 911 for every little event in your life? Is there nothing you could handle on your own without calling the "authorities"? I'm sure a pair of cops could have handled the situation, and very likely in the same way - but why? Why bother a cop with a silly thing like this?

Let the cops chase bad guys and let homeowners take care of dogs in the pool.

Keith

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:36 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but I'd like everyone that has responded here with a "atta boy" to answer this question.

If you CCW, do you go to places you normally wouldn't go (read, very shady, ghetto, full of potential muggers) without a gun?

I'd also like to say, this thread has been kept relatively civil so far. Let's not get into calling names, attack the subject, not me personally.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:40 PM
" There was a dog in the pool. They rescued the dog. The boy was also ready to shoot if the dog didn't appreciate the rescue.

Do you have to call 911 for every little event in your life? Is there nothing you could handle on your own without calling the "authorities"? I'm sure a pair of cops could have handled the situation, and very likely in the same way - but why? Why bother a cop with a silly thing like this?

Let the cops chase bad guys and let homeowners take care of dogs in the pool.

Keith"

I never said call the police, I said animal control. Even then if he did call the police, they would have been alot more prepared to handle the situation, if they didn't feel comfortable handling it, they would have called the approriate parties. Either case it address the most important factor, keep yourself out of a bad situation. It would have been easier to deal with a dog drowning in your pool than to know you contributed to botching the rescue attempt, or accidentally shooting one of your parents. Who here can definatly say he was %100 that he would NOT have shot his parent?? Not a bet I'd be willing to make, nor a situation that would have even prompted such a decision.

Keith
September 23, 2003, 02:45 PM
Sorry! My reply was a little more cutting than it needed to be.

I really do have a problem with people who think every issue should be handled with a call to the "authorities". And you see that even here on THR where you'd think (hope) people would be a bit more self-reliant.
You don't need to call a wildlife agency when you have a raccoon in your trash can. You don't need to call a lawyer when your neighbor damages your property - talk to the neighbor first. You don't need to call 911 when you hear a noise at night - check it out first.
And you sure don't need to call 911 when a dog falls in your pool! Get the dog out (carefully) and send it on its way.

Deal with life on your own.

Keith

Balog
September 23, 2003, 02:45 PM
No Ari, you aren't getting it. He DIDN'T put himself in that situation. His parents were IN a situation and he covered their butts. And I find it extremely presumptious to second-guess his parents. Maybe they don't have an animal control department that responds at all hours. When I lived with my parents, animal control might show up several hours later, or they might not. Maybe they wanted to save their property from destruction, or save the dog from drowning.

Edit: Sorry if this is perceived as a personal attack. But I don't feel I'm attacking you anymore than you're attacking nsf's parents.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:46 PM
I'm not out here intentially ragging on him just to rag on him. Just shedding some light here on an angle no one seems to be comfortable expressing. I know this is a place to be amongst friends, and a pat on the back is good. I'm not forcing him to react the way I'd like. He can take from this what ever he wants. I'm more than man enough to fully express when I am wrong, but so far not a single response has pushed me in that direction, but only strengthens it. Beleive me, I'm not closed minded. If someone can show me an angle I haven't already thought of, I'd be more than happy to entertain the thought. I really don't want a pissing contest here, but I'm not going to back down just because I'm the minority either.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
" No Ari, you aren't getting it. He DIDN'T put himself in that situation. His parents were IN a situation and he covered their butts. And I find it extremely presumptious to second-guess his parents. Maybe they don't have an animal control department that responds at all hours. When I lived with my parents, animal control might show up several hours later, or they might not. Maybe they wanted to save their property from destruction, or save the dog from drowning. "

But it was a situation with an out, they weren't trapped back there with the pooch were they? I must have missed that part.

Keith
September 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
It would have been easier to deal with a dog drowning in your pool than to know you contributed to botching the rescue attempt

Nope. I'm not going to let some big brown dog drown in my pool while I call "animal control" in the middle of the night. And I hope if my dog ends up in some situation like that, somebody with enough self reliance to deal with the situation will help him out.

Keith

Correia
September 23, 2003, 02:51 PM
In my opinion NSF did just fine.

I don't see the controversy.

His parents created the situation. He just prepared himself in case of a worst case scenario. Seems very sensible to me.

He didn't shoot. And it sounds like he didn't want to unless it was absolutely neccesary. No Walter Mitty fantasy there. Also as for his use of o'dark thirty, big stinking deal. I grew up using that as a dairy farmer, not a Navy SEAL. :p

Look, in most of the rural parts of the country, "animal control" consists of you and your 12 guage. Where I grew up, if we had called the county to come and take care of a stray dog they would have responded "What? Too lazy to do it yourself? Shoot the damn thing."

My only caution would be that he should have loaded more than one shell. Dogs can be extreamly tough.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:52 PM
" Sorry! My reply was a little more cutting than it needed to be.

I really do have a problem with people who think every issue should be handled with a call to the "authorities". And you see that even here on THR where you'd think (hope) people would be a bit more self-reliant.
You don't need to call a wildlife agency when you have a raccoon in your trash can. You don't need to call a lawyer when your neighbor damages your property - talk to the neighbor first. You don't need to call 911 when you hear a noise at night - check it out first.
And you sure don't need to call 911 when a dog falls in your pool! Get the dog out (carefully) and send it on its way.

Deal with life on your own."

I do the same thing. I do as much of what I can do safely on my own. But when it comes down to me "having" to resort to a gun. Then maybe that situation could have been something better handled by someone that could have handled that situation without one. I do see what your saying though. If my dog was drowning I too would hope someone would save it. But if it fought them off and barked and bit them, I would understand why they decided to have animal control handle it, even if it meant him dying. And I love my dog.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 02:58 PM
I'm waiting on the response to my question, especially the more vocal group of you, of whether or not you go to places you normally don't go to with out a CCW.

Saying that animal control this and that in my neck of the woods is such and such and is slow and yada yada is balogna. He never even tried so how do we know? We are talking about THIS situation aren't we?

ojibweindian
September 23, 2003, 03:00 PM
Ari, I have a CCW, and I go wherever I went before I CCW'ed.

Just to let you know, I don't do bars or go to strip joints, etc. I do, occasionally, have to drive through "seedy" parts of Huntsville.

I am in agrement with Keith concerning self-reliance.

We Americans, generally speaking, are becoming a nation of :cuss: :cuss: passive, boot licking cowards. How pathetic.

I say again, GOOD JOB nsf003!

Keith
September 23, 2003, 03:04 PM
Saying that animal control this and that in my neck of the woods is such and such and is slow and yada yada is balogna. He never even tried so how do we know?

Actually, if I lived in a place where they had animal control on call for things like this I would NEVER call them night or day. I would do nothing to justify such a waste of taxpayer money.
If people can't deal with the occasional stray dog or raccoon in the trash on their own, they have no right to ask me to pay for their fear and insecurity.

Keith

Balog
September 23, 2003, 03:07 PM
I'm waiting on the response to my question, especially the more vocal group of you, of whether or not you go to places you normally don't go to with out a CCW.

He didn't do anything like that. Your analogy is flawed. This situation is more like his parents running out of gas in a bad part of town, and nsf arming himself before taking care of them. I didn't answer the question, because it wasn't valid or relevant.

Saying that animal control this and that in my neck of the woods is such and such and is slow and yada yada is balogna. He never even tried so how do we know? We are talking about THIS situation aren't we?


I'm saying maybe his parents didn't try because it was a foregone conclusion it wouldn't work. You say they had a reasonable alternative to what they did, I'm saying they may not have. And no offence, but I would feel rather cowardly letting an animal destroy my property while cowering in my house waiting for Animal Control show up, not to mention watching a dog die a slow, painful death. Some things are worth taking risks for. This sounds like one of them.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:08 PM
Ari, I have a CCW, and I go wherever I went before I CCW'ed.

Just to let you know, I don't do bars or go to strip joints, etc. I do, occasionally, have to drive through "seedy" parts of Huntsville.

I am in agrement with Keith concerning self-reliance.

We Americans, generally speaking, are becoming a nation of passive, boot licking cowards. How pathetic.

I say again, GOOD JOB nsf003!

So you are saying that you don't go into potential hazardous places that you didn't CCW correct? Good choice.
And your saying you'd be willing to risk the life of you and your family just for the sake of not being called a coward? I think that's foolish. It's not about being afraid, not at all. It's all about keeping you and yours safe. Plain and simple. If it hadn't come to a situaton where he feared for his llife and the life of his family, I'd be all for rescueing the animal right then and there. Otherwise, calling the animal folks would just be me seeing my tax dollars at work. It's not like it's unncessary for god sake, that's what their job is " animal control" brought in when the public can not "safely" handle the situation on their own.

spacemanspiff
September 23, 2003, 03:09 PM
Just to let you know, I don't do bars or go to strip joints, etc.
what does that have to do with anything? are you saying that people who go to bars or strip joints are not as upright as you are? i'm confused. i go to strip joints, proudly i might add. nothing illegal or shady. nothing to be ashamed of. i go to bars occasionally, doesnt diminish my character at all.

what gives? do you discriminate those who do go to bars and strip joints? is this another urinating contest? cause if so, i already drained my kidneys earlier. :rolleyes:

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:11 PM
Bingo, what I was hoping you'd say...

"If people can't deal with the occasional stray dog or raccoon in the trash on their own, they have no right to ask me to pay for their fear and insecurity."

Was this situation the "occasional" stray dog or raccon in the trash problem??? NO this had the potetial of the animal KILLING (as many of you have already said) his parents. Apples and Oranges...

Quartus
September 23, 2003, 03:13 PM
nsf, ignore the idiots. You did just fine. You can carry a gun on my property anytime.

ojibweindian
September 23, 2003, 03:14 PM
Hey Keith

In my part of the Great Southern Boonies, people drop their mangy, unwanted currs off all the time. "Animal control", if they actually show up (they mostly don't) will charge $35 to take the damn thing off. I'm not paying $35 to haul off a stray, mangy mutt.

So, strays are dealt with in alternative fashion.

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:15 PM
And no offence, but I would feel rather cowardly letting an animal destroy my property while cowering in my house waiting for Animal Control show up, not to mention watching a dog die a slow, painful death.

It wouldn't be cowering if, as many have already expressed. This evil dog could have KILLED one of them, which is the justification ya'll used for the shotgun in the first place. It would be called using your head. Besides, what's more important, property or being alive?

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:18 PM
"nsf, ignore the idiots. You did just fine. You can carry a gun on my property anytime. "

Watch your mouth. Unless you can provide anything constructive to say don't resort to calling names and take pussy sucker punches like that.

Keith
September 23, 2003, 03:26 PM
This evil dog could have KILLED one of them

Are you suggesting it was some sort of terrorist dog? Or maybe it was a gangsta dog... Maybe it fell in the pool while it was casing the place prior to a burglary or kidnapping. Maybe it was going to pee in the rhododendrons and then run away with an evil laugh!

Nah, I think it was a big brown dog that was growling because it was stuck in a pool and frightened. Dogs will do that, even nice dogs.

Keith

Correia
September 23, 2003, 03:26 PM
Enough.

This thread has out lived its usefullness.

Balog
September 23, 2003, 03:26 PM
Enough already. Ari: you say it wouldn't be prudent or "worth it". We say it would be. Discussion over. We're hijacking nsf's thread, and it needs to stop.

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